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Retrospective charts: 25 years ago, really 'better' or 'worse'? |
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#1 |
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Retrospective charts: 25 years ago, really 'better' or 'worse'?
This was the top 40 a quarter of a century ago today:
1. Into The Groove - Madonna 2. Holiday - Madonna 3. I Got You Babe - UB40 & Chrissie Hynde 4. We Don't Need Another Hero - Tina Turner 5. Money For Nothing - Dire Straits 6. There Must Be An Angel - Eurythmics 7. White Wedding - Billy Idol 8. Drive - Cars 9. Running Up That Hill - Kate Bush 10. Don Quixote - Nik Kershaw 11. Say I'm Your Number One - Princess 12. Live Is Life - Opus 13. Excitable - Amazulu 14. Cherish - Kool & The Gang 15. Inbetween Days - Cure 16. Axel F - Harold Faltymeyer 17. Frankie - Sister Sledge 18. Living On Video - Trans-X 19. Crazy For You - Madonna 20. Glory Days - Bruce Springsteen 21. Round And Around - Jaki Graham 22. Let Me Be The One - 5 Star 23. Empty Rooms - Gary Moore 24. She Sells Sanctuary - Cult 25. Raspberry Beret - Prince 26. I Wonder If I Take You Home - Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam 27. You're The One For Me - D-Train 28. Take Me Home - Phil Collins 29. Goodbye Girl - Go West 30. My Toot Toot - Denise LaSalle 31. Dare Me - Pointer Sisters 32. In Your Car - Cool Notes 33. Tarzan Boy - Baltimora 34. Loving You - Feargal Sharkey 35. Secret - OMD 36. I'm On Fire/Born In The USA - Bruce Springsteen 37. Money's Too Tight To Mention - Simply Red 38. Rock 'N' Roll Children - Dio 39. Alone Without You - King 40. Takes A Little Time - Contrast So, albeit subjectively, has music really degenerated in the past 25 years? I've emboldened my favourites (I still 'like' several more), to illustrate that taste is completely subjective. To me these tracks stand up today, whereas others that were massive hits (eg Cherish, Axel F), I now find more than faintly embarrassing. The thing that strikes me is that, thinking back to that time, the music that was 25 years old then really would have sounded 'old-fashioned', whereas I don't think that is true for a lot of this stuff today. Within the top 40 25 years ago, I'd say there was a fair mix of dance, rock/indie, manufactured pop/novelty etc. The only under-represented genre (ie looking back now) is what we these days consider RnB. I think that what the above charts illustrate is that when people talk about things being 'better back then', that we have reached a point in popular music now where ultimately we can draw a line as to when 'back then' was. As I say, technically and culturally, it strikes me that the pop music charts haven't really moved on that much in the past quarter-century - especially so compared with how the music from 25 years earlier would have sounded in 1985. That's not to say that the music from 1960 would have been more 'primitive' or less 'good' - it's just that in terms of measurability, it did represent a completely different style and age, whereas I don't think this list does so anywhere near so much compared to today. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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I feel I should point out before we go any further, great thread.
Its interesting how many of the songs in that chart are generally memorable. Despite dross like 5 star there is quite a few genuine classic pop songs. Such as: Into The Groove - Madonna Holiday - Madonna We Don't Need Another Hero - Tina Turner Money For Nothing - Dire Straits There Must Be An Angel - Eurythmics White Wedding - Billy Idol I'm On Fire/Born In The USA - Bruce Springsteen Money's Too Tight To Mention - Simply Red These are songs that will are genuinely still listened to 25 years later. I don't honesly belive Flo Rider or the Saturdays latest offerings, for example, will be remembered 25 years later. And songs by genuinely amazing artists such as Inbetween Days - Cure She Sells Sanctuary - Cult And special mention to Kate Bush. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Wow, I never knew Madonna had occupied the number one and two slots in her chart history! And she's got another one in the top 20, that's quite an achievement.
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#4 |
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Quote:
I feel I should point out before we go any further, great thread.
