Originally Posted by spiney2:
“Isn't "Gay Agenda" the name of Peter Mandleson's luxury power boat ?”
“Isn't "Gay Agenda" the name of Peter Mandleson's luxury power boat ?”
It would be a cruiser, surely.
What is the 'Gay Agenda' ?
3 of 4
Originally Posted by neel:
“It would be a cruiser, surely.
”
“It would be a cruiser, surely.
”
So rare I laugh out loud on DS, but this got me. Kudos!
To answer the original question: I don't think there was a "gay agenda". There are certainly a fair number of gay characters in 21st century DW, just as there are a fair number of BME characters and strong women characters. That's the way TV goes these days. I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the story. There are a few gay jokes, a few gay references ... but you get that in quite a few TV series these days.
It's not so much a "gay agenda" as "DW being part of the landscape of current TV". DW is one of the few shows that has moved beyond tonkenism in its representation of gay characters. So many other dramas deal with gay characters coming out, because it's easy to get drama from that. It's long since become a cliche. DW does not do that, and represents many different aspects of gay men/women's lives.
"Agenda" suggests "tokenism", and DW does not do that. Sky Sylvestry is a great example of a lonely gay woman. DW touches on human issues nowadays, and the gay experience is just part of that.
It's not so much a "gay agenda" as "DW being part of the landscape of current TV". DW is one of the few shows that has moved beyond tonkenism in its representation of gay characters. So many other dramas deal with gay characters coming out, because it's easy to get drama from that. It's long since become a cliche. DW does not do that, and represents many different aspects of gay men/women's lives.
"Agenda" suggests "tokenism", and DW does not do that. Sky Sylvestry is a great example of a lonely gay woman. DW touches on human issues nowadays, and the gay experience is just part of that.
Originally Posted by chuffnobbler:
“To answer the original question: I don't think there was a "gay agenda". There are certainly a fair number of gay characters in 21st century DW, just as there are a fair number of BME characters and strong women characters. That's the way TV goes these days. I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the story. There are a few gay jokes, a few gay references ... but you get that in quite a few TV series these days.
It's not so much a "gay agenda" as "DW being part of the landscape of current TV". DW is one of the few shows that has moved beyond tonkenism in its representation of gay characters. So many other dramas deal with gay characters coming out, because it's easy to get drama from that. It's long since become a cliche. DW does not do that, and represents many different aspects of gay men/women's lives.
"Agenda" suggests "tokenism", and DW does not do that. Sky Sylvestry is a great example of a lonely gay woman. DW touches on human issues nowadays, and the gay experience is just part of that.”
“To answer the original question: I don't think there was a "gay agenda". There are certainly a fair number of gay characters in 21st century DW, just as there are a fair number of BME characters and strong women characters. That's the way TV goes these days. I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the story. There are a few gay jokes, a few gay references ... but you get that in quite a few TV series these days.
It's not so much a "gay agenda" as "DW being part of the landscape of current TV". DW is one of the few shows that has moved beyond tonkenism in its representation of gay characters. So many other dramas deal with gay characters coming out, because it's easy to get drama from that. It's long since become a cliche. DW does not do that, and represents many different aspects of gay men/women's lives.
"Agenda" suggests "tokenism", and DW does not do that. Sky Sylvestry is a great example of a lonely gay woman. DW touches on human issues nowadays, and the gay experience is just part of that.”
I think this is a nice summary
.
Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“It's a reference to the story of Don Quixote. He jousted with a windmill because he was under the delusion that it was a dragon. Nik Kershaw wrote a song about it in the eighties.
If there was anyone out there whose knowledge of basic history doesn't extend to good Queen Bess being the virgin queen, I'd say their education was sadly lacking.”
“It's a reference to the story of Don Quixote. He jousted with a windmill because he was under the delusion that it was a dragon. Nik Kershaw wrote a song about it in the eighties.
If there was anyone out there whose knowledge of basic history doesn't extend to good Queen Bess being the virgin queen, I'd say their education was sadly lacking.”
Oh its okay for you to jump on how educated someone is
What i meant was that not everyone refers to Queen Elizabeth the first as Queen Bess, certainly not young children.....in most of their minds the Doctor would have just been talking about some Queen called Bess....and the Doctor just siad Nickname...now if you don't know who Queen Bess is...you won't know what Nickname he is talking about.....but thanks to Moff we all know for definite it was the Virgin Queen....no getting away from it now...in EOt it could have easily been the Doctor winding up ood Sigma with his lame jokes, as well as the pimping up the Tardis....but Moff went further to confirm that indeed the Doctor did dingle dangle!!!
