BT Shaping

masona2 · 07-09-2010, 22:11

BT shaping -

Sorry if this is teaching anyone how to suck eggs, but this is all new to me!

There is a user on this forum who keeps on banging-on about BT network 'shaping' and how crap it is.

By the way, this user is very friendly AND approachable, so I'm not having a go at them.

But when the word 'shaping' was used, I thought WHAT?

What's that?

So I did some reasearch.....

And they were right.

This is the way I understand it, being a novice at this kind of BB speak......

Shaping is where an ISP provider cuts back your broadband line speed during 'peak time', 5pm - midnight, so that all BB users can access their internet service during 'peak time'.

This is called 'throttling back' a line speed.

I've never had any problems accessing Vision, no matter what the time of day or night. For me, it's instant accessability.

Then I found out about QOS.

Vision uses 'Quality On-demand Service'. Which means if you access your Vision box, it gets priority over all other broadband activity on your line/in your area, with NO reduction in line speed.

Then I found out if your a Sky BB user and you use Sky player, THAT gets QOS priority.

One would think, if the BBC provided a BB service, the iPlalyer would get QOS (which it does'nt, with any provider).

So with IPTV, it's not a problem. But it is a problem where your broadband is concerned.

Which now leads to my question....

Do all broadband providers do this? Or is it just BT?

boxx · 07-09-2010, 23:27

I can't speak for all of them but Virgin Media do to on all but the 50Mb package. STM (subscriber traffic management) on VM limits your connection on a daily basis if you exeed the limit for download or upload (at evenings and weekends for upload) It's a pretty punishing drop in speed (about 3/4) but the limit (on 20Mb at least) is high enough for it not to be an issue most of the time.

masona2 · 07-09-2010, 23:51

Err.....

Sorry boxx, 50 mb? 20mb?

Are you talking about download amout or speed?

And, BTW, 20mbps if it's speed, WOW!

noise747 · 07-09-2010, 23:58

Most ISps that are using BT system will shape, some worse than others. Plusnet are one of the worse.

That was one of the main reasons I left BT broadband, come to think of it that was the only reason, I just could not watch Iplayer or even you tube sometimes because they throttled my connection so much. i would not have minded so much if I went over their limits, but I did not.

Most LLu providers don't throttle, As you said BTV uses a QOS system, but if you only got 2Megabits, you get very little to use internet wise while BTV is being used. you can just about do basic browsing.

masona2 · 08-09-2010, 00:12

Oh Adrian,

Your doing it again.

IF you can only get this, IF you can only get that.

I understand you think BT is crap and so moved to a provider which now your more than happy with. Great!

But I wanted an answer to my original question.

Not what anyone thought about BT. -

My question -

'Do all service providers do this?'

Thanks for the input in advance!

boxx · 08-09-2010, 00:23

50Mb and 20Mb are the 'per second' download speeds. XL and XXL broadband. Sometime in the next 12 months (or so

) )VM will be releasing XXXL 100Mbps broadband. As it stands there's no STM on 50Mb but there have been mumbles of its' inclusion since launch.
If you're consideering an ISP then I can wholeheartedly recommend VM. I've had 20Mb since release without issue. It really is rock solid (for me) The STM is easy to avoid and even if you hit it twice in 24 hours the amount you can download regardless is insane. I have no idea about any other ISP though, mainly because I don't need to know

noise747 · 08-09-2010, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by masona2

Oh Adrian,

Your doing it again.

IF you can only get this, IF you can only get that.

I understand you think BT is crap and so moved to a provider which now your more than happy with. Great!

But I wanted an answer to my original question.

Not what anyone thought about BT. -

My question -

'Do all service providers do this?'

Thanks for the input in advance!

i did say that most providers based on the BT service will shape, be it Bt, plusnet, the post office or any other Isp that uses Bt system. some have limits as well even if they say unlimited, they normally shape even more when you reach their data limits.

Eclipse, who I was on a few years back shaped like hell , worse than BT, No ISp can offer a unshaped unrestricted service on the BT system unless they charge a fortune.

unbundled services normally don't shape or restrict and some unlimited are true unlimited, like the one I am on.

i never said Bt are crap, it is just that there are better ones around. If you can get onto a LLU service, apart from Talk Talk, then do it. unless you really want to use BT Vision, then you are stuck.

masona2 · 08-09-2010, 01:11

Hi,

Do all providers limit your BB speeds if in 'peak time'?.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, and thanks for the input boxx in regard to VM.
I particulary liked the term, this works 'for me'.

Jittlov · 08-09-2010, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by masona2

Hi,

Do all providers limit your BB speeds if in 'peak time'?.

Thanks in advance.

No, not all, though on a lot of networks you will see some speed degradation at peak time simply because there are a lot of people using the network at the same time, though this will also vary depending on the provider.

johnson293 · 08-09-2010, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by masona2

Hi,

Do all providers limit your BB speeds if in 'peak time'?.

Thanks in advance.