Its interesting how many of the songs in that chart are generally memorable. Despite dross like 5 star there is quite a few genuine classic pop songs. Such as: Into The Groove - Madonna Holiday - Madonna We Don't Need Another Hero - Tina Turner Money For Nothing - Dire Straits There Must Be An Angel - Eurythmics White Wedding - Billy Idol I'm On Fire/Born In The USA - Bruce Springsteen Money's Too Tight To Mention - Simply Red These are songs that will are genuinely still listened to 25 years later. I don't honesly belive Flo Rider or the Saturdays latest offerings, for example, will be remembered 25 years later. And songs by genuinely amazing artists such as Inbetween Days - Cure She Sells Sanctuary - Cult And special mention to Kate Bush. Of this weeks top 40 I think I may possibly still remember Alejandro in 25 years time (it feels like gaga could go madonna) and maybe at a push Kylie's "All the lovers" but that really feels like it for me at the moment! |
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#5 |
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It's always difficult to argue over "quality" but I think it's safe to stay there was more variety back in 1985. The Top 10 feels dominated by one genre at the moment.
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#6 |
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Wow, I hadn't quite expected such a variety of opinion in a short timeframe, TVM everyone. And yes, on reflection I think I do have to agree with some, that an outstanding factor is in fact a dearth of variety and solid technical construction in today's chart music.
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#7 |
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Quote:
Of this weeks top 40 I think I may possibly still remember Alejandro in 25 years time (it feels like gaga could go madonna) and maybe at a push Kylie's "All the lovers" but that really feels like it for me at the moment!
On Gaga, I don't buy the argument that she will be in the long term as big a deal as she is just now. The thing is that she has been "going madonna" from the start, but it seems to me she is just going over ground madonna covered 25 years ago. The controversy is almost literally the same as madonna and while there are very good songs there have been very average songs, If Madonna had arrived in the 80's and retraced the steps of artists from the early 60's she would not be rememered in the same way as she is now, Gaga has yet to do anything actually new, but its early days yet. |
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#8 |
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All the lovers is a wonderfull song, pop gold, and this is coming from someone who really isn't a Kylie fan.
On Gaga, I don't buy the argument that she will be in the long term as big a deal as she is just now. The thing is that she has been "going madonna" from the start, but it seems to me she is just going over ground madonna covered 25 years ago. The controversy is almost literally the same as madonna and while there are very good songs there have been very average songs, If Madonna had arrived in the 80's and retraced the steps of artists from the early 60's she would not be rememered in the same way as she is now, Gaga has yet to do anything actually new, but its early days yet. On the charts i love a fair few of the songs on the chart list! but in comparison i don't think MANY songs these days in the charts are going to be that memorable unless you are a fan really. I mean how many are going to remember Flo Rida's current #1 in 5 years let alone 25 plus?!?! Eminem and Riri are guaranteed to be remembered(i mean nearly 2 months in the top 10!! thats credit enough i think) and maybe Airplanes at a PUSH!! by BOB and Hayley and The Saturdays bless 'em could be remembered for Missing you if it does better, it is catchy and different! (i love their new EP Headlines, never was a fan beforehand). so that's 2 songs at a push that will be in long distance memory but time will tell
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#9 |
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The 1985 chart speaks for itself. Holiday, Into The Groove, We Don't Need Another Hero, Money For Nothing, to name but a few. All songs that are still played on radio today from artists who even the most casual of music fans would probably know. How many people are going to remember Flo Rida or the Saturdays for example in 25 years, let alone listen to their songs? Few, I suspect
That chart also has genuinely outstanding songs by the Cure, Kate Bush and the Cult. Nothing in today's chart comes close to any of those. Furthermore, there was a lot more variety back then and a lot less generic dance and RnB which is probably why so many songs from that chart still sound great even a quarter of a century on
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#10 |
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Songs don't seem to stand out these days and they're all performed by such and such feat. someone.
Give me the hits from yesteryear every time. They don't make music like they used to (I don't care that that makes me feel ancient when I say that!). |
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#11 |
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There is a temptation to hold the 85 chart up to any record exec who blames file sharing for the decline in single sales.