Originally Posted by Eaglestriker:
“Exactly! RTD made it subtle, Moffat went on and confirmed it! Whoever was perturbed by the insinuation that The Doc has a wedding tackle and still uses it would probably have ran outside and bellowed "DEAR POINTS OF VIEW!!!!".”
“Exactly! RTD made it subtle, Moffat went on and confirmed it! Whoever was perturbed by the insinuation that The Doc has a wedding tackle and still uses it would probably have ran outside and bellowed "DEAR POINTS OF VIEW!!!!".”
lol exactly...
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“'Fair and balanced'? No, I think Davies' view of society was decidedly unbalanced, given the numbers he presented. And I don't personally give a toss whether it presented a positive view of minority groups or not-it was tedious, annoying and OTT. And not what I watch Doctor Who for. If I wanted to be preached at by delusional idealists with skewed priorities I'd watch Songs of Praise.”
“'Fair and balanced'? No, I think Davies' view of society was decidedly unbalanced, given the numbers he presented. And I don't personally give a toss whether it presented a positive view of minority groups or not-it was tedious, annoying and OTT. And not what I watch Doctor Who for. If I wanted to be preached at by delusional idealists with skewed priorities I'd watch Songs of Praise.”
what one character over in a million other hetrosexuals??? In Rose, what character was gay? In End of The world...what character was gay?...it was in Aliens of London where we saw a character...whell the Slitheen comment on the fact that the body he had taken over happen to be gay...and oh...closet MP's....now that never happens does it???
so four stories in...we get our first minor gay character......then after that, we don't see a a gay character untill Moff's episode...who gives us three...well two and an omnisexual......the after that you only get the flirting between males due to Cpt Jack....but he then is eqaully flirting with the feamles, and robots.....so again one character....the next gay character then sort of appears in Shakespear code...and that is only an suggestion that Shakespeare batted for both sides....considering that this isn't something invented by RTD...him making a joke about it hardly counts. We get the lesbians in Gridlock, (but then we also get a bloody cat with a human).....and then when Jack makes an appearance again.....and he flirts with everyone....doesn't mean the guy he was flirting with was gay....and then the next two gay characters are in The Unicorn and the Wasp, and then Sky in Midnight....and again if you want to include Jack and Ianto (but its Gwen who notices the Doctor looks good, not Ianto)...and then one very minor character who we see for a second in Waters of Mars...and then the guy with Minnie....
right how is any of that too many....to count that is 10....not including Shkespeare....and counting Jack as one, and not counting Ianto, because his appearance is because of TW...you can't bang on about him being there in DW because of some agenda!!!! So out all those people who appeared in what over 50 stories....Ten is too much???? and unbalanced??? Boy you seriuosly need to get your numbers in order
Originally Posted by codename_47:
“The agenda refers to a collection of closed minded people who were over-focusing on every gay reference because they weren't ok with the ways of the modern world, where a grown adult is free to do whatever they wants with whoever they want and who wish it was 1963 again, when they weren't.
The whole thing said so much more about the people who were over-sensitive about the "agenda" than anything about the production staff of Doctor Who or even the series itself, to be honest.
I think the only thing RTD has ever said on the topic is that, in the future, people will care less and less what you get up to and who you get up to it with. Not that there'll be more gay people vs straight people, just that attitudes will become more tolerant.
I hope for humanities sake, he's right.
Sometimes you wander round places like here and shake your head in despair, however
”
“The agenda refers to a collection of closed minded people who were over-focusing on every gay reference because they weren't ok with the ways of the modern world, where a grown adult is free to do whatever they wants with whoever they want and who wish it was 1963 again, when they weren't.
The whole thing said so much more about the people who were over-sensitive about the "agenda" than anything about the production staff of Doctor Who or even the series itself, to be honest.
I think the only thing RTD has ever said on the topic is that, in the future, people will care less and less what you get up to and who you get up to it with. Not that there'll be more gay people vs straight people, just that attitudes will become more tolerant.
I hope for humanities sake, he's right.
Sometimes you wander round places like here and shake your head in despair, however
”
Places like this depress me too...that we are in the 21st centaury...and still act like idiots!!!
Originally Posted by chuffnobbler:
“To answer the original question: I don't think there was a "gay agenda". There are certainly a fair number of gay characters in 21st century DW, just as there are a fair number of BME characters and strong women characters. That's the way TV goes these days. I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the story. There are a few gay jokes, a few gay references ... but you get that in quite a few TV series these days.
