I just dont get ITV and there drama policy.

There 9pm success in the past has always been built on mass audience dramas that can return every year as 12 parters (eg London Burning, Peak Practice, Soldier Soldier, Bad Girls), and have a loyal audience as they become part of the tv land scape.

Now looking at there recent drama commissions, there is very few dramas that fit in this mould. They seem very much dramas that could possibly return for 4 episodes a year, and dont really have a premise that could last for 10 years. There main chance was L&O: UK, and instead of trying to build it an audience by showing a block of 12 episodes, they divide the series up and move it around. If they had shown it in a block of 12 episodes it shows a message to the audience that they have confidence in the series, and to some extent watching a show is a habit.

I dont know how to explain this to make sense. Look at BBC dramas, they all have a premise, but they are backgrounds to some extent to the drama. So look at spooks, the basis is a spy drama, but there is so much you can do within this to be able to produce 10+ episodes a year, for 10 years, this is exactly in the wein of the old ITV dramas. New ITV dramas have such a small defined premise that the premise is the story, and once it is done you cant expand it, without it seeming a totally different show. I hope that makes sense.

invisipost

Emmerdale's rating is poor? IMO Emmerdale has been the success story of the year for ITV-when everything else has decreased on ITV1, Emmerdale has increased hugely both in ratings and quality for a show that was dying a couple of years ago and continues to provide a great lead in for Corrie and boosts the otherwise weak Tuesdays and often Wednesdays. I can count the number of times Emmerdale has fallen below 6m in normal circumstances on one hand. Something which couldn't be said this time last year. It's recovered from an extremely weak period.

I don't think there is much crossover audience between TOS and Emmerdale. TOS has a lot of casual viewers who just watch if they are at home, but wouldn't make an effort to watch.

I agree, people who watch The One Show probably watch it because they don't like Emmerdale. TOS, I think, will hold its own with 4-5 million viewers and Emmerdale will continue with its 6-7 million fans. Still good for a show which most people avoided like the plague 20 years ago and came within an inch of cancellation in 1993.

It would be interesting to see the combined ratings for the "family" of channels - as although obviously BBC2 distorts the BBC figure slightly, I suspect when you factor in ITV2+3+4, ITV's overall 9pm figure doesn't look anywhere near as bad. This is all guess work rather than based on looking at anything in detail, but I think ITV might actually pick up a lot of the viewers it loses from ITV1 on the digital channels - especially ITV3 which quietly goes about it's business.


I think it'll do alright actually - it more than held it's own last week, although with a head start, and I think in these days of being able to start watching a show while it's still recorded, fans of both are happy to watch Merlin then watch TXF on a slight delay and skip the ads.


You make perfect sense - even now we're seeing things like Heartbeat (24-26 eps a year) and The Bill (all year round) basically replaced by numerous 3-parters. Series really need to be running 8-10 weeks at least to get a foothold in the schedule and make their mark (even if their mark is a bit of a stinker), and it surely must be cheaper for ITV to commission say one six-part series rather than two three-parters.


In a way ITV is now suffering for it's past glories. OK, no new series launched in the last few years has worked out for them, but before that in the early part of the decade ITV were having much success with their one-off "drama premieres" and their various two-parters - but none of these translated into returnable series. So although in the short term they were pulling in the ratings and getting critical acclaim, at the time the BBC were bringing in new shows such as Spooks, Hustle, Waking the Dead etc. which turned out to have many years of life in them.

Maybe not poor by its own standards but poor for a show that we were all told was going to overtake EastEnders as the number 2 soap a few years ago. Something which did for a time seem likely. And imo Emmerdale should be hitting 7m more regularly. It's way behind the other soaps now.

I think it has been clear for a while that, thanks to The Apprentice having to move and the decision to hold New Tricks back, BBC1 were going to have a stronger 4th quarter than last year. And that ITV, without Benidorm and Doc Martin were bound to struggle more.

Based on their recent decisions, I'm not sure that ITV can afford drama that rates much below 5m. The only positive from the week was Paul O'Grady who is doing exactly what would have been hoped for. 3.5m against tough opposition on a difficult night at low cost.

What I would have liked to see ITV do is a proper "premiere week". Launch The X Factor in the first weekend of September and within that, heavily promote the new line-up. Instead of 30 second trailers at the start and end of ad breaks, just do full 60 second trailers that tell us a bit more. Have recognisable talent in the new series - and send them around promoting endlessly.

Monday - Crime procedurals
Tuesday - Factual
Wednesday - Football
Thursday - 2 Sitcoms
Friday - Paul O'Grady
Sunday - Serialised Drama

All of them running around 10-12 episodes. And all arranged so as they can return in the same slots the next year - none of these 18 month gaps between series.

When TV can be so hit-and-miss, it's not helpful when your "hits" end up being limited to 3 or 4 hours every 18 months. It also means that the channel won't build a strong image around them.

