Threats? Are you speaking specifically about this thread or just in general? I don't think anyone has gone over the top here. Terms like prat and miserable git are hardly classed as vilification are they? He can't have it both ways.
If you mean generally then I would be inclined to agree with you. You could say anything negative or indeed positive about many things and you'll get vilified by some, yes. Go onto a pc fan site and sing the praises of any mac product or vice-versa for example and people can go over the top in what may start as defense. I agree it's the nature of the beast but we're all passionate or defensive about something however silly that may seem to others. I don't see that happening here yet unless I missed something.
I think your point about people hiding behind a screen is only valid as far as Trolls go, actually looking for an argument.

As I said, it is an Internet problem - the classic example is the Poster that wished RTD caught AIDS and died for casting Catherine Tate in DW (and this on a dedicated DW forum)

What comes across (and what I was trying to get across) is that hurling insults around is nothing exccept an indication of rank ignorance and lack of intelligence...as for "prat" and "miserable git", well they may not be the worst expletives in the world but would any of the cowardly propogaters actually have the nerve to say these things to Trevor Eve's face? No, they wouldn't but somehow it's just become fine to do it on the Internet...and I find that particularly sad and before you ask, I am speaking as someone who has been so riled by Posts (on the Showbiz Forum mostly) that I have found myself succumbing to the spontaneous "slag off" Post so this is not a holier than thou observation...the fact is, just because it is safe and easy to slag someone off via the Internet, it doesn't make it justified.

Yeah - I don't think I'll bother commenting on that in this forum. Other than that he's talking from the point of view of an insider (which I'm not) and he's given that matter some thought (I haven't). But he doesn't seem to be talking about Doctor Who.

I started to type my opinion of what Eve said but have just noticed that Chuffnobbler has said pretty much everything I was going to say. You can pick apart every syllable of Eve's (as if we're Paxman and he's the Chancellor on budget day), but the gist is what Chuff interpreted.

Anyhoo...Anyone get the film reference in the OP opening statement and my response yesterday? I never know whether these things are obscure or not.

I don't believe that "classic example" is relevant in this instance because it wasn't used here. Whoever said something like that needs to sort themselves out, it's bang out of order. You can't tar everyone with the same brush just because it was said in this forum. Take it up with the idiot who said it.

Prat and miserable git are nowhere near vilification or even expletives. They're throwaway comments. Some find the implication that they're ignorant or lack intelligence far more offensive. Why do you presume that people you don't know are cowards? If Trevor Eve was sat next to me right now and started moaning about Dr Who I'd be quite fine about calling him a miserable old git and I hope he'd have the intelligence and communicative skills to take it in the gentle nature it was intended. If not, I wouldn't care less.

In general I agree with you but in this instance I don't. No offense intended.
Last edited by Facepalmer : 08-09-2010 at 15:35

Personally I think its a slight case of green eyed monster. Doctor Who is one of the few shows that has been brought back to life by public demand and is this longest running Sci-fi show in history. And due to its reinvention, is as popular as it was 30 years ago. The truth is that the BBC doesn't really have anything that has matched this show. Not really

I think there is a snobbish actor thing about TV dramas although are satisfying for them to show there range and skill may not get the populist vote. I'm sure Trevor Eve would have been the Doctor if he could predict how successfull it was to become and the doors it would open for him. But I get the feeling its a case of older actors fighting for work and audiences not terribly interested in what they may deem to be quality TV drama. Television doesn't really work like it did and all shows that are made have to be worth making. Either to be sold or marketed because the BBC don't advetise which means that even Doctor who doesn't have the budget it had in 2005, which many on this forum have commented on.

I ignore these elder statesmen of TV dramas because I know that there bittereness comes from a place where they feel they can't compete with the focus and money being directed towards new Talent, like David Tenant, Matt Smith, etc... because these are the new generations of TV actors and its there turn.

Oh so anoying...I was in the middle of replying and th power went!!!

