AV Receiver Upscaling

gemma-the-husky · 23-08-2010, 23:46

Thinking of getting an AV receiver

Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources

I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well.

and Q2
do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need.

RobAnt · 24-08-2010, 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources

I'm not sure they can. Maybe some of the more expensive ones, but generally it's signal type in->signal type out. So if you connect something using component video, you might also need to connect the component video out to the TV too.

Quote:

I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well.

See above. You still need to connect the sources to the receiver, of course, so while there is only a single hdmi connection to the TV, you still have all the cables coming from the source devices to the receiver. Great if your TV only has one HDMI input, but you are actually ADDING one cable to the number of cables required (for each video type).

Of course it's great if you have multiple HDMI enabled sources that host high definition audio, such as Blu-Ray player, otherwise direct connection to the TV and an optical or coax connection to the receiver might be a better solution if you simply want to turn on the TV and watch/listen to (yeuch spit) eastenders (note, no capital e from me).

Quote:

and Q2
do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need.

Always double check this functionality is possible too.

As a general rule, AV receivers filter out the audio from HDMI and pass on the video only.

What sort of budget do you have for this AV Receiver (excluding speakers)?

Glawster2002 · 24-08-2010, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

Thinking of getting an AV receiver

Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources

I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well.

and Q2
do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need.

My Denon AVR-3310 is a "yes" to both Q1 and Q2.

I use it for my Wii, which has an RGB output, and it works fine.

Nigel Goodwin · 24-08-2010, 08:59

Basically anything with an HDMI output will probably have an upscaler (even VCR/DVD combi's do), but the TV upscales anyway, and may well be better than a cheap external one.

c4rv · 24-08-2010, 10:31

I had a denon unit for a couple of weeks to play with (dont know model number) and yes to both questions. All output was passed to single HDMI port, it upscaled SD video, about on par with my upscaling on my LG TV and upscaled SD programs on C4 HD.

Second it worked fine when on standby mode.

Deacon1972 · 24-08-2010, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Basically anything with an HDMI output will probably have an upscaler (even VCR/DVD combi's do), but the TV upscales anyway, and may well be better than a cheap external one.

Anything capable of video playback/HDMI will probably have an upscaler, but this is not true for av receivers.

Entry models and some mid range receivers do not upscale, but have HDMI connectivity.

It's normally higher end models that come with upscaling/video conversion.

My Denon has HDMI but no upscaling, but does video conversion and HD audio (multichannel PCM).

Deacon1972 · 24-08-2010, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

As a general rule, AV receivers filter out the audio from HDMI and pass on the video only.

I wouldn't have said it was a general rule, just a product made for a price.

Generally it was only the entry models that just switched the video, only mid/high end models carried audio/video over HDMI. Not the case today, even entry model receivers have HD audio decoding and carry audio/video over HDMI.

Deacon1972 · 24-08-2010, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

Thinking of getting an AV receiver

Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources

I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well.

and Q2
do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need.

Q1) Video upconversion - can be useful at times, but it depends on the quality of the chip, but it's generally advised to connect directly to source or use video switching (no need for TV remote) as there is no loss in quality. I have seen component -> HDMI on an Onkyo 5xx series and it looked terrible.

What equipment have you got to connect?

Q2) HDMI v1.4 supports audio pass-through, there are some receivers that are v1.4 compliant and allow audio pass-through, you would have to check the manufacturers specs to see if this has been included.

gemma-the-husky · 24-08-2010, 15:46

thanks for all the thoughts

I am looking to spend no more than £300. I think on the receiver. I can hold off spending on speakers for the moment,- I have loads of decent hifi speakers, although I may need a sub. I also have a little used all in one box, as it only has a DVD but no other inputs, but I could use those as well.

I dont suppose the connectivity its so important - without being sexist, I was thinking more to help my wife - so if she just wanted to watch a bit of telly, she didnt need an electronics A level to get a signal thorugh to the screen!

Actually, been looking to see what discounted Sony or Onkyo stuff was available (Richers/SuperFi etc)

------
Actually I was in a new Curry's hyperrmarket last night, where they had some impressive (to me) demo stuff, which has proddded me along.

Out of interest they also had a Sky 3D demo on - which was fascinating, and far better than I expected.

Deacon1972 · 24-08-2010, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

thanks for all the thoughts

I am looking to spend no more than £300. I think on the receiver. I can hold off spending on speakers for the moment,- I have loads of decent hifi speakers, although I may need a sub. I also have a little used all in one box, as it only has a DVD but no other inputs, but I could use those as well.

I dont suppose the connectivity its so important - without being sexist, I was thinking more to help my wife - so if she just wanted to watch a bit of telly, she didnt need an electronics A level to get a signal thorugh to the screen!

I think you would have struggled find a good selection of receivers that support video upconversion for £300.

Looking at your services you may be better off connecting directly to the TV, Freesat/Sky use scart and have scart control, meaning it will auto switch when you turn them on.

