Are faulty LCD TVs worth repairing?

elefthg · 03-09-2010, 16:11

Title sums it up really. I have a 4 1/2 year old 40" samsung lcd tv that yesterday started to show lots of snowy lines across the screen accompanied by a purple vertical line to the left of the screen. It would get better after a few minutes (but not totally right). Today it is much worse and does not improve. I've made a couple of phone calls to local tv repair people who seem to think it's a panel issue and are telling me not to bother repairing it.

As it cost me £2000 at the time, it seems such a waste. Does anyone have a view on this?

Thanks.

hardeep · 03-09-2010, 16:42

To be honest you could get a new TV - like a KDL40EX503 - for under £700 which would be better PQ and feature wise.

Unless the repair is around a couple of hundred I'd tend to agree with the people you've spoken to.

grahamlthompson · 03-09-2010, 16:57

My Son In Laws Samsung is the same. To be honest the cost of a replacement panel and labour is just not worth it especially at the price of new better specced TV's. Sad but a reflection on todays throw away society

haritorihanzo · 03-09-2010, 17:04

I think you find that a newer LCD would be of better quality, LCD`s from 4-5 years were still on a learning curve regards to production, today's panels are much better quality build and picture wise.

Nigel Goodwin · 03-09-2010, 17:18

From the sound of it, it needs the LCD panel replacing - assuming that a new panel is even available now, it's likely to exceed the original cost of the TV.

While sets are cheaper now, spare parts prices are baed on the price of the set back then - and generally the cost of a panel (even without labour) exceeds the cost of the TV.

The main (only?) exception to this is Sony, where most panels are 'reasonably' priced, but 'reasonably' still means a goodly percentage of the original cost, and a small number of panels are still silly prices.

Don't even think about Sharp, their panels are usually two to three times the cost of the entire set.

elefthg · 03-09-2010, 17:41

Thanks for your views everyone - just as I thought

Next one will defo have a 5 year warranty on it. Will try to ebay the faulty one for spares or repairs to at least contribute to the cost of a new one.

Now to research best replacement models.

Nigel Goodwin · 03-09-2010, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by elefthg

Thanks for your views everyone - just as I thought

Next one will defo have a 5 year warranty on it. Will try to ebay the faulty one for spares or repairs to at least contribute to the cost of a new one.

Now to research best replacement models.

PM me exactly where you are, I may be able to suggest your local Samsung repair agent, who are quite reasonable for examining sets.

Mike_1101 · 05-09-2010, 13:12

Does this apply to LCD televisions? I can't think why it shouldn't.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=1719963

Nigel Goodwin · 05-09-2010, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_1101

Does this apply to LCD televisions? I can't think why it shouldn't.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=1719963

It doesn't apply to TV's because it doesn't apply to anything else, it's an often repeated fallacy.

In the UK the SOGA gives you six years 'rights', this isn't a warranty, but gives you that long to take them to court over a 'manufacturing defect' - but it's up to YOU to prove to the court it was a manufacturing defect.

Assuming you won?, the court would award you a percentage of the value of the set, depending on how old it is, and how long it could be expected to last.

The most useful use of the legislation is that it means the Supermarkets don't have a leg to stand on in court, as they offer no service or spares at all.

We've fairly recently had a couple of sets where Sony have offered substantial discounts off a new TV, because a certain IC was no longer available and had failed. The sets were five years old, and the customers were asked to pay £100 towards a new set, which was less than the actual repair cost would have been - a bargain!. This was due to the six year SOGA, and I imagine a FAR better deal than the court would award..

Mike_1101 · 05-09-2010, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

It doesn't apply to TV's because it doesn't apply to anything else, it's an often repeated fallacy.

In the UK the SOGA gives you six years 'rights', this isn't a warranty, but gives you that long to take them to court over a 'manufacturing defect' - but it's up to YOU to prove to the court it was a manufacturing defect.

Assuming you won?, the court would award you a percentage of the value of the set, depending on how old it is, and how long it could be expected to last.

The most useful use of the legislation is that it means the Supermarkets don't have a leg to stand on in court, as they offer no service or spares at all.