As I've mentioned, away from the soaps( and Corrie isn't such a big hitter now), ITV1 only really gets high ratings for the Cowell shows and I'm A Celeb, but this fluctuates, last year it averaged 8 million, but the year before fell to 5 million, and a weak set of contestants could do it in this year. Also the format is getting stale and I can see it doing a BB and being finished.
Speaking of reality, ITV1 hasn't had much luck in recent years. Ladette to Lady is now in its death throes due to the format being ruined, All At Sea, Marco's Kitchen Burnout and possibly 71 Degrees North flopped and then there were real stinkers like WAGs Boutique and Love Island.

I like the idea but isn't this the sort of thing ITV did with 'Identity' and look how that worked out! Subsitute TXF for The World Cup and there were quite a lot of promos for Identity during that period, had recogniseable talent in Keeley Hawes, it launched well, but the ratings fell because it wasn't a particularly good show. Couldn't the same sort of thing happen here too, but it'd be even worse with 12 episodes? 12 episodes is great if the show is a hit but it's risky business, as we saw quite recently with Echo Beach bombing and stinking up their schedule for almost 3 months!


I agree, the gaps between series of some of their popular shows are too long. Really, they ought to have recommissioned Benidorm for two series in one go because I can see there being a scenario after series 4 where there'll be another 18 months before a fifth series is on air. It gives the writer extra time to work on the fifth series even before the fourth one is on air so they can start production on it as soon as possible. I doubt Benidorm's ratings will fall to axing levels anytime soon. The same goes for some of their other shows too like Whitechapel which they took too long in renewing - ratings for that was so high in its first series that at this stage they should be developing a third one with production ready to go soon after the 2nd one airs even if the ratings drop to 6m. Of course, ITV probably haven't thought about doing that based on their track record.

Not really ratings related but I find it amazing that they make changes to a programme this late in the day,

http://twitter.com/peterdickson

I don't know if it's common but it does seem strange to do it so late.

This really hasn't been ITV's year. Even the much touted ITV2 has shown such ratings flops as Jedward, The Saturdays 24.7 and Paris Hilton's New BFF( although my niece watches it) and is now falling behind BBC Three, which has a much more varied line up.
ITV's problems are complicated to fix. For all we would love to tell them to ditch all their crummy reality shows and extra Corrie episodes( and I would think a few staff would say the same), they know that these programmes are cheap and in the case of Corrie is a ratings banker. ITV is fighting for a diminshing share of the advertising cake and the days of them creating a series like The World At War are impossible to do on cost grounds.
However, should ITV's decline be THAT important. For all it is the original commercial broadcaster and has an illustrious past, rather like Rover ,which once dominated the British car industry, it's producing a product that fewer people want and the quality is poor. For quality commercial television, Channel 4 does a far better job, then there are specialised sports and news channels whose coverage is light years ahead of ITV. ITV will go like Rover, some of it will survive under different management but the rest will go.

That is the risk - at the end of the day you do actually need to make good TV shows! And if they all fail then you're screwed (ask NBC). On the other hand, even if only one or two of them are hits, then there are significant long term benefits.

Moving Wallpaper and Echo Beach should never in a million years have played out on the same channel. I agree with the time gaps, a lot of the hype for some shows is built up purely because the viewer knows "its that time of year". Just take a look at this years Apprentice to see the negative effect that can have.

Just on a basic scheduling level, a quick fix solution for ITV is to scrap their LWT style Friday entertainment slot completely and focus on Saturday and Sunday for entertainment. Airing murder mystery from 8-10pm on Friday is always a big draw, repeat or not, and they should consider moving their light entertainment shows to Sunday (Alan Carr's show works very well there) and any attempts at scripted comedies (so basically Benidorm ) to Thursday.

Their biggest problem, as already mentioned, is their lack of returning dramas. I definitely think Bad Girls is one to consider recomissioning to get them back off the ground, I think it would do quite well considering it finished with quite good ratings. ITV don't really try to attempt them anymore though, they tend to focus on specials rather than series'. Collision, Father & Son and U Be Dead are recent examples of their successes, but they are few and far between and none of them have any recomission value. Collision could but it would be pushing it a bit and it would basically be the same thing.

My final gripe with ITV (and Channel 4 for that matter) is their lack of responsivness fo successful digital shows. If BBC2/BBC3 gets a big hit, its promoted to BBC1 quite quickly where it becomes a massive TV show. Just one example of where ITV are going wrong here is Celebrity Juice. That got close to 1m viewers the other night and fits their outlook for what they're trying to achieve at the weekends with younger viewers. Why is it still airing on ITV2 when it could be getting them 3m+ (but crucially high in 16-34 year olds) on a Saturday/Sunday?! This problem is greater with Channel 4 though. I'm all for giving digital channels their own unique identity but digital channels should never overshadow their terrestrial counterpart. Channel 4 would probably be in a simiar position to how ITV1 currently rates if they stripped E4 of its successes.

I must admit that I really liked Echo Beach and Moving Wallpaper, I think I'm the only person on this planet that did. It would have been better if ITV were in the position to air it on two channels as the beeb could have.

