HDR-FOX T2 - Problems with QAM 64 muxes when recording

richard_g_uk

28-08-2010

Had thsi box delieverd yesterday and I am very impressed with it however I noted yesterday a couple of instances where recordings were breaking up and in some cases a complete loss of a mux.

So this morning I devised a little test. Below are the strength and quality indications taken from the Signal Detection menu. I have also listed the channel I have used in each mux for the testing I did (described later):-

Code:

Mux QAM  Freq. Strength Quality Channel used for checks

1   16   41    63       100     1  - BBC One
2   64   44    63       100     3  - ITV1
A   64   47    63       100     16 - QVC
B   16   51    62       100     81 - BBC Parliament
C   16   52    61       100     19 - Dave
D   16   55    42       100     18 - 4 Music
HD  256  34    46       100     50 - BBC HD

Now onto the testing. I basically tuned to the specified channel on a mux and started recording the current programme. I then switched to each specified channel on the remaining 6 muxes noting the strength and qauality readings taken from the iPlate. The recording was stopped and then the test repeated for each mux. Here are my findings:-

Code:

Recording Mux 1
===============

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        10
A    1        1 - No signal
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10


Recording Mux 2
===============

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        10
A    1        1 - No signal
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10


Recording Mux A
===============

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        6/7
A    5        10
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10


Recording Mux B
===============

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        3 - Audio and picture breakup
A    1        1 - No signal
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10


Recording Mux C
===============

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        4
A    1        1 - No signal
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10


Recording Mux D
===============

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        4
A    1        1 - No signal
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10


Recording HD Mux
================

Mux  Strength Quality

1    5        10
2    5        10
A    1        1 - No signal
B    5        10
C    5        10
D    3        10
HD   3        10

As you can see I always appear to lose mux A (except when recording it obviously) and mux 2 seems to suffer with a loss of quality when recording muxes A,B,C and D. Note that these are both 64 QAM muxes.

Has anyone got any ideas why this happening? I wonder if someone would care to repeat my experiment and see what happens on their setup?

peggle

28-08-2010

For me it makes no difference to any channel when recording any other channel including the HD ones.

I am on a different transmitter though & have signal strength of over 70% on all Mux's.

PhilipL

28-08-2010

Originally Posted by richard_g_uk:
“Had thsi box delieverd yesterday and I am very impressed with it however I noted yesterday a couple of instances where recordings were breaking up and in some cases a complete loss of a mux.

So this morning I devised a little test. Below are the strength and quality indications taken from the Signal Detection menu. I have also listed the channel I have used in each mux for the testing I did (described later):-

Code:

Mux QAM Freq. Strength Quality Channel used for checks 1 16 41 63 100 1 - BBC One 2 64 44 63 100 3 - ITV1 A 64 47 63 100 16 - QVC B 16 51 62 100 81 - BBC Parliament C 16 52 61 100 19 - Dave D 16 55 42 100 18 - 4 Music HD 256 34 46 100 50 - BBC HD

Now onto the testing. I basically tuned to the specified channel on a mux and started recording the current programme. I then switched to each specified channel on the remaining 6 muxes noting the strength and qauality readings taken from the iPlate. The recording was stopped and then the test repeated for each mux. Here are my findings:-

Code:

Recording Mux 1 =============== Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 10 A 1 1 - No signal B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10 Recording Mux 2 =============== Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 10 A 1 1 - No signal B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10 Recording Mux A =============== Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 6/7 A 5 10 B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10 Recording Mux B =============== Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 3 - Audio and picture breakup A 1 1 - No signal B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10 Recording Mux C =============== Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 4 A 1 1 - No signal B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10 Recording Mux D =============== Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 4 A 1 1 - No signal B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10 Recording HD Mux ================ Mux Strength Quality 1 5 10 2 5 10 A 1 1 - No signal B 5 10 C 5 10 D 3 10 HD 3 10

As you can see I always appear to lose mux A (except when recording it obviously) and mux 2 seems to suffer with a loss of quality when recording muxes A,B,C and D. Note that these are both 64 QAM muxes.

Has anyone got any ideas why this happening? I wonder if someone would care to repeat my experiment and see what happens on their setup?”

It might be one of the tuners has not tuned correctly, and when you are recording you are then swapped over to that tuner. Have you tried retuning in all the channels?

There is a hidden service menu that will allow you to check the signal strength/quality individually on each tuner. See if this identifies one tuner with a problem. If you find one tuner has reception issues, it is probably a case of a faulty tuner and you need to get the box swapped out.

Service menu (thanks to petrev who posted this on AVForums).

Menu > Settings > System > System Information > Red > Green > Yellow > Blue > Green > Yellow > Blue

Now select signal detection, and compare the signals between both tuners.

Just click Exit to come back out of the hidden menu.

Regards

Phil

richard_g_uk

28-08-2010

Cheers Phil,

Checked the individual tuners but both appear to be operating as expected. It actually shows that mux D and the HD mux quality levels are bouncing around between 60% to 100%. The other 5 muxes remain solid at 100%.