Oh well here goes....it was a long answer so to cut it short...I agree with what your saying, but I think the problem with Trevor's argument comes in the fact that the budget he complains about is the same budget that Waking the Dead gets....as well as the fat that he is one of the highest paid stars...adn teh fact that right now he has just done a an adaption, which is hardly somthing brand new.....so his argument comes across a bit wrong...unlike Fry's....

Of course it could be that the subtext to this is that Eve is just jealous and wants the beeb to release a set of Waking the Dead action figures, produce a lightweight junior version (Waking the Snoozing), and a stage show in which Grace gets to psychoanalyse a homicidal paedophile with a 16 piece orchestral accompaniment and laser light show.

He's probably having a go at Who in order to get some publicity for his new show

I completely agree with you. When comes down to the old cliche of licence payers fee I would much rather my money go towards the production of Dr Who episodes which gives immense pleasure to a wide age group than to Walking the Dead which in it's storyline I don't think throwing money at it would have improved it's dark stories or made it appeal to more of the public.
For Dr Who to stand the test of time to be brought back just goes to show what an originally good concept it was all those years ago when it first started and I have watched from Episode 1.

The subject of needless subjection of people to vilification was brought up on this Thread, I answered, I answered you and oddly, for the Internet, I answered with a cogent response including examples...that makes it relevant to this Thread...

...you, in the nicest possible way, are talking nonsense in terms of what you would or wouldn't say to Trevor Eve were you sat next to him: you know it, we know it, so why bother writing it?

Offence is spelt with a "c"

Sorry John, I normally enjoy reading your posts, but you seem to be pointing out minor spelling mistakes to people. We all mispell things from time to time, myself and for instance Crazzy (sorry I mention her here, because we have discussed our own spelling mistakes in other threads) are prime examples. DS forum rules state that people should not be taken to task for this if the meaning is still understandable. If I was in a discussion with someone I would certainly not like it if that person pointed out that I misspelled something.

With regards to the thread, I don't like it when celebrities or anyone are vilified. I'm not so sure if this has been happening on here that much to be honest. I would say though that we don't know what he really said, sometimes things are misrepresented. However, it seems that it has always been good form to complain about Doctor who from different quarters and it is a shame that he felt, if he has, to contribute to that.

Waking the Dead...

Hark at the grammar police! Apologies if you struggled to understand.
You, in the most condescending way, are presuming far too much and are prejudiced. So far you've implied I'm ignorant, stupid, cowardly and now a liar. You really are unpleasant.
Anyone who actually knows me would tell you I say exactly what I mean.

I know another word that's spelt with a "c"

Trevor who? <indifferent shrug>


If he wants to sneer down his nose at "40 year old kids" then it's only fair that his targets get the right to reply (within reason).

Miserable old git How dare he say Dr Who is just a childrens show. It's partly thanks to the income generated by Who and it's spin offs that allow the beeb to make other programmes that can employ old miserable men like him. never liked him much in Shoestring either.;

How can you possibly say what a forum member would or would not say ? I for one, if I was sat next to Mr Eve and he started to moan about Who, would certainly make some comment to him. As a retired Police officer I have no problems telling people to their faces what i think and believe me I have done so to a leading Politician on more than one occasion.

Look at what he actually said. It is a measured criticism that you may or may not take issue with, but it is not a rant. Journalists love to dress stories up with exclamation marks and stupid journalistic words like "blast" or "slam" instead of the more neutral "criticise" and so give the impression that an interviewee is foaming at the mouth.
Calm down and don't let yourself by manipulated by journalists.

God forbid anyone in the real world expresses an opinion, maybe he didn't get the memo that only people that post in internt forums are allowed to express what they think.

Unfortunately for Trevor Eve he mentioned a Tv show where a small percentage of fans act like knee jerking babies that appear unable to look past sensationalist DS news words like Slams/Blasted.



Someone refers to Doctor Who as a children's show, adults that watch it get slightly uncomfortable.

