We have had some good PVRs for Freesat in the time of Freesat.

But we have seen the many ideas that may or may not be on a box.

I would like add a list of ideas to give a full public TV system to all the UK.

A box with Freesat HD & freeview HD would be great for plug and play TV.

1) Hard Drive size for HD use to higher then 1TB in all new boxes.
2) Hard Drive could be sold drive, so no sounds from drive booting up or down ?
3) Two HMDI to link TV & PC for viewing or recording ?
4) 2 x USB 3.0
5) 4 x LNB would give four shows ?
6) Internal power pack for recording without the need to have the box on at nights or on holiday ? or to finish recording if home power goes.?
7) Internet ready software for the box to link to your ISP for e-mail and Internet surfing fully.
8) Software link to Freesat / freeview sites for up dates and more.
9) Easy swappable Hard drive slots, so customer can up drive size at any time without any troubles.
10) Cam slots for cards.
11) more RAM inside for better speed and more able to have updates of softwares.
12) LCD screen on box for clear channel data, date, time, live epg listings on the box.
13) full buttons on the box for all use, in case the remote is lost or dead power.
14) DVD or Blue ray recorder to record the TV or from hard drive.
15) SD card reader for your Holiday photos or movies.
16) 6 digit code in put for you to lock the box fully to your home use only, to stop lost to break ins as the box would never work without the code put in once a week / month.

6) Is effectively an UPS which would bump the price up too much. People can always buy their own if needed. I can't see any real advantage from bundling a battery im the box.

9 and 14would be interesting, not convinced 12 would be worth the money and 16 would I'm sure prove to be a complete nightmare with people constantly forgetting their own code. Besides which a freesat box is not really a high value item.

With a 1Tb solid state drive I think sales may be poor due to a very high price.

Automan.

Did you mean solid state?

If so it would be prohibitively expensive, especially if (1) was adopted.


One of the things about HDMI is that it's 'protected' to stop people recording from it.


USB3 would be nice, but why 2? (An extra one shouldn't add much to the cost, though as you'd already have most of the logic for one.(

You mean 4 tuners?

Possibly overkill for most people but 3 would be nice.

Prohibitively expensive.

Is this a problem at the moment?

Would increase the expense considerably and I'd rather get rid of it altogether and use a few status LED's under the flap for diagnostics.

Would be expensive and seems like overkill given that you can get multi-device zappers easily and cheaply.

Expensive and changes it to a different class of device. Not wanted by a lot of people.

Again, it's a PVR. Why add cost for features that are not part of it's prime purpose. (My box doesn't even recognise jpg's that work ony any Windows.Linux machine.)

Significant risk of people bricking their box.

What the op has suggested sounds great, if you have £1000 to spare.

Perhaps I could add the suggestion that we have some half decent programs to watch too.....

An esata port you could record to would be nice. Handling 3 or 4 tuners sounds like a firmware nightmare to me. Why not allow the box to record up to 4 at once as it could with it's current hardware (The icord can)

Why?

If the software in competently written it should scale easily.

It would be helpful but you would still get clashes and there would be combinations of channels that weren't possible.

Better than nothing, though and no extra hardware costs.

I also think 3 or 4 satellite tuners would be overkill. Especially when we're talking about a combined Freesat & Freeview HD box (so 2 Freeview HD tuners as well?). How many programs do you want to record at the same time?

I suspect as the cost of the freeview tuners come down that we might see them integrated into freesat+ HD boxes. But only if the advantages appeal to enough purchasers to outweight the extra cost involved.

A few years back I remember reading about a prototype Freeview box that essentially could record all the programs broadcast over the previous 30 days. It looked like a nice idea at the time but I suspect we're moving away from that model. We'll probably end up recording a few broadcast programs that are important to us and watch everything else via Iplayer(s) and VOD.

I also think these boxes will continue to look as simple as possible on the outside, just a small black box, and all the intelligence will be hidden inside, using the TV for the display and the remote for the interaction. This approach is the way we want to use them and avoids un-necessary cost.

Mike

Very occasionally three. This usually happens because you are recording two at the same time and the end of these two overlap the beginning of the third.

The much more common problem, however, is handling accurate record/padding and is most easily explained by an example.

Suppose you want to record a programme on C1 that runs from 9-10 and one on C2 that runs at the same time. You also want to record a programme on C3 that runs from 10-11.

