Older HDready TV wont handle 60HZ

Ryrazzer · 26-08-2010, 15:59

Wonder if anyone can shed any light on this for me.

Did an install round someone`s house last week for an AV receiver, bluray player and SkyHD box.

Now I know the TV is a slightly older HD TV in the way it won`t hande 1080p, or 720p for that matter. 1080i works fine and the TV displays 1080i / 50 which displays perfectly.

Now, the problem is when I put a Bluray film in the player and press play, it sends the TV to 1080i / 60 and the TV just has a fit. It offsets the picture and looks almost like the old red/green 3D films.

I`ve spent ages going through the options of the TV, player and AV receiver but can`t find any kind of setting to stop this or make the TV stay at 1080i / 50.

Are all Bluray films in this format and is there anything else I can recommend to the customer apart from buy a new TV!!

Thanks

chrisjr · 26-08-2010, 16:05

Most movies on Blu-Ray disks use the movie frame rate of 24 frames per second. Which should equate to 48Hz field rate for 1080i. If it was a US TV programme then that could well be at 60Hz which is the US broadcast standard.

A disk mastered for the UK should use 50Hz. But if it is a film at 24 frames per second then the TV could just be displaying 60Hz because the signal it's getting isn't 50Hz and it doesn't know any better.

Nigel Goodwin · 26-08-2010, 16:17

Only later sets will accept 24fps from a BD player, but you should be able to set the BD to output 50Hz anyway.

If the set is HD Ready, then it MUST accept both 1080i and 720P, but 60Hz isn't a requirement.

Ryrazzer · 26-08-2010, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Only later sets will accept 24fps from a BD player, but you should be able to set the BD to output 50Hz anyway.

If the set is HD Ready, then it MUST accept both 1080i and 720P, but 60Hz isn't a requirement.

The menu is very basic on the BD player and the only options to do with picture or set up is the resolution. Even on 720p the TV doesn`t like it.

He only had 2 Blurays to try out. Wonder if they were USA or another region. Mamma Mia menu`s were in Chinese!!

I may take one of mine round and see if that works.

So, just to clarify, if a Bluray movie is from another region, would it set the TV to the higher hz setting?

PsychoTherapist · 26-08-2010, 18:01

Practically all movies on Blu-Ray will be 24p, regardless of region. So, if the TV cannot handle 60Hz and the player cannot force output to 50Hz, then it's probably new TV time.

Ryrazzer · 26-08-2010, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoTherapist

Practically all movies on Blu-Ray will be 24p, regardless of region. So, if the TV cannot handle 60Hz and the player cannot force output to 50Hz, then it's probably new TV time.

Just as I thought. Thanks for the answers guys.

Winston_1 · 26-08-2010, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoTherapist

Practically all movies on Blu-Ray will be 24p, regardless of region. So, if the TV cannot handle 60Hz and the player cannot force output to 50Hz, then it's probably new TV time.

Surely a new blueray player would be cheaper than a new TV. Just make sure the one you get can output 50Hz.

Ryrazzer · 26-08-2010, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston_1

Surely a new blueray player would be cheaper than a new TV. Just make sure the one you get can output 50Hz.

The bluray player is brand new which actually could be a plus because the customer could always take it back and get a different model.

How would you know if a player can output 50hz?

PsychoTherapist · 26-08-2010, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston_1

Surely a new blueray player would be cheaper than a new TV. Just make sure the one you get can output 50Hz.

Ah, I read the original post too quickly. I saw ¨AV Receiver, Blu-Ray player¨ and assumed it was an all-in-1 job, which would have been a pain to take out and replace for the sake of a poor TV.

If the player is standalone though, then yeah another player would be cheaper. But finding one that supports 50Hz output for Blu-Ray movies, could be a bit of a minefield.

snotrageater · 26-08-2010, 20:31

If the Bluray is from another region then chances are the Bluray player won't even play it as it needs to be multiregional.

Very unlikely that any modern tv would be unable to accept 60hz anyway, it sounds as if the settings need adjusting.

Regardless of whether the tv accepts 60hz the main HD feature on the disc should still play correctly.

Set the output of the player to sd for starters just to check if it displays anything at all .

At the very least it should have no problem with 720 .

Region wise , all Bluray discs are identical now and there is no PAL/NTSC difference as there was before.

Some discs with sd bonus features may prove a problem although some UK discs include extras in 480p but US equipment can have problems with bonus features on UK discs if they are 576 - which some are.

Ryrazzer · 26-08-2010, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by snotrageater

If the Bluray is from another region then chances are the Bluray player won't even play it as it needs to be multiregional.

Very unlikely that any modern tv would be unable to accept 60hz anyway, it sounds as if the settings need adjusting.

Regardless of whether the tv accepts 60hz the main HD feature on the disc should still play correctly.