However I have now performed a factory reset and it appears to have cured the issue with mux 2 (it remains solid with a strength of 5 and a quality of 10 regardless of what mux is being recorded) however mux A still disappears.

Still puzzled as to what is going on?
Last edited by richard_g_uk : 28-08-2010 at 18:17

Dancc

28-08-2010

On my box the signal strength is always between about 30% and 40% which I find odd because it was closer to 80% on my last box.

Quality is 10/10 however.

richard_g_uk

16-10-2010

Originally Posted by richard_g_uk:
“Cheers Phil,

Checked the individual tuners but both appear to be operating as expected. It actually shows that mux D and the HD mux quality levels are bouncing around between 60% to 100%. The other 5 muxes remain solid at 100%.

However I have now performed a factory reset and it appears to have cured the issue with mux 2 (it remains solid with a strength of 5 and a quality of 10 regardless of what mux is being recorded) however mux A still disappears.

Still puzzled as to what is going on?”

Had a failed recording today. I forgot Fiver was on mux A and was watching ITV1 HD at the time. By the time I remembered, the program on Fiver had nearly finished so I turned over to see if it was recording but was greeted with a no signal message.

Cancelled the recording and channel hopped to another channel (on a different mux) and then back to Fiver and everything was fine (the iPlate showed strength of 5 and a quality of 10).

Perfomed some more testing tonight and it seems that mux 2 is also playing up in exactly the same way. Its almost as if one of the tuners in my box has a problem with the 64 QAM muxes only.

I'm thinking of leaving work early one of the days so I can ring Humax support as they do not appear to respond to e-mails (other than to respond to the read receipt). Although with such a complex issue to explain over the phone I may have one more last attempt at sending them a mail.

Anyone any more suggestions or things I can try?

PhilipL

17-10-2010

Originally Posted by richard_g_uk:
“Had a failed recording today. I forgot Fiver was on mux A and was watching ITV1 HD at the time. By the time I remembered, the program on Fiver had nearly finished so I turned over to see if it was recording but was greeted with a no signal message.

Cancelled the recording and channel hopped to another channel (on a different mux) and then back to Fiver and everything was fine (the iPlate showed strength of 5 and a quality of 10).

Perfomed some more testing tonight and it seems that mux 2 is also playing up in exactly the same way. Its almost as if one of the tuners in my box has a problem with the 64 QAM muxes only.

I'm thinking of leaving work early one of the days so I can ring Humax support as they do not appear to respond to e-mails (other than to respond to the read receipt). Although with such a complex issue to explain over the phone I may have one more last attempt at sending them a mail.

Anyone any more suggestions or things I can try?”

Your box is faulty, you shouldn't be having any issues like this.

Contact the place you bought it from and ask for a replacement, it is your legal right, you don't need to go messing around trying to contact Humax who may end up sending you a refurbished replacement anyway.

I'm surprised you have stuck with it so long working around the issue.

Regards

Phil

richard_g_uk

17-10-2010

Originally Posted by PhilipL:
“Hi

Your box is faulty, you shouldn't be having any issues like this.

Contact the place you bought it from and ask for a replacement, it is your legal right, you don't need to go messing around trying to contact Humax who may end up sending you a refurbished replacement anyway.

I'm surprised you have stuck with it so long working around the issue.

Regards

Phil”

Cheers Phil I think you may be right. It's just a pain in the arse with pickup and deliveries when I am at work.

I ordered it form Currys online so I could try and contact them and ask if I can do a swap at our local branch.

richard_g_uk

23-10-2010

Right - done a swap at the local Curry's. Initially I thought everything was OK with the new unit however I noticed a loss of signal Mux A and so I repeated the above testing which confirmed issues with Mux A.

I performed a factory reset followed by automatic scan and the issue moved to Mux 2 (Mux A was fine). I have just done another factory reset followed by a manual scan and I now appear to be having issues with both Mux A and Mux 2.

Bizarrely, what I have discovered is that if I record ITV and Ch 4 which are both on Mux 2, ITV 2 also on Mux 2 is absolutely fine (Signal Strength 10 Quality 5). If I understand the architecture of the box then this would mean that both tuners would have to be tuned to the same Mux (i.e. one Tuner tuned to Mux 2 so ITV and Channel 4 can be recorded and the other tuner tuned to Mux 2 so ITV 2 can be viewed). Simalarly I can record Fiver and Five USA (both on Mux A) and view QVC (also on Mux A) with signal strengths of 10 and quality of 5.

Really confued now. Surely I can't have had 2 faulty boxes especially as they do different things following a factory reset?

richard_g_uk

23-10-2010

Originally Posted by richard_g_uk:
“Right - done a swap at the local Curry's. Initially I thought everything was OK with the new unit however I noticed a loss of signal Mux A and so I repeated the above testing which confirmed issues with Mux A.