Silly man Trevor Eve, silly man.


http://www.newsarama.com/tv/Doctor-W...at-100421.html

Steven Moffat
'The kids own it because it's definitely a kid's show, and the parents think ah, those kids think it's a children's show, but it's really for us. So that's an immensely seductive aspect to it.'


http://drwhointerviews.wordpress.com...offat-various/
Steven Moffat

Is Doctor Who a children’s show?

Calling ‘Doctor Who’ a children’s show isn’t a definition of the audience, it’s a definition of the show. In style, pace, tone, sensibility, ‘Doctor Who’ stories are children’s stories. Like Harry Potter, Star Wars, The Hobbit, Narnia, Toy Story, The Incredibles, and all gorgeous magical stuff. Does that mean it’s not for adults? Don’t be daft, adults love children’s stories – just look at that list. Some of the most famous creations in human history! People who grow out of children’s stories are people who never understood them in the first place.

Careful, terms like "silly" or "knee jerking babies" might be misinterpreted as vilification by some.
Seriously though, I think you raise some valid points. Personally I don't see Dr Who and most of the films you mention as children's shows per se (I know that's not what you're saying, I'm just voicing my opinion on the subject) but more as family shows. I consider the SJA a children's show but that doesn't stop me watching or enjoying it from time to time. Semantics? Definitely.
That's just my opinion and everyone is entitled to ignore it or offer their own. I'm very interested in other peoples opinions (that's why I'm on a forum) as I see it as a form of learning and growing as a person. In this instance I don't think Trevor Eve is (if the report is true) actually expressing an opinion as such, certainly not an informed opinion, just having a bit of a moan. He might have later thought about what he said and changed his mind. Who know's or really cares?

Totally agree. Have it on good authority from friend in the industry that he is a thoroughly unpleasant individual.
It's a shame - because as an actor, I think he is very good!

So now that David Mitchell has expressed the opinion that DW is children's TV and should be regarded as such, does he get his own thread or should the remit of this one be expanded? May also include Stephen Fry.

On the positive side I've just read a piece by Pulitzer prize winner Michael Chabon in which he voices the enthusiasm he and indeed his whole family have for the show and celebrates the fan mentality.

Why not have a thread about whether DW should/ should not solely a children's show. Personally, I think it's a family drama as is Merlin (which we all love).

I thought about that but I've started too many threads lately Go for it.
I haven't seen any of the Merlin series' but I'm going to start as I recently visited Pierrefond castle where they film the Camelot scenes. Should I bother with the early series or just start from the new one do you reckon?

Since the new run of DW with Eccelston I've never felt DW was a children's programme, teenager up would be more accurate IMHO. I was very young when the first episode with William Hartnell was broadcast and it frightened the crap out of me so I don't think it was ever aimed at children as such more always for 12 or 13 and on.

My pennies worth: Patrick Troughton was by far the best ever Doctor

oh so it was here that my spelling was challenged!!!!



Lol yes i am often a gulty person for bad spelling...


I agree with what your saying....and I too have no problem at all with the chow being called a children's programme....I have many times said so myself, and pointed out that Moff has said so himself.....

But I think intention is important here.....many people call it a children's programme because they believe that it is mostly children who watch it....but with Eve it seems to be more of a case of its a children's programme so it doesn't deserve the attention it gets ....as he says "It's fine as far as it goes, but Doctor Who is a 40-year-old children's programme"....the "but" says it all.....as children don't deserve top notch quality shows. And I for one will forever argue agaisnt that, not the idea that DW is a children's show.....because it means that the kids are getting a good quality show that has the best of actors, and makers behind it.....


I don't believe that eve should be called any names or anything....and I haven't done so myself......but his words are sounding quite bitter....his dismissal of Doctor Who as a children's show is the insult...its the idea that because it is a children's show...it doens't deserve the money or effort the BBC put into it....and I really think that is unfair...