If you have accurate record and the C1 and C2 programmes overrun slightly or the C3 Programme starts slightly early you will get a conflict. If you are using padding you will get a conflict.

(This example assumes that the three channels are such that you need three tuners.)

Where 4 tuners might be useful is if (and we are now talking a high-end super duper PVR!) there is a server product which could stream to remote slaves around the house.

You therefore have one PVR with a huge hard disk and multiple tuners and each room/TV in the house can effectively have its own virtual PVR.

I doubt the market for Freesat alone is worth the expense of such a product, but maybe if the tuners were interchangeable so you could plug in whatever combinations of Freeview and Freesat tuners you wanted, it might be viable. Also accessible slots for hard disks, you could then choose whether you want SSDs, for speed, power and noise issues, as balanced against cost and capacity.

Taking PVR technology to the next level. Do it before Sky do!

Not sure about all the internet and media stuff - there are devices that can do all this much better than a PVR can.

But I do like a nice, attractive VFD display that is large enough to show the channel and the programme without scrolling or truncation!

I believe I have mentioned this before, the roadmap for next generation Freesat products is being reviewed, so the press-peak that was given last Christmas no longer stands. But I will reaffirm our commitment to supporting Freesat both with our existing ranges and we have a good relationship for products going forward. So, nothing to worry about.


As hard disk prices change this becomes increasingly viable, it won't be long but at the moment 1TB has a significant premium.

This is incredibly expensive for a PVR, it would easily more than triple the cost.

For multiroom we are focusing on networking which is much more viable for most users. Two HDMIs is niche.

I honestly don't know how far off USB3 is from being mainstream in such silicon, but when it is we will support it, but manufacturers are at the mercy of others in this regard.

Again, something of a niche here, very few people have four satellite feeds in their lounge so in effect this would be a feature few could exploit (unless perhaps they used half loop-through).

Not really very practical and in the end as I like to say 'it is only TV'.

Our current research shows that most of these things are personal experiences and that reading email is not a public activity. As such doing emails and social networking via the TV isn't as practical or attractive as it first sounds. Obviously there may be exceptions to this and the possibility of accessing webmail for some would be excellent but for the majority it is not a useful feature. As for full internet browsing, it will likely never happen as the ecosystem currently stands. Even if we could get around the fact that the internet is so awash with double standards, plug-ins and odd software that it would require a PC level of power (we are getting closer), the problem is that web pages are not designed to be shown on a TV screen. Most content and navigation of websites is a nightmare on a TV at 10ft away from the screen. We are adding internet features to products but as a general internet terminal it won't practically work.

Humax does have this on the roadmap for future products.

This has been tried before and it was quite unsuccessful. It increases the probability of failure, it increases consumer confusion and oddly doesn't aid servicing. Oh, and it increases the cost incrementally and for most people changing the disk is a low priority action, so they won't want to pay extra for it.

The Foxsat-HDR has a CAM slot, as do most of our PVR products. On the basic zapper products it is less economical to add.

We balance the requests for features with the cost and the request not to have features. A great many people want the minimum of the front panel and navigating via the front panel is certainly not a priority for most people.

Again as 12.

We have been looking at this for the past few years on and off. We have struggled to justify optical media in the face of the economies of scale of hard disk media and flash disks. I would have liked to have seen a USB DVD-R accessory for basic file backup but more importantly for retail DVD playback, but alas I don't think it will happen.

Some people have reported that attaching a USB SD card reader works but I can't confirm this. Also I have successfully directly attached some smart phones and cameras which support USB mass storage mode.

If you note the serial number of the product you can always report the product stolen to us and we can keep an eye out for it via support. On next generation products we could look at a system when we implement the internet services side which spots stolen products. But overall it isn't terribly common and even were it is stolen you are unlikely to get it back even if it was useless as it would be just binned by the thieves. As the police recommend, writing your postcode on the bottom/back with invisible ink is the best way of ensuring your products return if stolen. Thank you for the suggestion however and I will look at this for future products.

One of the reason for more RAM in the box for software updates etc, is also to hold on overlap of shows to allow the Hard drive take four shows in time.

Most hard drives have buffer that able to hold on data so the drive disks can be work at the speeds adverts say, so extra in the box will add to the buffer of the drive, so that any overlap could be handled easy.

Also one of the reason for Internet / media is that space is the main trouble with our public TV systems because people at the top can not plan p*** up in a brewery, so Internet will be the only way that shows replays, or new channels may come is by the Internet like companies are doing now eg, very tangy TV, 3view, BT vision and others.