We've fairly recently had a couple of sets where Sony have offered substantial discounts off a new TV, because a certain IC was no longer available and had failed. The sets were five years old, and the customers were asked to pay £100 towards a new set, which was less than the actual repair cost would have been - a bargain!. This was due to the six year SOGA, and I imagine a FAR better deal than the court would award..

Fair enough, but it's pretty bad that expensive equipment can fail after 4 or 5 years and people have become used to thinking this is normal. Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced?

I still have a working Hitachi b&w portable from 1976 and 25" Panasonic CRT colour set from 1991.

What has changed?

drumtochty · 05-09-2010, 17:00

[quote=Mike_1101;43826560]Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced?

Mike

What UK law are you referung to here.

eddie

ProDave · 05-09-2010, 17:17

I've repaired about 20 LCD sets in the last year (all bought faulty from ebay, repaired and sold on)

SOME faults are repairable, but so much of the electronics is in the panel itself and that's generally not repairable (at least to us mere mortals)

During this time I have formed the opinion that LCD sets while good in many respects are simply too fragile and too unreliable. I would certainly not spend hundreds on one, I just wouldn't trust it would last long enough to justify the expense.

I only have 2 of them in use in my house now because I got them cheap and repaired them, so they are cheap enough that if they prove unreliable, the amount I have lost is affordable.

Mike_1101 · 05-09-2010, 17:37

[quote=drumtochty;43828402]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_1101

Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced?

Mike

What UK law are you referung to here.

eddie

Well I thought there was a legal requirement and having searched, it seems a bit elusive. Many other people thought the same.

I found this, although it relates to washing machines.
http://www.cus.net/electricity/subca...ppliances.html
"Washing machines carrying the European Eco-label must adhere to the following stringent criteria as denoted by the EU:

- The washing machine must use equal or less than 0.17 kWh of electricity per kg of washload for a 60C cotton cycle
- The machine must use equal or less than 12 litres of water per kg of washload on a 60C cotton cycle
- The machine must achive a spin extraction of less than 54% on a 60C cotton cycle
- During the wash cycle the machine noise must be below 56 dB(A) and in the spinning cycle it must be below 76 dB(A)
- The machine must bear clear volumetric or weight based markings on the detergent dispenser
- Clear and full instructions must be included with the washing machine so that the correct settings can be chosen for the applicable washload.
- A minimum of a two year guarantee must be offered with the certainty that parts for the washing machine will be available for a minimum of 12 years from purchase date.
- Plastics parts that are heavier than 25 grams must contain flame retardant substances and be free from carcinogenic toxic and substances detrimental to aquatic organisms or environment.
- The manufacturer must take back the machine or recycle at the end of its lifecycle at no additional cost".

I suppose a legal expert might be able to find a way of enforcing this against other product ranges. It appears to apply to refrigerators and dishwashers also.

Nigel Goodwin · 05-09-2010, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_1101

Fair enough, but it's pretty bad that expensive equipment can fail after 4 or 5 years and people have become used to thinking this is normal. Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced?

If I remember correctly, it was 7 years - but that was a LONG. LONG time ago - the legislation was dropped so long back I can't remember when it was.

The problem with spares and repairs is that the product is so cheap now,compare the price of a car 20 years ago and now, then compare the price of a TV with 30 years ago.

If you were paying 7 or 8 grand for your TV a few hundred quid for a repair doesn't sound so bad, but when the TV is been 'given away' for £400 it's an expensive repair.

Mike_1101 · 05-09-2010, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

If I remember correctly, it was 7 years - but that was a LONG. LONG time ago - the legislation was dropped so long back I can't remember when it was.

The problem with spares and repairs is that the product is so cheap now,compare the price of a car 20 years ago and now, then compare the price of a TV with 30 years ago.

If you were paying 7 or 8 grand for your TV a few hundred quid for a repair doesn't sound so bad, but when the TV is been 'given away' for £400 it's an expensive repair.

Quite true, but not really sustainable is it? This is now an era of austerity and I would not be happy having to junk a relatively new piece of equipment after 4 or 5 years.