It's not so much a "gay agenda" as "DW being part of the landscape of current TV". DW is one of the few shows that has moved beyond tonkenism in its representation of gay characters. So many other dramas deal with gay characters coming out, because it's easy to get drama from that. It's long since become a cliche. DW does not do that, and represents many different aspects of gay men/women's lives.
"Agenda" suggests "tokenism", and DW does not do that. Sky Sylvestry is a great example of a lonely gay woman. DW touches on human issues nowadays, and the gay experience is just part of that.”
“To answer the original question: I don't think there was a "gay agenda". There are certainly a fair number of gay characters in 21st century DW, just as there are a fair number of BME characters and strong women characters. That's the way TV goes these days. I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the story. There are a few gay jokes, a few gay references ... but you get that in quite a few TV series these days.
It's not so much a "gay agenda" as "DW being part of the landscape of current TV". DW is one of the few shows that has moved beyond tonkenism in its representation of gay characters. So many other dramas deal with gay characters coming out, because it's easy to get drama from that. It's long since become a cliche. DW does not do that, and represents many different aspects of gay men/women's lives.
"Agenda" suggests "tokenism", and DW does not do that. Sky Sylvestry is a great example of a lonely gay woman. DW touches on human issues nowadays, and the gay experience is just part of that.”
Well said...and exactly my feelings...that is why i am not a fan of soaps....because sexaulity is always about making a big issue....here its just that someone happens to be gay...
Originally Posted by tingramretro;43906167[B:
“]Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years [/b](a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
“]Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years [/b](a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
That just shows that you had a problem with it that it botherd you..while most of us didn't bat an eye lid.....if you counted the amount of hetrosexaul references in RTD's DW....and played the Drinking game....you'd be in an AA group soon enough...while the gay references...or characters are not going to be enough to even get you drunk!!!
If you notice it it alot...its because you make a mountain out of a moll hill.....not the the other way round....
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
“Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
Really, perhaps you could go through every RTD episode and list all the gay characters you seem to think are in them....
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
“Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
What absolute b**locks - its probably you & your mates that had a problem with it, and were looking out for it rather than enjoying the show.
And as for Torchwood, it doesn't imply that 50% of the population of Cardiff are bisexual - it suggests that people who work in an environment where aliens and rifts are commonplace, are probably a little bit more open minded that your standard homophobic councillor.
Captain Jack is omnisexual - and will sleep with man, woman or alien. Ianto had feelings for Jack & his girlfriend, and the other encounters were down to alien/drug affectation.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
“Possibly, but when it reaches the stage where people are sitting there actually waiting to see who will be the obligatory gasy character this week, as was happening over the last few years (a couple of mates of mine effectively made a game of it while watching) then I'd say that is an example of an agenda being pushed, not just Doctor Who reflecting life, and it just became silly and irritating. Admittedly Torchwood was even worse, in that it somewhat unbelievably seemed to depict about 50% of the population of Cardiff as bisexual, but still-moderation is a good thing, in anything. RTD was not good on moderation at the best of times, on any subject.”
Really - they must lead quite dull lives given that we're only really talking about Captain Jack, the lesbian couple in Gridlock, the footman & son in TUATW & Sky plus a few other fleeting references over the years.
But then you've established yourself as the biggest hypocrite on this board given that you used to say you mainly objected to any romance/sexuality in the show and just wanted spaceships yet then turned around and defended Amy trying to have sex with the Doctor despite it being the most blatantly sexual thing in the modern show.
Originally Posted by gslam2:
“Really - they must lead quite dull lives given that we're only really talking about Captain Jack, the lesbian couple in Gridlock, the footman & son in TUATW & Sky plus a few other fleeting references over the years.
But then you've established yourself as the biggest hypocrite on this board given that you used to say you mainly objected to any romance/sexuality in the show and just wanted spaceships yet then turned around and defended Amy trying to have sex with the Doctor despite it being the most blatantly sexual thing in the modern show.”
“Really - they must lead quite dull lives given that we're only really talking about Captain Jack, the lesbian couple in Gridlock, the footman & son in TUATW & Sky plus a few other fleeting references over the years.
But then you've established yourself as the biggest hypocrite on this board given that you used to say you mainly objected to any romance/sexuality in the show and just wanted spaceships yet then turned around and defended Amy trying to have sex with the Doctor despite it being the most blatantly sexual thing in the modern show.”
Oh yeah...what was it...oh it somehow works now doesn't it...and it was funny.....that is what i remember being said at that time....