Set the output of the player to sd for starters just to check if it displays anything at all .

At the very least it should have no problem with 720 .

Region wise , all Bluray discs are identical now and there is no PAL/NTSC difference as there was before.

Some discs with sd bonus features may prove a problem although some UK discs include extras in 480p but US equipment can have problems with bonus features on UK discs if they are 576 - which some are.

When the player is turned on 1080 / 50 is displayed in the top left corner of the TV. The menus and standard DVDs play fine.

As soon as a Bluray is put into the player and played, 1080i / 60 is displayed on the TV and you get the kind of shadow, 3D effect.

When I change the resolution in the menu of the TV it will not correctly display any resolution which is progressive, only interlaced.

Nigel Goodwin · 26-08-2010, 20:43

What make and model is the BD player?, I woudl suggest getting a better one.

Ryrazzer · 26-08-2010, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

What make and model is the BD player?, I woudl suggest getting a better one.

Can't remember off the top of my head but it's from Asda. Need I say more?

Nigel Goodwin · 26-08-2010, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryrazzer

Can't remember off the top of my head but it's from Asda. Need I say more?

That could well be your problem then

snotrageater · 26-08-2010, 23:06

I would say its the tv at fault and it must be a no name low grade brand to be unable to take 60hz.
My tv from the 80's could take 60hz.

DO you have any NTSC dvd's to try in the player ?
These will be 60hz so see if they play.
Many US dvd's are coded for more than one region so it may still play on the UK player.

pocatello · 27-08-2010, 04:06

Get some legitimate discs to test. Have they managed to pirate bluray discs in the chinese market yet?

But yes as said, if the tv is that old, it might be best to put it out to pasture, its picture quality maybe so poor its a waste of bluray.

Ryrazzer · 27-08-2010, 06:57

The TV is a Sony. Sorry I don't have the model number but it has 2 HDMI sockets.

Sounds like it could be the TV then.

They have a Samsung HD ready in the bedroom so might try the player on that just to rule out a fault with the player.

Nigel Goodwin · 27-08-2010, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryrazzer

The TV is a Sony. Sorry I don't have the model number but it has 2 HDMI sockets.

Sounds like it could be the TV then.

I wouldn't think so, a UK BD player should output 50Hz, if it's outputting 60Hz it's a pretty crappy player.

This is of course assuming it's 60Hz which is the problem, it might be something else?.

Quote:

They have a Samsung HD ready in the bedroom so might try the player on that just to rule out a fault with the player.

Try it on that, but it's not a 100% test, different sets react slightly differently.

bobcar · 27-08-2010, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I wouldn't think so, a UK BD player should output 50Hz, if it's outputting 60Hz it's a pretty crappy player.

Really? My Sony Blu-ray player will output 1080p60 as default for p24 Blu-rays when the TV (like my 3 year old Panny) will not accept 1080p24 and then 1080i30, 720p60. I'm not sure there's even a setting for 50Hz though of course it will use this for "PAL" DVDs.

If the player outputs 1080p50 or 1080i50 then will have to insert frames making the picture jerky (worse than 60Hz) - the usual 50Hz speed up will not work without extra audio processing on the player itself rather than that being done by the disk producers as in "PAL" discs. Do any players play 1080p24 disks at 1080p50/i25?

snotrageater · 27-08-2010, 20:44

Yes , I read elsewhere from someone that their Sony player was outputting 60hz too but I would assume this is standard as a large amount of Bluray discs are identical to the US ones as this allows the companies to make the disc region free and sell the same pressing worldwide.

I have UK bought Blurays where the sd extras are still in 480p which presumably are 60hz too.

However - the idea that a Sony HD tv with 2 HDMI sockets is unable to accept 60hz is rather unlikely and bizarre.

As I said earlier , if you can access an NTSC dvd then that should not display correctly at all if the tv is genuinely having trouble with 60hz

bobcar · 27-08-2010, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by snotrageater

Yes , I read elsewhere from someone that their Sony player was outputting 60hz too but I would assume this is standard as a large amount of Bluray discs are identical to the US ones as this allows the companies to make the disc region free and sell the same pressing worldwide.

The disks I'm referring are Blu-ray 1080p24 and so the player is making the choice since my TV doesn't take p24 but will take 1080p60 (or 50). Playing at 60 Hz is quite simple but playing at 50Hz would be much more difficult because of the speed up (I don't know if any do) or horribly juddery because of the extra frames.

Quote:

However - the idea that a Sony HD tv with 2 HDMI sockets is unable to accept 60hz is rather unlikely and bizarre.

As I said earlier , if you can access an NTSC dvd then that should not display correctly at all if the tv is genuinely having trouble with 60hz

Yes it seems very unlikely to be a 60Hz problem with the TV.