In the past it was possible to replace individual components when they failed, difficult with the tightly packed circuits used today.

Are the LCDs of 2010 that much better than those of 2005?

tellyman · 05-09-2010, 19:38

It would be true to say that the latest lcd sets are in the main more straight forward to repair than their earlier counterparts. But due to the high cost of spares,they are often discarded for new replacements. I think the reason is that the cost of new sets has dropped so much in recent times due to the low price points used by supermarkets,mainly on their budget types. As people these days tend to buy on price alone, it meant that more upmarket brands started producing low priced product to compete. These are usually produced down to a cost by including cheaper components,which leads to lesser reliability.

Nigel Goodwin · 05-09-2010, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_1101

Quite true, but not really sustainable is it? This is now an era of austerity and I would not be happy having to junk a relatively new piece of equipment after 4 or 5 years.

That's rather a circular argument, as it's an 'austere era' you expect the sets to be cheap, yet you expect them to last a long time with cheap spares and repairs.

You can't have your cake and eat it

Quote:

In the past it was possible to replace individual components when they failed, difficult with the tightly packed circuits used today.

To a lesser extent you do generally replace individual parts.

Quote:

Are the LCDs of 2010 that much better than those of 2005?

They are certainly a LOT cheaper, and perform better as well - decent makes should give a decent life, the cheap junk ones will generally have much shorter lifes, and it's unlikely spares will ever be available.

People generally have no idea how the system works, basically it's like this:

Say I want to start selling TV's, I place an order with the Hong Kong Crap Company for 100,000 sets with my own 'badge' on it.

At the same time as I place the order, I order spare parts for the anticipated failures over the next 6 to 7 years (to meet my responsibilities under the SOGA. I then need to set up a spares storage and distribution system to administer these parts both in and out of warranty.

This is waht is supposed to happen, and what any reputable company does, however the Supermarkets order the sets but don't order any spares, so their sets are effectively unrepairable.

For any one who remembers Woolworths selling Crown TV's, the same thing applied - they bought the sets directly from outside the UK, and there were never any spares available for them. The sets were nothing whatsoever to do with the UK company Crown, who couldn't supply either spares or information about them.

A further example was Amstrad,they ordered their Sky Digiboxes (DRX100) from Samsung, but neglected to order any spares at all - Samsung built the boxes according to the contract, but didn't keep any spares for them, it wasn't their box, it was Amstrad's, so there were no spares for DRX100's.

Spares support is a VERY expensive business, Sharp seem to partially avoid it by pricing their expensive parts stupidly high - with CRT's (and now LCD panels) been priced at two to three times the original retail price of the sets. This means they only need to keep small numbers in stock, because they will never sell them - yet meet their responsibilities. After six or seven years is up, the tubes/panels are crushed and disposed of, as they no longer need to be able to supply them.

iangrad · 05-09-2010, 23:15

I think the "8 year availability" of spare parts was a RETRA code of conduct .
Question
(A) do RETRA still exist ?
(B) do any manufactures / importers / Re badgers of Vestel / Chinese goods adhere to any code or even know or care about servicing / repairs ?
Ian

Nigel Goodwin · 06-09-2010, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by iangrad

I think the "8 year availability" of spare parts was a RETRA code of conduct .

Not as far as I'm aware.

Quote:

Question
(A) do RETRA still exist ?

Yes they do, and still doing great things for the trade.

Quote:

(B) do any manufactures / importers / Re badgers of Vestel / Chinese goods adhere to any code or even know or care about servicing / repairs ?
Ian

Vestel and China don't need to conform to anything, they don't trade in the UK. It's the companies selling the products here which need to.

iangrad · 06-09-2010, 11:36

Thanks Nigel
The retra web site now quotes "life expectations" as opposed to spares availability as it used to in a changing world .

http://www.retra.co.uk/code-of-practice/code13.asp
Ian

Nigel Goodwin · 06-09-2010, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by iangrad

Thanks Nigel
The retra web site now quotes "life expectations" as opposed to spares availability as it used to in a changing world .

http://www.retra.co.uk/code-of-practice/code13.asp
Ian

Thanks for that, an interesting list

Mike_1101 · 06-09-2010, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

That's rather a circular argument, as it's an 'austere era' you expect the sets to be cheap, yet you expect them to last a long time with cheap spares and repairs.