Sky Connect Broadband is subject to a 'Network Management Policy', but Sky Everyday and Unlimited Broadband is not.

http://www.sky.com/shop/terms-condit...sage-policies/

Quote:

SKY BROADBAND CONNECT NETWORK MANAGEMENT POLICY

Sky Broadband Connect is subject to a Network Management Policy in addition to the monthly Usage Cap.

We continuously monitor and efficiently manage the performance of Sky Broadband Connect to ensure that we provide a sustainable quality broadband service to our customers. When our network is busy we give priority to applications such as browsing, email, streaming, instant messaging, gaming and VOIP.

This means that certain applications which use up a lot of bandwidth (for example peer-to-peer file-sharing, large file downloads and newsgroups), which have a negative effect on other customers, may run slower at peak times. Our network is busiest between 4pm and 11pm on weekdays and all day at the weekend, but can be busy at other times too, depending on regional, national and international demand.

In addition, we monitor customers who use the most bandwidth and whose usage is having a negative effect on other customers. Customers who breach the Usage Cap or who regularly download large amounts at peak times will have restrictions placed on their accounts to reduce their download speeds at peak times. Only a small number of customers will be affected by this, typically fewer than 5%. We remove these restrictions when our network is not busy.

Please note that this Fair Usage Network Management Policy does not apply to Sky Broadband Everyday Lite or Sky Broadband Unlimited.

boxx · 08-09-2010, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by masona2

Oh, and thanks for the input boxx in regard to VM.
I particulary liked the term, this works 'for me'.

No worries.

My setup is ideal for the connection. Just one PC wired straight to modem.

paulpocket · 08-09-2010, 11:13

My experience with BT BB.

On the 8mb connection and my speed is around 3.5mb during the day and around 2.8mb at night.

With BTVision ive never had a problem viewing OD. I think in 2 years ive notice stuttering twice and that only lasted 5 seconds both times.

On a PC/xbox, During the day i can watch and do almost anything online with no problems.
At night everything take alot longer. Things like youtube take about twice as long to load.

But sky player is the main problem for me. During the day it worked perfectly. At night i couldn't even watch it on the lowest quality setting. So that is the main reason i've left BT BB for sky BB.

Can't say if this will solve my problems yet as i'm changing over tomorrow.

Finger crossed.

jim_uk · 08-09-2010, 12:09

Virgin aren't too bad on the 20Mb service, if you do get capped you still get 5Mb and it's only for 5 hours. Unlike BT they're upfront about it too....

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4...menttable0.jpg

07-09-2010, 22:11	#1
masona2 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 780	BT Shaping BT shaping - Sorry if this is teaching anyone how to suck eggs, but this is all new to me! There is a user on this forum who keeps on banging-on about BT network 'shaping' and how crap it is. By the way, this user is very friendly AND approachable, so I'm not having a go at them. But when the word 'shaping' was used, I thought WHAT? What's that? So I did some reasearch..... And they were right. This is the way I understand it, being a novice at this kind of BB speak...... Shaping is where an ISP provider cuts back your broadband line speed during 'peak time', 5pm - midnight, so that all BB users can access their internet service during 'peak time'. This is called 'throttling back' a line speed. I've never had any problems accessing Vision, no matter what the time of day or night. For me, it's instant accessability. Then I found out about QOS. Vision uses 'Quality On-demand Service'. Which means if you access your Vision box, it gets priority over all other broadband activity on your line/in your area, with NO reduction in line speed. Then I found out if your a Sky BB user and you use Sky player, THAT gets QOS priority. One would think, if the BBC provided a BB service, the iPlalyer would get QOS (which it does'nt, with any provider). So with IPTV, it's not a problem. But it is a problem where your broadband is concerned. Which now leads to my question.... Do all broadband providers do this? Or is it just BT?

08-09-2010, 00:23	#6
boxx Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Preston Posts: 4,755	50Mb and 20Mb are the 'per second' download speeds. XL and XXL broadband. Sometime in the next 12 months (or so) )VM will be releasing XXXL 100Mbps broadband. As it stands there's no STM on 50Mb but there have been mumbles of its' inclusion since launch. If you're consideering an ISP then I can wholeheartedly recommend VM. I've had 20Mb since release without issue. It really is rock solid (for me) The STM is easy to avoid and even if you hit it twice in 24 hours the amount you can download regardless is insane. I have no idea about any other ISP though, mainly because I don't need to know

07-09-2010, 23:27	#2
boxx Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Preston Posts: 4,755	I can't speak for all of them but Virgin Media do to on all but the 50Mb package. STM (subscriber traffic management) on VM limits your connection on a daily basis if you exeed the limit for download or upload (at evenings and weekends for upload) It's a pretty punishing drop in speed (about 3/4) but the limit (on 20Mb at least) is high enough for it not to be an issue most of the time.

07-09-2010, 23:51	#3
masona2 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 780	Err..... Sorry boxx, 50 mb? 20mb? Are you talking about download amout or speed? And, BTW, 20mbps if it's speed, WOW!