I also agree about Channel 4, I'd say that 98% of what I watch on the CH4 franchise is E4, I only watch CH4 for CT,CDWM and The IT Crowd.

Celebrity Juice probably would do well on ITV1 but I don't think it would be huge anyway. And there's also a high chance of it having to tone down if it moved to the main channel and followed The X Factor which is family viewing. The Daily Mail would have a fit at the sight of Michelle Keegan drinking Keith Lemon's cum at 9.15pm on a Saturday night.

And I generally disagree with stripping digital channels of their successes. Repeat them on the main channel by all means but first runs should remain on E4/ITV2 whatever. They're meant to be building these channels for a future where the flagship channels aren't so dominant.

On the subject of Celebrity Juice, it's a really good show now. Sometimes these shows take time to build up recurring gags but they've got it working now. And despite the "Celebrity" title, it's the kind of thing that could even work on E4 because it's generally just taking the pi*s.

I must have seen you mention Ladette to Lady about ten times.. What's the obsession with this insignificant show? They are showing the Aussie version in late night ... It's filler!

WAGs Boutique was ITV2 - again inisignificant.

hang on, ive not seen this show, is that really what happens? The Daily Mail would be well within there rigts to throw a fit at that, and I may just join them.

I didnt realise ITV 2 had gotten so low.

I was employing some dramatic license there. But it is the kind of thing that the Daily Mail would probably feel responsible for ridding from TV - because they know best, of course. :yawn:

Celebrity Juice isn't that bad anyway, most of the comedy is verbal rather than visual even if it was toned down. Following on from X Factor would be unnecessary so keeping its 10pm slot on a Saturday or Sunday would work, and it could even spawn an uncut spin off for ITV2.

Daily Mail would probably throw a fit, but all publicity is good publicity. The goddess they worship known as Holly Willoughby is on the show, so they might be a bit forgiving. But even if it doesn't ever make it to premiere on ITV1, they should definitely give it a rerun at some point in the week after the news at 10.

It was implied that Michelle Keegan was drinking a pint which Keith Lemon had cum into. Its had some other very rude moments but its extremely funny. It would have to be watered down to be on ITV1 on primetime so they may aswell leave it on ITV2 for it to do well there.

The funny thing is that ITV is probably debated more than any other channel on this thread and there are many good ideas about rejuvenating the channel, but they're not taken - why is that?

I'm wondering whether The X Factor/Britain's Got Talent sucks up so much of the budget that they can't afford to test long running dramas.Or whether they have lost their nerve after their disatrous slate of 2008 so they're steering well clear of long commissions in case it goes belly up again.

Strip ITV of the soaps, the Cowell shows, Doc Martin and I'm A Celebrity and they would have nothing in terms of rating bankers. In comparison take EastEnders, Strictly Come Dancing, New Tricks, Doctor Who and Waking the Dead from BBC1 and they'd still have The One Show supporting the start of the evening, Merlin, Silent Witness, Spooks, Who Do You Think You Are, Have I Got News For You?...their programme slate is so much more stable.

ITV need to take risks with long running shows. They also need to stabilise the soap schedule instead of having them chucked haphazardly around the schedules. The most annoying thing is ITV1 has the money and potential to provide good opposition to BBC1, but they're failing to fulfil this.

Last night: New Tricks seems slightly on the low side but still did well. Paul O'Grady is doing his job for ITV. The second Coronation Street seems low but the first is in line with EastEnders which is ok in the current climate.

C4 and Five need a flashsip show right now.
BBC1 has Eastenders, BBC2 has Top Gear/Mock The Week, ITV Has I'm A Celebrity, BGT and XF.

To me, right now it seems to be Grand Designs for Channel 4... and Five hasn't had a flagship show in yonks!!!

I laugh at people demanding that ITV 'take risks'. These would be the first who would find it hilarous when a new 12 part drama 'tanks' after week 2. It would be a talking point every week 'how long will ITV stick with this show in this slot?' etc.

ITV took a risk by axing a long running breakfast show. Look how that has turned out, and the reaction on here, it's now a stick to beat them with "ITV were idiots to axe GMTV"

A lot of the ideas in this thread are constrained by 3 things
- Money
- Ideas that are easier said than done "They need more returning dramas" - you don't say
- What other channels are doing at the same time. All the ideas don't consider BBC1 airing New Tricks in the same slot, or more damaging, a stripped drama.

ITV1 and BBC1 also have the problem that every show has to be a mainstream hit, take comedy for example, they have to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to nobody. All the hit comedies that people rave about over the last few years (like The Inbetweeners) are cult hits that get 2 or 3 million.

I would guess that Moving Wallpaper would still be running now had it been on BBC2 or Channel 4.

I didn't realise Bad Girls had lasted so long. 8 series I see. Ratings for the last series in 2006 were between 4 and 5 million in the officials so it seems to have fallen sharply from its heyday. I'm not sure a revival would be a big success.

I called "Collsion" Crash in a post a couple of days ago. Nobody corrected me. Must have been a boring post.