You can't have your cake and eat it

To a lesser extent you do generally replace individual parts.

They are certainly a LOT cheaper, and perform better as well - decent makes should give a decent life, the cheap junk ones will generally have much shorter lifes, and it's unlikely spares will ever be available.

People generally have no idea how the system works, basically it's like this:

Say I want to start selling TV's, I place an order with the Hong Kong Crap Company for 100,000 sets with my own 'badge' on it.

At the same time as I place the order, I order spare parts for the anticipated failures over the next 6 to 7 years (to meet my responsibilities under the SOGA. I then need to set up a spares storage and distribution system to administer these parts both in and out of warranty.

This is waht is supposed to happen, and what any reputable company does, however the Supermarkets order the sets but don't order any spares, so their sets are effectively unrepairable.

For any one who remembers Woolworths selling Crown TV's, the same thing applied - they bought the sets directly from outside the UK, and there were never any spares available for them. The sets were nothing whatsoever to do with the UK company Crown, who couldn't supply either spares or information about them.

A further example was Amstrad,they ordered their Sky Digiboxes (DRX100) from Samsung, but neglected to order any spares at all - Samsung built the boxes according to the contract, but didn't keep any spares for them, it wasn't their box, it was Amstrad's, so there were no spares for DRX100's.

Spares support is a VERY expensive business, Sharp seem to partially avoid it by pricing their expensive parts stupidly high - with CRT's (and now LCD panels) been priced at two to three times the original retail price of the sets. This means they only need to keep small numbers in stock, because they will never sell them - yet meet their responsibilities. After six or seven years is up, the tubes/panels are crushed and disposed of, as they no longer need to be able to supply them.

I looked and found this company selling LCD/Plasma spares
http://www.chsinteractive.co.uk/elec...es-repair.html
although I suspect you will have dealt with them.

bobcar · 07-09-2010, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by iangrad

Thanks Nigel
The retra web site now quotes "life expectations" as opposed to spares availability as it used to in a changing world .

http://www.retra.co.uk/code-of-practice/code13.asp
Ian

Most of the times quoted seem way to short, I'd expect the appliances to last longer than that and for spares to be available for longer. Indeed the vast majority of appliances I've bought have lasted considerably longer.

Not all industries are so poor at maintaining spares provision. I had no problems getting spares for my parents 20 year old power shower. Obviously it's easier with something where technology changes at a slower pace but much obsolescence seems deliberate.

Nigel Goodwin · 07-09-2010, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_1101

I looked and found this company selling LCD/Plasma spares
http://www.chsinteractive.co.uk/elec...es-repair.html
although I suspect you will have dealt with them.

Yes, there are various companies selling spares, but CHS are a popular choice.

Nigel Goodwin · 07-09-2010, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Most of the times quoted seem way to short, I'd expect the appliances to last longer than that and for spares to be available for longer. Indeed the vast majority of appliances I've bought have lasted considerably longer.

Not all industries are so poor at maintaining spares provision. I had no problems getting spares for my parents 20 year old power shower. Obviously it's easier with something where technology changes at a slower pace but much obsolescence seems deliberate.

Technology marches on a LOT faster in electronics than plumbing

For example, you may use a particular IC in a TV - that IC is probably only manufactured for 12 months, after that it's obselete and can't be obtained any more.

This is why the set manufacturers have to order all their spares while the sets are still in production - guessing how many might be needed in the future.

In the Sony example I mentioned above, it was an IC maufactured by philips Components, it was no longer available and due to a higher than expected failure rate Sony had exhausted all their srocks.

People want cheap, they can't have cheap along with long term spares support - it's that simple.