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“Oh yeah...what was it...oh it somehow works now doesn't it...and it was funny.....that is what i remember being said at that time....”
“Oh yeah...what was it...oh it somehow works now doesn't it...and it was funny.....that is what i remember being said at that time....”
Well, that scene was funny.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Well, that scene was funny.”
“Well, that scene was funny.”
But its still went against all that you kept going on about before the series started.......one view which you still hold when criticising RTD's era....but one that you throw out of the window for Moff....
Conisistancy is all that is required
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“.....
a million other hetrosexuals??? In Rose, what character was gay? In End of The world...what character was gay?...it was in Aliens of London where we saw a character...whell the Slitheen comment on the fact that the body he had taken over happen to be gay...and oh...closet MP's....now that never happens does it??? so four stories in...we get our first minor gay character......then after that, we don't see a a gay character untill Moff's episode...who gives us three...well two and an omnisexual......the after that you only get the flirting between males due to Cpt Jack....but he then is eqaully flirting with the feamles, and robots.....so again one character....
the next gay character then sort of appears in Shakespear code...and that is only an suggestion that Shakespeare batted for both sides....considering that this isn't something invented by RTD...him making a joke about it hardly counts. We get the lesbians in Gridlock, (but then we also get a bloody cat with a human).....and then when Jack makes an appearance again.....and he flirts with everyone....doesn't mean the guy he was flirting with was gay....and then the next two gay characters are in The Unicorn and the Wasp, and then Sky in Midnight....and again if you want to include Jack and Ianto (but its Gwen who notices the Doctor looks good, not Ianto)...and then one very minor character who we see for a second in Waters of Mars...and then the guy with Minnie....
right how is any of that too many....to count that is 10....not including Shkespeare....and counting Jack as one, and not counting Ianto, because his appearance is because of TW...you can't bang on about him being there in DW because of some agenda!!!! So out all those people who appeared in what over 50 stories....Ten is too much???? and unbalanced??? Boy you seriuosly need to get your numbers in order”
“.....
a million other hetrosexuals??? In Rose, what character was gay? In End of The world...what character was gay?...it was in Aliens of London where we saw a character...whell the Slitheen comment on the fact that the body he had taken over happen to be gay...and oh...closet MP's....now that never happens does it???
so four stories in...we get our first minor gay character......then after that, we don't see a a gay character untill Moff's episode...who gives us three...well two and an omnisexual......the after that you only get the flirting between males due to Cpt Jack....but he then is eqaully flirting with the feamles, and robots.....so again one character....the next gay character then sort of appears in Shakespear code...and that is only an suggestion that Shakespeare batted for both sides....considering that this isn't something invented by RTD...him making a joke about it hardly counts. We get the lesbians in Gridlock, (but then we also get a bloody cat with a human).....and then when Jack makes an appearance again.....and he flirts with everyone....doesn't mean the guy he was flirting with was gay....and then the next two gay characters are in The Unicorn and the Wasp, and then Sky in Midnight....and again if you want to include Jack and Ianto (but its Gwen who notices the Doctor looks good, not Ianto)...and then one very minor character who we see for a second in Waters of Mars...and then the guy with Minnie....
right how is any of that too many....to count that is 10....not including Shkespeare....and counting Jack as one, and not counting Ianto, because his appearance is because of TW...you can't bang on about him being there in DW because of some agenda!!!! So out all those people who appeared in what over 50 stories....Ten is too much???? and unbalanced??? Boy you seriuosly need to get your numbers in order
”
I agree with every single word you say, and I would like to add something. I never realised that the MP in World War 3 was supposed to be gay, I didn't really realise that there was a gay couple in Gridlock and I only knew about Sky Sylvestri because I read it on here. When I watch Who, I'm not sitting there and counting some kind of references to whatever, I'm enjoying the show too much. In psychology there is an effect known as the Cocktail Party Effect, if you are in a room full of people and you hear your name, you will hear it because you focus your attention on it. I think the same is happening here. Those of us who are not bothered by it (in my case I didn't know RTD is gay and I don't care anyway) don't hear those references, whereas those uncomfortable with the depiction of gay characters focus their attention on negligible references.
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“Places like this depress me too...that we are in the 21st centaury...and still act like idiots!!!
..”
“Places like this depress me too...that we are in the 21st centaury...and still act like idiots!!!
..”