26-08-2010, 15:59	#1
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	Older HDready TV wont handle 60HZ Wonder if anyone can shed any light on this for me. Did an install round someone`s house last week for an AV receiver, bluray player and SkyHD box. Now I know the TV is a slightly older HD TV in the way it won`t hande 1080p, or 720p for that matter. 1080i works fine and the TV displays 1080i / 50 which displays perfectly. Now, the problem is when I put a Bluray film in the player and press play, it sends the TV to 1080i / 60 and the TV just has a fit. It offsets the picture and looks almost like the old red/green 3D films. I`ve spent ages going through the options of the TV, player and AV receiver but can`t find any kind of setting to stop this or make the TV stay at 1080i / 50. Are all Bluray films in this format and is there anything else I can recommend to the customer apart from buy a new TV!! Thanks

26-08-2010, 16:05	#2
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Most movies on Blu-Ray disks use the movie frame rate of 24 frames per second. Which should equate to 48Hz field rate for 1080i. If it was a US TV programme then that could well be at 60Hz which is the US broadcast standard. A disk mastered for the UK should use 50Hz. But if it is a film at 24 frames per second then the TV could just be displaying 60Hz because the signal it's getting isn't 50Hz and it doesn't know any better.

26-08-2010, 16:17	#3
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Only later sets will accept 24fps from a BD player, but you should be able to set the BD to output 50Hz anyway. If the set is HD Ready, then it MUST accept both 1080i and 720P, but 60Hz isn't a requirement.

26-08-2010, 17:19	#4
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Only later sets will accept 24fps from a BD player, but you should be able to set the BD to output 50Hz anyway. If the set is HD Ready, then it MUST accept both 1080i and 720P, but 60Hz isn't a requirement. The menu is very basic on the BD player and the only options to do with picture or set up is the resolution. Even on 720p the TV doesn`t like it. He only had 2 Blurays to try out. Wonder if they were USA or another region. Mamma Mia menu`s were in Chinese!! I may take one of mine round and see if that works. So, just to clarify, if a Bluray movie is from another region, would it set the TV to the higher hz setting?

26-08-2010, 18:01	#5
PsychoTherapist Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 2,194	Practically all movies on Blu-Ray will be 24p, regardless of region. So, if the TV cannot handle 60Hz and the player cannot force output to 50Hz, then it's probably new TV time.

26-08-2010, 18:14	#6
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	Quote: Originally Posted by PsychoTherapist Practically all movies on Blu-Ray will be 24p, regardless of region. So, if the TV cannot handle 60Hz and the player cannot force output to 50Hz, then it's probably new TV time. Just as I thought. Thanks for the answers guys.

26-08-2010, 20:00	#7
Winston_1 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,008	Quote: Originally Posted by PsychoTherapist Practically all movies on Blu-Ray will be 24p, regardless of region. So, if the TV cannot handle 60Hz and the player cannot force output to 50Hz, then it's probably new TV time. Surely a new blueray player would be cheaper than a new TV. Just make sure the one you get can output 50Hz.

26-08-2010, 20:07	#8
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	Quote: Originally Posted by Winston_1 Surely a new blueray player would be cheaper than a new TV. Just make sure the one you get can output 50Hz. The bluray player is brand new which actually could be a plus because the customer could always take it back and get a different model. How would you know if a player can output 50hz?

26-08-2010, 20:20	#9
PsychoTherapist Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 2,194	Quote: Originally Posted by Winston_1 Surely a new blueray player would be cheaper than a new TV. Just make sure the one you get can output 50Hz. Ah, I read the original post too quickly. I saw ¨AV Receiver, Blu-Ray player¨ and assumed it was an all-in-1 job, which would have been a pain to take out and replace for the sake of a poor TV. If the player is standalone though, then yeah another player would be cheaper. But finding one that supports 50Hz output for Blu-Ray movies, could be a bit of a minefield.

26-08-2010, 20:31	#10
snotrageater Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 635	If the Bluray is from another region then chances are the Bluray player won't even play it as it needs to be multiregional. Very unlikely that any modern tv would be unable to accept 60hz anyway, it sounds as if the settings need adjusting. Regardless of whether the tv accepts 60hz the main HD feature on the disc should still play correctly. Set the output of the player to sd for starters just to check if it displays anything at all . At the very least it should have no problem with 720 . Region wise , all Bluray discs are identical now and there is no PAL/NTSC difference as there was before. Some discs with sd bonus features may prove a problem although some UK discs include extras in 480p but US equipment can have problems with bonus features on UK discs if they are 576 - which some are.