It may be a factor but the biggest factor is that the output is simply of a lower quality and this as in any other industry leads to falling sales. (I'm not trying to defend file sharing here, just trying to point out that its a lazy excuse by people not doing their jobs properly...) |
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#12 |
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Quote:
Songs don't seem to stand out these days and they're all performed by such and such feat. someone.
Give me the hits from yesteryear every time. They don't make music like they used to (I don't care that that makes me feel ancient when I say that!).
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#13 |
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So, albeit subjectively, has music really degenerated in the past 25 years?
No, but the importance of the singles chart has. Fewer people buy singles, and only pop fans of a certain type. That's why the current chart seems lower quality and less diverse. The singles chart has become a specialist dance/electro-pop chart, with a few other genres thrown in now and again. Fans of other types of music almost exclusively purchase albums. Most of the 1985 chart feels very 'old-fashioned' to me, but perhaps in a less extreme way than songs from 1960 would have sounded to someone in 1985. That's mainly down to the many pioneers in the '60s revolution though, rather than the 80s. Music has also changed in that artists are far less likely to attract large followings. Back then, you were limited to what was on the radio or the music shop stocked. Easy access to larger numbers of artists through Youtube, iTunes, Spotify, Myspace, last.fm, and Pandora, mean people have far greater choice than anyone in the 80s could have dreamed of. Wider exposure leads to a diffusion of music fans, and a diffusion of music fans means there are no new superstars with such enormous followings. The closest thing the 21st century has is Lady GaGa, but she's the first in a very long time. |
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#14 |
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Quote:
There is a temptation to hold the 85 chart up to any record exec who blames file sharing for the decline in single sales.
It may be a factor but the biggest factor is that the output is simply of a lower quality and this as in any other industry leads to falling sales. (I'm not trying to defend file sharing here, just trying to point out that its a lazy excuse by people not doing their jobs properly...) hmm... that chart IS 'better' then todays chart, because these were mainly genuine musicians who created a diverse range of styles. this was a chart before s/a/w made manufactured pop acceptable to a new generation. of course its subjective whether or not songs from today are better or worse, but from a creative and musical perspective id strongly suggest that todays charts lacks what that retro chart had . |
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#15 |
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Quote:
Music has also changed in that artists are far less likely to attract large followings. Back then, you were limited to what was on the radio or the music shop stocked. Easy access to larger numbers of artists through Youtube, iTunes, Spotify, Myspace, last.fm, and Pandora, mean people have far greater choice than anyone in the 80s could have dreamed of. Wider exposure leads to a diffusion of music fans, and a diffusion of music fans means there are no new superstars with such enormous followings. The closest thing the 21st century has is Lady GaGa, but she's the first in a very long time.
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#16 |
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I love a lot of music from 25 years ago... but I love a lot of stuff in the charts today too. There is a lot of rubbish, just as there was then.
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#17 |
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Whether music in the charts 25 years ago was "better" than today is a moot point as tastes change and any comparison is very subjective.
However what is clear from 25 years ago is how diverse the top 40 was then compared to now and that certainly isn't a change for the better. |
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#18 |
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It's always difficult to argue over "quality" but I think it's safe to stay there was more variety back in 1985. The Top 10 feels dominated by one genre at the moment.