07-09-2010, 23:58	#4
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Most ISps that are using BT system will shape, some worse than others. Plusnet are one of the worse. That was one of the main reasons I left BT broadband, come to think of it that was the only reason, I just could not watch Iplayer or even you tube sometimes because they throttled my connection so much. i would not have minded so much if I went over their limits, but I did not. Most LLu providers don't throttle, As you said BTV uses a QOS system, but if you only got 2Megabits, you get very little to use internet wise while BTV is being used. you can just about do basic browsing.

08-09-2010, 00:12	#5
masona2 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 780	Oh Adrian, Your doing it again. IF you can only get this, IF you can only get that. I understand you think BT is crap and so moved to a provider which now your more than happy with. Great! But I wanted an answer to my original question. Not what anyone thought about BT. - My question - 'Do all service providers do this?' Thanks for the input in advance!

08-09-2010, 00:39	#7
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by masona2 Oh Adrian, Your doing it again. IF you can only get this, IF you can only get that. I understand you think BT is crap and so moved to a provider which now your more than happy with. Great! But I wanted an answer to my original question. Not what anyone thought about BT. - My question - 'Do all service providers do this?' Thanks for the input in advance! i did say that most providers based on the BT service will shape, be it Bt, plusnet, the post office or any other Isp that uses Bt system. some have limits as well even if they say unlimited, they normally shape even more when you reach their data limits. Eclipse, who I was on a few years back shaped like hell , worse than BT, No ISp can offer a unshaped unrestricted service on the BT system unless they charge a fortune. unbundled services normally don't shape or restrict and some unlimited are true unlimited, like the one I am on. i never said Bt are crap, it is just that there are better ones around. If you can get onto a LLU service, apart from Talk Talk, then do it. unless you really want to use BT Vision, then you are stuck.

08-09-2010, 01:11	#8
masona2 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 780	Hi, Do all providers limit your BB speeds if in 'peak time'?. Thanks in advance. Oh, and thanks for the input boxx in regard to VM. I particulary liked the term, this works 'for me'.

08-09-2010, 01:31	#9
Jittlov Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,493	Quote: Originally Posted by masona2 Hi, Do all providers limit your BB speeds if in 'peak time'?. Thanks in advance. No, not all, though on a lot of networks you will see some speed degradation at peak time simply because there are a lot of people using the network at the same time, though this will also vary depending on the provider.

08-09-2010, 08:10	#10
johnson293 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 1,243	Quote: Originally Posted by masona2 Hi, Do all providers limit your BB speeds if in 'peak time'?. Thanks in advance. Sky Connect Broadband is subject to a 'Network Management Policy', but Sky Everyday and Unlimited Broadband is not. http://www.sky.com/shop/terms-condit...sage-policies/ Quote: SKY BROADBAND CONNECT NETWORK MANAGEMENT POLICY Sky Broadband Connect is subject to a Network Management Policy in addition to the monthly Usage Cap. We continuously monitor and efficiently manage the performance of Sky Broadband Connect to ensure that we provide a sustainable quality broadband service to our customers. When our network is busy we give priority to applications such as browsing, email, streaming, instant messaging, gaming and VOIP. This means that certain applications which use up a lot of bandwidth (for example peer-to-peer file-sharing, large file downloads and newsgroups), which have a negative effect on other customers, may run slower at peak times. Our network is busiest between 4pm and 11pm on weekdays and all day at the weekend, but can be busy at other times too, depending on regional, national and international demand. In addition, we monitor customers who use the most bandwidth and whose usage is having a negative effect on other customers. Customers who breach the Usage Cap or who regularly download large amounts at peak times will have restrictions placed on their accounts to reduce their download speeds at peak times. Only a small number of customers will be affected by this, typically fewer than 5%. We remove these restrictions when our network is not busy. Please note that this Fair Usage Network Management Policy does not apply to Sky Broadband Everyday Lite or Sky Broadband Unlimited.

08-09-2010, 10:32	#11
boxx Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Preston Posts: 4,755	Quote: Originally Posted by masona2 Oh, and thanks for the input boxx in regard to VM. I particulary liked the term, this works 'for me'. No worries. My setup is ideal for the connection. Just one PC wired straight to modem.

08-09-2010, 11:13	#12
paulpocket Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glasgow Posts: 135	My experience with BT BB. On the 8mb connection and my speed is around 3.5mb during the day and around 2.8mb at night. With BTVision ive never had a problem viewing OD. I think in 2 years ive notice stuttering twice and that only lasted 5 seconds both times. On a PC/xbox, During the day i can watch and do almost anything online with no problems. At night everything take alot longer. Things like youtube take about twice as long to load. But sky player is the main problem for me. During the day it worked perfectly. At night i couldn't even watch it on the lowest quality setting. So that is the main reason i've left BT BB for sky BB. Can't say if this will solve my problems yet as i'm changing over tomorrow. Finger crossed.

08-09-2010, 12:09	#13
jim_uk Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Watford Posts: 12,961	Virgin aren't too bad on the 20Mb service, if you do get capped you still get 5Mb and it's only for 5 hours. Unlike BT they're upfront about it too.... http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4...menttable0.jpg

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