26-08-2010, 20:41	#11
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	Quote: Originally Posted by snotrageater If the Bluray is from another region then chances are the Bluray player won't even play it as it needs to be multiregional. Very unlikely that any modern tv would be unable to accept 60hz anyway, it sounds as if the settings need adjusting. Regardless of whether the tv accepts 60hz the main HD feature on the disc should still play correctly. Set the output of the player to sd for starters just to check if it displays anything at all . At the very least it should have no problem with 720 . Region wise , all Bluray discs are identical now and there is no PAL/NTSC difference as there was before. Some discs with sd bonus features may prove a problem although some UK discs include extras in 480p but US equipment can have problems with bonus features on UK discs if they are 576 - which some are. When the player is turned on 1080 / 50 is displayed in the top left corner of the TV. The menus and standard DVDs play fine. As soon as a Bluray is put into the player and played, 1080i / 60 is displayed on the TV and you get the kind of shadow, 3D effect. When I change the resolution in the menu of the TV it will not correctly display any resolution which is progressive, only interlaced.

26-08-2010, 20:43	#12
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	What make and model is the BD player?, I woudl suggest getting a better one.

26-08-2010, 20:46	#13
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin What make and model is the BD player?, I woudl suggest getting a better one. Can't remember off the top of my head but it's from Asda. Need I say more?

26-08-2010, 20:48	#14
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Ryrazzer Can't remember off the top of my head but it's from Asda. Need I say more? That could well be your problem then

26-08-2010, 23:06	#15
snotrageater Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 635	I would say its the tv at fault and it must be a no name low grade brand to be unable to take 60hz. My tv from the 80's could take 60hz. DO you have any NTSC dvd's to try in the player ? These will be 60hz so see if they play. Many US dvd's are coded for more than one region so it may still play on the UK player.

27-08-2010, 04:06	#16
pocatello Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8,622	Get some legitimate discs to test. Have they managed to pirate bluray discs in the chinese market yet? But yes as said, if the tv is that old, it might be best to put it out to pasture, its picture quality maybe so poor its a waste of bluray.

27-08-2010, 06:57	#17
Ryrazzer Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,191	The TV is a Sony. Sorry I don't have the model number but it has 2 HDMI sockets. Sounds like it could be the TV then. They have a Samsung HD ready in the bedroom so might try the player on that just to rule out a fault with the player.

27-08-2010, 09:51	#18
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Ryrazzer The TV is a Sony. Sorry I don't have the model number but it has 2 HDMI sockets. Sounds like it could be the TV then. I wouldn't think so, a UK BD player should output 50Hz, if it's outputting 60Hz it's a pretty crappy player. This is of course assuming it's 60Hz which is the problem, it might be something else?. Quote: They have a Samsung HD ready in the bedroom so might try the player on that just to rule out a fault with the player. Try it on that, but it's not a 100% test, different sets react slightly differently.

27-08-2010, 10:38	#19
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin I wouldn't think so, a UK BD player should output 50Hz, if it's outputting 60Hz it's a pretty crappy player. Really? My Sony Blu-ray player will output 1080p60 as default for p24 Blu-rays when the TV (like my 3 year old Panny) will not accept 1080p24 and then 1080i30, 720p60. I'm not sure there's even a setting for 50Hz though of course it will use this for "PAL" DVDs. If the player outputs 1080p50 or 1080i50 then will have to insert frames making the picture jerky (worse than 60Hz) - the usual 50Hz speed up will not work without extra audio processing on the player itself rather than that being done by the disk producers as in "PAL" discs. Do any players play 1080p24 disks at 1080p50/i25?

27-08-2010, 20:44	#20
snotrageater Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 635	Yes , I read elsewhere from someone that their Sony player was outputting 60hz too but I would assume this is standard as a large amount of Bluray discs are identical to the US ones as this allows the companies to make the disc region free and sell the same pressing worldwide. I have UK bought Blurays where the sd extras are still in 480p which presumably are 60hz too. However - the idea that a Sony HD tv with 2 HDMI sockets is unable to accept 60hz is rather unlikely and bizarre. As I said earlier , if you can access an NTSC dvd then that should not display correctly at all if the tv is genuinely having trouble with 60hz

27-08-2010, 20:54	#21
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by snotrageater Yes , I read elsewhere from someone that their Sony player was outputting 60hz too but I would assume this is standard as a large amount of Bluray discs are identical to the US ones as this allows the companies to make the disc region free and sell the same pressing worldwide. The disks I'm referring are Blu-ray 1080p24 and so the player is making the choice since my TV doesn't take p24 but will take 1080p60 (or 50). Playing at 60 Hz is quite simple but playing at 50Hz would be much more difficult because of the speed up (I don't know if any do) or horribly juddery because of the extra frames. Quote: However - the idea that a Sony HD tv with 2 HDMI sockets is unable to accept 60hz is rather unlikely and bizarre. As I said earlier , if you can access an NTSC dvd then that should not display correctly at all if the tv is genuinely having trouble with 60hz Yes it seems very unlikely to be a 60Hz problem with the TV.

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