03-09-2010, 16:11	#1
elefthg Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 4	Are faulty LCD TVs worth repairing? Title sums it up really. I have a 4 1/2 year old 40" samsung lcd tv that yesterday started to show lots of snowy lines across the screen accompanied by a purple vertical line to the left of the screen. It would get better after a few minutes (but not totally right). Today it is much worse and does not improve. I've made a couple of phone calls to local tv repair people who seem to think it's a panel issue and are telling me not to bother repairing it. As it cost me £2000 at the time, it seems such a waste. Does anyone have a view on this? Thanks.

03-09-2010, 16:42	#2
hardeep Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 2,163	To be honest you could get a new TV - like a KDL40EX503 - for under £700 which would be better PQ and feature wise. Unless the repair is around a couple of hundred I'd tend to agree with the people you've spoken to.

03-09-2010, 16:57	#3
grahamlthompson Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redditch Worcs Posts: 17,293	My Son In Laws Samsung is the same. To be honest the cost of a replacement panel and labour is just not worth it especially at the price of new better specced TV's. Sad but a reflection on todays throw away society

03-09-2010, 17:04	#4
haritorihanzo Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 197	I think you find that a newer LCD would be of better quality, LCD`s from 4-5 years were still on a learning curve regards to production, today's panels are much better quality build and picture wise.

03-09-2010, 17:18	#5
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	From the sound of it, it needs the LCD panel replacing - assuming that a new panel is even available now, it's likely to exceed the original cost of the TV. While sets are cheaper now, spare parts prices are baed on the price of the set back then - and generally the cost of a panel (even without labour) exceeds the cost of the TV. The main (only?) exception to this is Sony, where most panels are 'reasonably' priced, but 'reasonably' still means a goodly percentage of the original cost, and a small number of panels are still silly prices. Don't even think about Sharp, their panels are usually two to three times the cost of the entire set.

03-09-2010, 17:41	#6
elefthg Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 4	Thanks for your views everyone - just as I thought Next one will defo have a 5 year warranty on it. Will try to ebay the faulty one for spares or repairs to at least contribute to the cost of a new one. Now to research best replacement models.

03-09-2010, 21:42	#7
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by elefthg Thanks for your views everyone - just as I thought Next one will defo have a 5 year warranty on it. Will try to ebay the faulty one for spares or repairs to at least contribute to the cost of a new one. Now to research best replacement models. PM me exactly where you are, I may be able to suggest your local Samsung repair agent, who are quite reasonable for examining sets.

05-09-2010, 13:12	#8
Mike_1101 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lancs Posts: 7,928	Does this apply to LCD televisions? I can't think why it shouldn't. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=1719963

05-09-2010, 14:23	#9
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Mike_1101 Does this apply to LCD televisions? I can't think why it shouldn't. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=1719963 It doesn't apply to TV's because it doesn't apply to anything else, it's an often repeated fallacy. In the UK the SOGA gives you six years 'rights', this isn't a warranty, but gives you that long to take them to court over a 'manufacturing defect' - but it's up to YOU to prove to the court it was a manufacturing defect. Assuming you won?, the court would award you a percentage of the value of the set, depending on how old it is, and how long it could be expected to last. The most useful use of the legislation is that it means the Supermarkets don't have a leg to stand on in court, as they offer no service or spares at all. We've fairly recently had a couple of sets where Sony have offered substantial discounts off a new TV, because a certain IC was no longer available and had failed. The sets were five years old, and the customers were asked to pay £100 towards a new set, which was less than the actual repair cost would have been - a bargain!. This was due to the six year SOGA, and I imagine a FAR better deal than the court would award..

05-09-2010, 15:54	#10
Mike_1101 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lancs Posts: 7,928	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin It doesn't apply to TV's because it doesn't apply to anything else, it's an often repeated fallacy. In the UK the SOGA gives you six years 'rights', this isn't a warranty, but gives you that long to take them to court over a 'manufacturing defect' - but it's up to YOU to prove to the court it was a manufacturing defect. Assuming you won?, the court would award you a percentage of the value of the set, depending on how old it is, and how long it could be expected to last. The most useful use of the legislation is that it means the Supermarkets don't have a leg to stand on in court, as they offer no service or spares at all. We've fairly recently had a couple of sets where Sony have offered substantial discounts off a new TV, because a certain IC was no longer available and had failed. The sets were five years old, and the customers were asked to pay £100 towards a new set, which was less than the actual repair cost would have been - a bargain!. This was due to the six year SOGA, and I imagine a FAR better deal than the court would award.. Fair enough, but it's pretty bad that expensive equipment can fail after 4 or 5 years and people have become used to thinking this is normal. Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced? I still have a working Hitachi b&w portable from 1976 and 25" Panasonic CRT colour set from 1991. What has changed?