AV receivers rarely use scart, they use composite/s-video/component/HDMI - so you would have needed to get purpose built leads like scart to s-video or use an scart (rgb) to component converter.

Onkyo seem to be getting very good reviews, have a look at the 308/508.

PlayerUK · 25-08-2010, 16:26

If you a Richer Sounds near you they are clearing out the Onkyo 607 for £250.

Two optical and two coax audio inputs.
6 HDMI inputs.
Component input.
Upscales.
There is a way of passing HDMI audio through in standby (apparently it's not obvious of how to do it but it's either on here or AVForums) but I haven't tried it to see.

gemma-the-husky · 27-08-2010, 22:26

yes, i saw that (the Onkyo) - they have one in brum, which is my nearest. I just need capital expenditure authorisation from my wife now.

PlayerUK · 29-08-2010, 15:44

If you can get the 'authorisation' I don't think you'll be disappointed with it's performance. Although is my first foray into a full AVR, so I don't really have anything to compare it against, I am impressed with it's performance.

When I first powered it up I was concerned over the level that had to be set just to get a normal listening volume, thinking that it's max output was going to be nowhere near what is claimed for it. I can honestly say that I haven't been able to take it to the max just to find out how loud it will go.

If there is any negative it would be why have included an analogue radio tuner when DAB has been around for quite a while now.

Nigel Goodwin · 29-08-2010, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayerUK

If there is any negative it would be why have included an analogue radio tuner when DAB has been around for quite a while now.

Because it's a 'quality' receiver, and FM radio is far higher quality than DAB.

Also, DAB is pretty country specific, so it would mean different models for different countries, it's not so big a problem until you get to DAB.

PlayerUK · 29-08-2010, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Because it's a 'quality' receiver, and FM radio is far higher quality than DAB.

Also, DAB is pretty country specific, so it would mean different models for different countries, it's not so big a problem until you get to DAB.

Thank you for the explanation.

In which case I withdraw my only negative comment

Glawster2002 · 31-08-2010, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Because it's a 'quality' receiver, and FM radio is far higher quality than DAB.

Also, DAB is pretty country specific, so it would mean different models for different countries, it's not so big a problem until you get to DAB.

I think a better option is to include a networking capability so Internet Radio is available. Then you really do have global choice!

23-08-2010, 23:46	#1
gemma-the-husky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 17,858	AV Receiver Upscaling Thinking of getting an AV receiver Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well. and Q2 do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need.

24-08-2010, 02:31	#2
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Quote: Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources I'm not sure they can. Maybe some of the more expensive ones, but generally it's signal type in->signal type out. So if you connect something using component video, you might also need to connect the component video out to the TV too. Quote: I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well. See above. You still need to connect the sources to the receiver, of course, so while there is only a single hdmi connection to the TV, you still have all the cables coming from the source devices to the receiver. Great if your TV only has one HDMI input, but you are actually ADDING one cable to the number of cables required (for each video type). Of course it's great if you have multiple HDMI enabled sources that host high definition audio, such as Blu-Ray player, otherwise direct connection to the TV and an optical or coax connection to the receiver might be a better solution if you simply want to turn on the TV and watch/listen to (yeuch spit) eastenders (note, no capital e from me). Quote: and Q2 do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need. Always double check this functionality is possible too. As a general rule, AV receivers filter out the audio from HDMI and pass on the video only. What sort of budget do you have for this AV Receiver (excluding speakers)?

24-08-2010, 08:35	#3
Glawster2002 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire Posts: 10,404	Quote: Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky Thinking of getting an AV receiver Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well. and Q2 do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need. My Denon AVR-3310 is a "yes" to both Q1 and Q2. I use it for my Wii, which has an RGB output, and it works fine.

24-08-2010, 08:59	#4
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Basically anything with an HDMI output will probably have an upscaler (even VCR/DVD combi's do), but the TV upscales anyway, and may well be better than a cheap external one.

24-08-2010, 10:31	#5
c4rv Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 16,218	I had a denon unit for a couple of weeks to play with (dont know model number) and yes to both questions. All output was passed to single HDMI port, it upscaled SD video, about on par with my upscaling on my LG TV and upscaled SD programs on C4 HD. Second it worked fine when on standby mode.

24-08-2010, 10:34	#6
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Basically anything with an HDMI output will probably have an upscaler (even VCR/DVD combi's do), but the TV upscales anyway, and may well be better than a cheap external one. Anything capable of video playback/HDMI will probably have an upscaler, but this is not true for av receivers. Entry models and some mid range receivers do not upscale, but have HDMI connectivity. It's normally higher end models that come with upscaling/video conversion. My Denon has HDMI but no upscaling, but does video conversion and HD audio (multichannel PCM).