We have BBC iPlayer at this time, but ITV is going to come soon.

We need the best for the UK public TV systems so a box / TV is a big part of Digital HD and with us all working longer hours because of pressure of jobs markets and at different time of day & night PVR's are the only way to give us good TV viewing.

The UK public TV system must be steady and be able to give us all box's / TV's that we do not have up grade every year as it has looked like in the pass....
We had boxes that give us wide screen digital, with card slots, with it able to e-mail, and Internet, then freeview came and the box's were cheap to get the public to buy into the digital TV world, so the DSO could come. then box's come back with slots as pay TV came back public system. then we got PVR's that gave us a real choice, then we got new HD which needs new box's that can handle two types of software for the SD & HD channels.

Now we have Freesat that is part of the public TV system of the UK as Freeview has become a mess with space, price for channels to be there is too high, the DSO is slow, and not all will get all channels. Freesat has given us HD at the start and then good PVR's and now BBC iPlayer too.

SO we need the next boxes to be able to handle all and to last for some years........

Just out of interest (and assuming you don't mean putting a CAM on a remote control), why do you insist on using this confusing terminology.

In CE terms a zapper is commonly understood to mean a remote control device. Why use a term that has a well know meaning in a particular context to mean something completely different?

Unless someone is aware of your rather bizarre usage of the word (which does not appear to be supported by any of the 'front page' definitions of a Google search), you are very likely to confuse them.

Why do you do this?

Why do you feel it necessary to use a word in a way that is at odds with what virtually everyone understands it to mean.

What, exactly, does a non PVR box zap?

I use it because it is terminology within our working culture, you may not recognise it but others do. There is no standard terminology for a non-recorder product other than perhaps "basic STB" which isn't clear enough to many of us who make the products and thus we use zapper. Unlike you I have never used the word Zapper to describe the IR remote and I have never seen it used before in that context.

You point to the definitions on google, only one of the five reference google has is about TV remotes, the third and fourth references are to the Zapper being a term used for a channel surfer or hopper, in that context it is used because the device is not traditionally a player but is instead just for surfing the current broadcast TV. Two of the other references being about bug zappers.

But that brings us firmly off topic.

One suggestion here is to link something to any remote record possibility - to capture the last IP address and timestamp for the purchaser to give to the police if stolen.

Any comment on the ease of an Esata connection?

I agree, we should have a set top box with Freeview HD and Freesat HD built-in, plus with Project Canvas on it,
maybe one will launch in 2011,
in time for the launch of the other Project Canvas boxes

More information about Project Canvas
can be seen at www.projectcanvas.info

Is the 'working culture' you refer to just within Humax?, I'd never heard of it before Humax suddenly started using it - except apart from the common usage for a remote control (which I've never used, but is in VERY common usage).

I also don't know anyone else in the TV trade that has ever heard of a 'zapper'as anything other than a remote control, I would suggest that it's probably caused more harm than good calling it that.

http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/download_schedule.php

bottom of the page.

They are clearly a specialist group that work in close collaboration with Humax and have picked up their silly habit. Or, maybe they are talking about a download for the remote control - who knows.

It's beyond stupid to choose to use a term that already has a well known meaning in such a similar contest.

Basically, it's just a daft affectation.

Perhaps we should start a trend to refer to PVR's as 'HDMI cables'.

Weird isn't it. I too, what only a few years ago before I got involved with PVR Junction, would have made the assumption a zapper was a remote control.

zapper is a term used for STB within the industry. It might sound silly, but thats just the way it is.

Within consumer land, well, I would be very suprised however if any of my family or friends knew what a zapper was anyway. It wouldn't be in the context of digital receiver put it that way. Maybe a remote control, like you say

Which industry? - no one had ever heard it until Humax mysteriously started misusing it.

Is that so Nigel

It really doesn't matter if it's some 'in' word used 'within the industry'.

Using it on a user focused forum where there are guaranteed to be newcomers who are going to be completely flummoxed by the word - whether they use the term 'zapper' for a remote control or not is inconsiderate and discourteous.

It's rather akin to those leery idiots - plumbers, car mechanics, what have you - who insist on talking in obscure 'insider speak' when dealing with members of the public.

It's just puerile and would be best ignored apart from the confusion it's likely to cause.

Unusually, for once I am with Nigel on this one.