The charts are too similar to the US-which is a shame-usually the UK leads the way. In terms of the current charts also, I dont think it's over run with Dance music of various types-its just seems to be one very particular sound that is aimed at a particular music buyer. In the early 90s, the charts where full of dance music of different types, House, US Garage, Techno, Jungle, all sorts. A lot of these genres still exist-but dont get a look in the UK commercially anymore. I still spend on around £20 every couple of weeks on US house music (new stuff -which used to be called US Garage in the 90s), but have to buy from American sites because ITunes are'nt stocking it-not even the UK acts who do this type of music. Not sure what thats's about but I think thats really bad that I am having to buy from the US, music by British acts who are;nt getting a look in over here. As for RnB, where this is actually quite a lot of it in the 1985 chart, such as Total Contrast, DTrain, Lisa Lisa,Jaki Graham, Cool Notes, even early 5 Star before they went all mainstream. It used to be called 'Soul and Funk'. R n B used to apply to more jazzy type artist but but the term was hijacked in the 90s by the mainstream. So that genre was well represented. Looking at the 1985, I was a teenager then-and I had bought 6 of the top 10 (including 1-4) and a total of 17 songs in the top 40!!! 12 of the songs I would still play today-the other 5 no way. And there are some songs in the chart which I did'nt buy but I think are great, such as Kate Bush. |
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#19 |
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1. Into The Groove - Madonna
2. Holiday - Madonna 3. I Got You Babe - UB40 & Chrissie Hynde 4. We Don't Need Another Hero - Tina Turner 5. Money For Nothing - Dire Straits 6. There Must Be An Angel - Eurythmics 7. White Wedding - Billy Idol 8. Drive - Cars 9. Running Up That Hill - Kate Bush 10. Don Quixote - Nik Kershaw Thats a pretty good top ten, definitely was a good week, but never remembered Madonna have numbers 1 & 2 at the same time. |
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#20 |
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I'm 26 and I know a lot of those songs. Now, I don't think it's because I listened to the chart when I was 1! It's clearly because songs because a lot of those songs had lastability whereas now most of the chart is throwaway nonsense,and like someone said dominated by one genre - that awful excuse for "R&B" which has been done to death.
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#21 |
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Quote:
I love a lot of music from 25 years ago... but I love a lot of stuff in the charts today too. There is a lot of rubbish, just as there was then.
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#22 |
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The likes of Duran Duran, Queen, Simple Minds and Joy Division vs Flo Rida, Roll Deep, Lady Gaga and Alexandra Burke? Ooh, tough one
Sorry, but the 80s was FAR superior. There are some decent acts in the charts at the moment such as Kasabian, Mark Ronson, Plan-B, The Editors, Eliza Doolittle and Paloma Faith but I absolutely cannot stand the amount of R&B and Grime / Hip Hop music in the charts at the moment (except Jay-Z, who I quite like). It all sounds the same and none of it is particularly good. It's a shame, because if you'd asked me what I thought of mainstream hip-hop / R&B in the 1990s I would have told you how great it all was (Notorious B.I.G, Dr Dre, early efforts by Jay-Z and Snoop Dogg, to name but a few). |
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#23 |
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The likes of Duran Duran, Queen, Simple Minds and Joy Division vs Flo Rida, Roll Deep, Lady Gaga and Alexandra Burke? Ooh, tough one
Sorry, but the 80s was FAR superior. ). |
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#24 |
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Quote:
This was the top 40 a quarter of a century ago today:
1. Into The Groove - Madonna 2. Holiday - Madonna 3. I Got You Babe - UB40 & Chrissie Hynde 4. We Don't Need Another Hero - Tina Turner 5. Money For Nothing - Dire Straits 6. There Must Be An Angel - Eurythmics 7. White Wedding - Billy Idol 8. Drive - Cars 9. Running Up That Hill - Kate Bush 10. Don Quixote - Nik Kershaw 11. Say I'm Your Number One - Princess 12. Live Is Life - Opus 14. Cherish - Kool & The Gang 15. Inbetween Days - Cure 16. Axel F - Harold Faltymeyer 17. Frankie - Sister Sledge 19. Crazy For You - Madonna 20. Glory Days - Bruce Springsteen 21. Round And Around - Jaki Graham 22. Let Me Be The One - 5 Star 23. Empty Rooms - Gary Moore 24. She Sells Sanctuary - Cult 25. Raspberry Beret - Prince 26. I Wonder If I Take You Home - Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam 27. You're The One For Me - D-Train 28. Take Me Home - Phil Collins 29. Goodbye Girl - Go West 30. My Toot Toot - Denise LaSalle 33. Tarzan Boy - Baltimora 35. Secret - OMD 36. I'm On Fire/Born In The USA - Bruce Springsteen 37. Money's Too Tight To Mention - Simply Red
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#25 |
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These are songs that will are genuinely still listened to 25 years later. I don't honesly belive Flo Rider or the Saturdays latest offerings, for example, will be remembered 25 years later.
My thoughts exactly when I saw the list.
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