24-08-2010, 10:46	#7
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by RobAnt As a general rule, AV receivers filter out the audio from HDMI and pass on the video only. I wouldn't have said it was a general rule, just a product made for a price. Generally it was only the entry models that just switched the video, only mid/high end models carried audio/video over HDMI. Not the case today, even entry model receivers have HD audio decoding and carry audio/video over HDMI.

24-08-2010, 11:58	#8
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky Thinking of getting an AV receiver Q1. How important is it that it offers HDMI output for non HDMI sources I can see it's very friendly, in that you only need a single connection to the TV, and you dont need to mess with a TV remote as well. and Q2 do many receivers let a signal through to the TV without being switched on - so you can just watch TV if thats all you need. Q1) Video upconversion - can be useful at times, but it depends on the quality of the chip, but it's generally advised to connect directly to source or use video switching (no need for TV remote) as there is no loss in quality. I have seen component -> HDMI on an Onkyo 5xx series and it looked terrible. What equipment have you got to connect? Q2) HDMI v1.4 supports audio pass-through, there are some receivers that are v1.4 compliant and allow audio pass-through, you would have to check the manufacturers specs to see if this has been included.

24-08-2010, 15:46	#9
gemma-the-husky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 17,858	thanks for all the thoughts I am looking to spend no more than £300. I think on the receiver. I can hold off spending on speakers for the moment,- I have loads of decent hifi speakers, although I may need a sub. I also have a little used all in one box, as it only has a DVD but no other inputs, but I could use those as well. I dont suppose the connectivity its so important - without being sexist, I was thinking more to help my wife - so if she just wanted to watch a bit of telly, she didnt need an electronics A level to get a signal thorugh to the screen! Actually, been looking to see what discounted Sony or Onkyo stuff was available (Richers/SuperFi etc) ------ Actually I was in a new Curry's hyperrmarket last night, where they had some impressive (to me) demo stuff, which has proddded me along. Out of interest they also had a Sky 3D demo on - which was fascinating, and far better than I expected.

24-08-2010, 17:31	#10
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky thanks for all the thoughts I am looking to spend no more than £300. I think on the receiver. I can hold off spending on speakers for the moment,- I have loads of decent hifi speakers, although I may need a sub. I also have a little used all in one box, as it only has a DVD but no other inputs, but I could use those as well. I dont suppose the connectivity its so important - without being sexist, I was thinking more to help my wife - so if she just wanted to watch a bit of telly, she didnt need an electronics A level to get a signal thorugh to the screen! I think you would have struggled find a good selection of receivers that support video upconversion for £300. Looking at your services you may be better off connecting directly to the TV, Freesat/Sky use scart and have scart control, meaning it will auto switch when you turn them on. AV receivers rarely use scart, they use composite/s-video/component/HDMI - so you would have needed to get purpose built leads like scart to s-video or use an scart (rgb) to component converter. Onkyo seem to be getting very good reviews, have a look at the 308/508.

25-08-2010, 16:26	#11
PlayerUK Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 702	If you a Richer Sounds near you they are clearing out the Onkyo 607 for £250. Two optical and two coax audio inputs. 6 HDMI inputs. Component input. Upscales. There is a way of passing HDMI audio through in standby (apparently it's not obvious of how to do it but it's either on here or AVForums) but I haven't tried it to see.

27-08-2010, 22:26	#12
gemma-the-husky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 17,858	yes, i saw that (the Onkyo) - they have one in brum, which is my nearest. I just need capital expenditure authorisation from my wife now.

29-08-2010, 15:44	#13
PlayerUK Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 702	If you can get the 'authorisation' I don't think you'll be disappointed with it's performance. Although is my first foray into a full AVR, so I don't really have anything to compare it against, I am impressed with it's performance. When I first powered it up I was concerned over the level that had to be set just to get a normal listening volume, thinking that it's max output was going to be nowhere near what is claimed for it. I can honestly say that I haven't been able to take it to the max just to find out how loud it will go. If there is any negative it would be why have included an analogue radio tuner when DAB has been around for quite a while now.

29-08-2010, 15:47	#14
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by PlayerUK If there is any negative it would be why have included an analogue radio tuner when DAB has been around for quite a while now. Because it's a 'quality' receiver, and FM radio is far higher quality than DAB. Also, DAB is pretty country specific, so it would mean different models for different countries, it's not so big a problem until you get to DAB.

29-08-2010, 16:09	#15
PlayerUK Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 702	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Because it's a 'quality' receiver, and FM radio is far higher quality than DAB. Also, DAB is pretty country specific, so it would mean different models for different countries, it's not so big a problem until you get to DAB. Thank you for the explanation. In which case I withdraw my only negative comment

31-08-2010, 13:17	#16
Glawster2002 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire Posts: 10,404	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Because it's a 'quality' receiver, and FM radio is far higher quality than DAB. Also, DAB is pretty country specific, so it would mean different models for different countries, it's not so big a problem until you get to DAB. I think a better option is to include a networking capability so Internet Radio is available. Then you really do have global choice!

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AV Receiver Upscaling