05-09-2010, 17:00	#11
drumtochty Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auchenblae Posts: 228	[quote=Mike_1101;43826560]Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced? Mike What UK law are you referung to here. eddie

05-09-2010, 17:17	#12
ProDave Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northern Scottish Highlands Posts: 11,307	I've repaired about 20 LCD sets in the last year (all bought faulty from ebay, repaired and sold on) SOME faults are repairable, but so much of the electronics is in the panel itself and that's generally not repairable (at least to us mere mortals) During this time I have formed the opinion that LCD sets while good in many respects are simply too fragile and too unreliable. I would certainly not spend hundreds on one, I just wouldn't trust it would last long enough to justify the expense. I only have 2 of them in use in my house now because I got them cheap and repaired them, so they are cheap enough that if they prove unreliable, the amount I have lost is affordable.

05-09-2010, 17:37	#13
Mike_1101 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lancs Posts: 7,928	[quote=drumtochty;43828402] Quote: Originally Posted by Mike_1101 Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced? Mike What UK law are you referung to here. eddie Well I thought there was a legal requirement and having searched, it seems a bit elusive. Many other people thought the same. I found this, although it relates to washing machines. http://www.cus.net/electricity/subca...ppliances.html "Washing machines carrying the European Eco-label must adhere to the following stringent criteria as denoted by the EU: - The washing machine must use equal or less than 0.17 kWh of electricity per kg of washload for a 60C cotton cycle - The machine must use equal or less than 12 litres of water per kg of washload on a 60C cotton cycle - The machine must achive a spin extraction of less than 54% on a 60C cotton cycle - During the wash cycle the machine noise must be below 56 dB(A) and in the spinning cycle it must be below 76 dB(A) - The machine must bear clear volumetric or weight based markings on the detergent dispenser - Clear and full instructions must be included with the washing machine so that the correct settings can be chosen for the applicable washload. - A minimum of a two year guarantee must be offered with the certainty that parts for the washing machine will be available for a minimum of 12 years from purchase date. - Plastics parts that are heavier than 25 grams must contain flame retardant substances and be free from carcinogenic toxic and substances detrimental to aquatic organisms or environment. - The manufacturer must take back the machine or recycle at the end of its lifecycle at no additional cost". I suppose a legal expert might be able to find a way of enforcing this against other product ranges. It appears to apply to refrigerators and dishwashers also.

05-09-2010, 18:30	#14
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Mike_1101 Fair enough, but it's pretty bad that expensive equipment can fail after 4 or 5 years and people have become used to thinking this is normal. Aren't replacement parts supposed to be available for a minimum of 8 years by law? If so why is it not enforced? If I remember correctly, it was 7 years - but that was a LONG. LONG time ago - the legislation was dropped so long back I can't remember when it was. The problem with spares and repairs is that the product is so cheap now,compare the price of a car 20 years ago and now, then compare the price of a TV with 30 years ago. If you were paying 7 or 8 grand for your TV a few hundred quid for a repair doesn't sound so bad, but when the TV is been 'given away' for £400 it's an expensive repair.

05-09-2010, 18:53	#15
Mike_1101 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lancs Posts: 7,928	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin If I remember correctly, it was 7 years - but that was a LONG. LONG time ago - the legislation was dropped so long back I can't remember when it was. The problem with spares and repairs is that the product is so cheap now,compare the price of a car 20 years ago and now, then compare the price of a TV with 30 years ago. If you were paying 7 or 8 grand for your TV a few hundred quid for a repair doesn't sound so bad, but when the TV is been 'given away' for £400 it's an expensive repair. Quite true, but not really sustainable is it? This is now an era of austerity and I would not be happy having to junk a relatively new piece of equipment after 4 or 5 years. In the past it was possible to replace individual components when they failed, difficult with the tightly packed circuits used today. Are the LCDs of 2010 that much better than those of 2005?