I performed a factory reset followed by automatic scan and the issue moved to Mux 2 (Mux A was fine). I have just done another factory reset followed by a manual scan and I now appear to be having issues with both Mux A and Mux 2.

Bizarrely, what I have discovered is that if I record ITV and Ch 4 which are both on Mux 2, ITV 2 also on Mux 2 is absolutely fine (Signal Strength 10 Quality 5). If I understand the architecture of the box then this would mean that both tuners would have to be tuned to the same Mux (i.e. one Tuner tuned to Mux 2 so ITV and Channel 4 can be recorded and the other tuner tuned to Mux 2 so ITV 2 can be viewed). Simalarly I can record Fiver and Five USA (both on Mux A) and view QVC (also on Mux A) with signal strengths of 10 and quality of 5.

Really confued now. Surely I can't have had 2 faulty boxes especially as they do different things following a factory reset?

”

Sorry - In the above I meant strengths of 5, quality of 10.

PhilipL

23-10-2010

Originally Posted by richard_g_uk:
“Sorry - In the above I meant strengths of 5, quality of 10.”

It would be odd if two boxes have the same fault!

Are you running an amplifier for the aerial?

Have you tried with just the Humax plugged into the aerial, i.e. don't daisy chain it to your TV? Try another aerial fly lead to rule out a faulty one. Can you take the Humax elsewhere, perhaps to a neighbours or friends receiving from the same transmitter, does the problem manifest itself elsewhere, if No, must be a problem caused locally to you.

As for tuners, if you are recording 2 things from the same MUX then only one tuner is used for both those recordings as I understand it, leaving the second tuner free so you can watch any other channel. You can tell this if you are able to view any channel while recording 2 on the same MUX. If it were using 2 tuners then you would only be able to switch to other channels on that same MUX, as both tuners would be locked to the MUX to record.

Sounds very odd, I don't think two boxes can be faulty, so it must something else.

Regards

Phil

richard_g_uk

30-10-2010

After a good couple of hours of messing I have fixed my problem.

The Humax was connected to a 4 way distribution amp in the loft (feeding my room, parents room, the kitchen and the remaining one going to a now unused socket in the spare room). The distribution amp was fed by an indoor loft mounted aerial. As an aside we have an outdoor chimney mounted aerial which feeds the living room directly.

I started by moving the Humax downstairs and connecting it via SCART (as per Graham's suggection on Hummy.org) and directly to the outside aerial (as per Phil's suggestion on DS). This proved that there was no problem with the Humax as my strange symptoms went away.

I then did some experimenting by reconnecting it back up in my room and then going up in the loft and connecting the feed in my room directly to the outside aerial. This was also OK. At this point I thought the problem was with the 4 way distribution box however connecting my room directly to the indoor loft aerial resulted in the problems re-occuring. I then tried plugging the outside aerial into the distribution box and feeding my room via the distributin box. At this point the problem went away. So for some reason my problem only happens when connected to the indoor loft aerial (directly or indirectly via the distribution box).

Anyway I have now disconnected the indoor loft aerial and have the distribution box fed from the outside aerial. The distribution box now feeds my room, parents room, the kitchen and the living room. As a bonus all connected freeview equipment has shown an increase in strength by 1 to 2 bars (signal quality has never really been issue).

So thanks everyone for the suggestions but at least everything now appears to be behaving itself and working as it should.

PhilipL

30-10-2010

Originally Posted by richard_g_uk:
“After a good couple of hours of messing I have fixed my problem.

The Humax was connected to a 4 way distribution amp in the loft (feeding my room, parents room, the kitchen and the remaining one going to a now unused socket in the spare room). The distribution amp was fed by an indoor loft mounted aerial. As an aside we have an outdoor chimney mounted aerial which feeds the living room directly.

I started by moving the Humax downstairs and connecting it via SCART (as per Graham's suggection on Hummy.org) and directly to the outside aerial (as per Phil's suggestion on DS). This proved that there was no problem with the Humax as my strange symptoms went away.

I then did some experimenting by reconnecting it back up in my room and then going up in the loft and connecting the feed in my room directly to the outside aerial. This was also OK. At this point I thought the problem was with the 4 way distribution box however connecting my room directly to the indoor loft aerial resulted in the problems re-occuring. I then tried plugging the outside aerial into the distribution box and feeding my room via the distributin box. At this point the problem went away. So for some reason my problem only happens when connected to the indoor loft aerial (directly or indirectly via the distribution box).

Anyway I have now disconnected the indoor loft aerial and have the distribution box fed from the outside aerial. The distribution box now feeds my room, parents room, the kitchen and the living room. As a bonus all connected freeview equipment has shown an increase in strength by 1 to 2 bars (signal quality has never really been issue).

So thanks everyone for the suggestions but at least everything now appears to be behaving itself and working as it should.”

Glad you have you sorted it out. Just goes to show how complicated RF is.

Regards

Phil