05-09-2010, 19:38	#16
tellyman Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: portsmouth Posts: 433	It would be true to say that the latest lcd sets are in the main more straight forward to repair than their earlier counterparts. But due to the high cost of spares,they are often discarded for new replacements. I think the reason is that the cost of new sets has dropped so much in recent times due to the low price points used by supermarkets,mainly on their budget types. As people these days tend to buy on price alone, it meant that more upmarket brands started producing low priced product to compete. These are usually produced down to a cost by including cheaper components,which leads to lesser reliability.

05-09-2010, 22:54	#17
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Mike_1101 Quite true, but not really sustainable is it? This is now an era of austerity and I would not be happy having to junk a relatively new piece of equipment after 4 or 5 years. That's rather a circular argument, as it's an 'austere era' you expect the sets to be cheap, yet you expect them to last a long time with cheap spares and repairs. You can't have your cake and eat it Quote: In the past it was possible to replace individual components when they failed, difficult with the tightly packed circuits used today. To a lesser extent you do generally replace individual parts. Quote: Are the LCDs of 2010 that much better than those of 2005? They are certainly a LOT cheaper, and perform better as well - decent makes should give a decent life, the cheap junk ones will generally have much shorter lifes, and it's unlikely spares will ever be available. People generally have no idea how the system works, basically it's like this: Say I want to start selling TV's, I place an order with the Hong Kong Crap Company for 100,000 sets with my own 'badge' on it. At the same time as I place the order, I order spare parts for the anticipated failures over the next 6 to 7 years (to meet my responsibilities under the SOGA. I then need to set up a spares storage and distribution system to administer these parts both in and out of warranty. This is waht is supposed to happen, and what any reputable company does, however the Supermarkets order the sets but don't order any spares, so their sets are effectively unrepairable. For any one who remembers Woolworths selling Crown TV's, the same thing applied - they bought the sets directly from outside the UK, and there were never any spares available for them. The sets were nothing whatsoever to do with the UK company Crown, who couldn't supply either spares or information about them. A further example was Amstrad,they ordered their Sky Digiboxes (DRX100) from Samsung, but neglected to order any spares at all - Samsung built the boxes according to the contract, but didn't keep any spares for them, it wasn't their box, it was Amstrad's, so there were no spares for DRX100's. Spares support is a VERY expensive business, Sharp seem to partially avoid it by pricing their expensive parts stupidly high - with CRT's (and now LCD panels) been priced at two to three times the original retail price of the sets. This means they only need to keep small numbers in stock, because they will never sell them - yet meet their responsibilities. After six or seven years is up, the tubes/panels are crushed and disposed of, as they no longer need to be able to supply them.

05-09-2010, 23:15	#18
iangrad Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 772	I think the "8 year availability" of spare parts was a RETRA code of conduct . Question (A) do RETRA still exist ? (B) do any manufactures / importers / Re badgers of Vestel / Chinese goods adhere to any code or even know or care about servicing / repairs ? Ian

06-09-2010, 08:56	#19
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by iangrad I think the "8 year availability" of spare parts was a RETRA code of conduct . Not as far as I'm aware. Quote: Question (A) do RETRA still exist ? Yes they do, and still doing great things for the trade. Quote: (B) do any manufactures / importers / Re badgers of Vestel / Chinese goods adhere to any code or even know or care about servicing / repairs ? Ian Vestel and China don't need to conform to anything, they don't trade in the UK. It's the companies selling the products here which need to.

06-09-2010, 11:36	#20
iangrad Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 772	Thanks Nigel The retra web site now quotes "life expectations" as opposed to spares availability as it used to in a changing world . http://www.retra.co.uk/code-of-practice/code13.asp Ian

06-09-2010, 11:47	#21
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by iangrad Thanks Nigel The retra web site now quotes "life expectations" as opposed to spares availability as it used to in a changing world . http://www.retra.co.uk/code-of-practice/code13.asp Ian Thanks for that, an interesting list

DS Forums

Are faulty LCD TVs worth repairing?

06-09-2010, 23:07	#22
Mike_1101 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lancs Posts: 7,928	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin That's rather a circular argument, as it's an 'austere era' you expect the sets to be cheap, yet you expect them to last a long time with cheap spares and repairs. You can't have your cake and eat it To a lesser extent you do generally replace individual parts. They are certainly a LOT cheaper, and perform better as well - decent makes should give a decent life, the cheap junk ones will generally have much shorter lifes, and it's unlikely spares will ever be available. People generally have no idea how the system works, basically it's like this: Say I want to start selling TV's, I place an order with the Hong Kong Crap Company for 100,000 sets with my own 'badge' on it. At the same time as I place the order, I order spare parts for the anticipated failures over the next 6 to 7 years (to meet my responsibilities under the SOGA. I then need to set up a spares storage and distribution system to administer these parts both in and out of warranty. This is waht is supposed to happen, and what any reputable company does, however the Supermarkets order the sets but don't order any spares, so their sets are effectively unrepairable. For any one who remembers Woolworths selling Crown TV's, the same thing applied - they bought the sets directly from outside the UK, and there were never any spares available for them. The sets were nothing whatsoever to do with the UK company Crown, who couldn't supply either spares or information about them. A further example was Amstrad,they ordered their Sky Digiboxes (DRX100) from Samsung, but neglected to order any spares at all - Samsung built the boxes according to the contract, but didn't keep any spares for them, it wasn't their box, it was Amstrad's, so there were no spares for DRX100's. Spares support is a VERY expensive business, Sharp seem to partially avoid it by pricing their expensive parts stupidly high - with CRT's (and now LCD panels) been priced at two to three times the original retail price of the sets. This means they only need to keep small numbers in stock, because they will never sell them - yet meet their responsibilities. After six or seven years is up, the tubes/panels are crushed and disposed of, as they no longer need to be able to supply them. I looked and found this company selling LCD/Plasma spares http://www.chsinteractive.co.uk/elec...es-repair.html although I suspect you will have dealt with them.

07-09-2010, 02:14	#23
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by iangrad Thanks Nigel The retra web site now quotes "life expectations" as opposed to spares availability as it used to in a changing world . http://www.retra.co.uk/code-of-practice/code13.asp Ian Most of the times quoted seem way to short, I'd expect the appliances to last longer than that and for spares to be available for longer. Indeed the vast majority of appliances I've bought have lasted considerably longer. Not all industries are so poor at maintaining spares provision. I had no problems getting spares for my parents 20 year old power shower. Obviously it's easier with something where technology changes at a slower pace but much obsolescence seems deliberate.

07-09-2010, 08:59	#24
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Mike_1101 I looked and found this company selling LCD/Plasma spares http://www.chsinteractive.co.uk/elec...es-repair.html although I suspect you will have dealt with them. Yes, there are various companies selling spares, but CHS are a popular choice.

07-09-2010, 09:05	#25
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar Most of the times quoted seem way to short, I'd expect the appliances to last longer than that and for spares to be available for longer. Indeed the vast majority of appliances I've bought have lasted considerably longer. Not all industries are so poor at maintaining spares provision. I had no problems getting spares for my parents 20 year old power shower. Obviously it's easier with something where technology changes at a slower pace but much obsolescence seems deliberate. Technology marches on a LOT faster in electronics than plumbing For example, you may use a particular IC in a TV - that IC is probably only manufactured for 12 months, after that it's obselete and can't be obtained any more. This is why the set manufacturers have to order all their spares while the sets are still in production - guessing how many might be needed in the future. In the Sony example I mentioned above, it was an IC maufactured by philips Components, it was no longer available and due to a higher than expected failure rate Sony had exhausted all their srocks. People want cheap, they can't have cheap along with long term spares support - it's that simple.