It does me as well. The other day I read part of Matthew Waterhouse's article in DWM about how it was forbidden for people under 21 to engage in same sexual relationships. I commented to my other half how shocking it is that this was only 20 - 30 years ago, and how much we progressed since then. I somehow wonder though.
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“Well said...and exactly my feelings...that is why i am not a fan of soaps....because sexaulity is always about making a big issue....here its just that someone happens to be gay...
..”
“Well said...and exactly my feelings...that is why i am not a fan of soaps....because sexaulity is always about making a big issue....here its just that someone happens to be gay...
..”
I agree but then I'm not a fan of soaps.
Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“I agree with every single word you say, and I would like to add something. I never realised that the MP in World War 3 was supposed to be gay, I didn't really realise that there was a gay couple in Gridlock and I only knew about Sky Sylvestri because I read it on here. When I watch Who, I'm not sitting there and counting some kind of references to whatever, I'm enjoying the show too much. In psychology there is an effect known as the Cocktail Party Effect, if you are in a room full of people and you hear your name, you will hear it because you focus your attention on it. I think the same is happening here. Those of us who are not bothered by it (in my case I didn't know RTD is gay and I don't care anyway) don't hear those references, whereas those uncomfortable with the depiction of gay characters focus their attention on negligible references.
It does me as well. The other day I read part of Matthew Waterhouse's article in DWM about how it was forbidden for people under 21 to engage in same sexual relationships. I commented to my other half how shocking it is that this was only 20 - 30 years ago, and how much we progressed since then. I somehow wonder though.
I agree but then I'm not a fan of soaps.”
“I agree with every single word you say, and I would like to add something. I never realised that the MP in World War 3 was supposed to be gay, I didn't really realise that there was a gay couple in Gridlock and I only knew about Sky Sylvestri because I read it on here. When I watch Who, I'm not sitting there and counting some kind of references to whatever, I'm enjoying the show too much. In psychology there is an effect known as the Cocktail Party Effect, if you are in a room full of people and you hear your name, you will hear it because you focus your attention on it. I think the same is happening here. Those of us who are not bothered by it (in my case I didn't know RTD is gay and I don't care anyway) don't hear those references, whereas those uncomfortable with the depiction of gay characters focus their attention on negligible references.
It does me as well. The other day I read part of Matthew Waterhouse's article in DWM about how it was forbidden for people under 21 to engage in same sexual relationships. I commented to my other half how shocking it is that this was only 20 - 30 years ago, and how much we progressed since then. I somehow wonder though.
I agree but then I'm not a fan of soaps.”
i tend to only notice if the sexuality is referenced in a joke.....but then its no different to noticing that someone is straight...like Adam for example when he starts flirting with Rose......the one I never noticed was Sky's...untill I came here to read the reviews by everone...and a few people went of an "OMG GAY AGENDA!!!!!"....
But its never an issue and I love that...its just a small joke, like any sexaul Joke....most of them are by Jack....which would be weird if RTD didn't write those jokes for him, when Moff had done plenty only in the first story that he appeared in.....yet still the jokes that RTD wrote for him were much more subtle than the ones Moof wrote....i think the issue is only that because RTD is gay....so any gay reference he writes is because he has some agenda....which is pathetic...surely he is just writing gay references just like any other writer writes hetrosexaul references....the way some people complain is as if we got a scene between teh Doctor and jack just like we got a scene between Amy and the Doctor....or that Sky was sitting there sh*gging a woman...rather than just happen to mention the word She....it could have been he....but it was a she...so bloody what!!!!! there was a married hetrosexaul couple on board...surely that is enough to even things out for those with some strange problem with all things gay!!!
I also read that DWM interview.....I guess it just shows that even though homophobia isn't at a direct level....there is plenty of indirect...which is more scary...at least with the other you knew where a person stood with their views....
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“i tend to only notice if the sexuality is referenced in a joke.....but then its no different to noticing that someone is straight...like Adam for example when he starts flirting with Rose......the one I never noticed was Sky's...untill I came here to read the reviews by everone...and a few people went of an "OMG GAY AGENDA!!!!!".... But its never an issue and I love that...its just a small joke, like any sexaul Joke....most of them are by Jack....which would be weird if RTD didn't write those jokes for him, when Moff had done plenty only in the first story that he appeared in.....yet still the jokes that RTD wrote for him were much more subtle than the ones Moof wrote....
i think the issue is only that because RTD is gay....so any gay reference he writes is because he has some agenda....which is pathetic...surely he is just writing gay references just like any other writer writes hetrosexaul references....the way some people complain is as if we got a scene between teh Doctor and jack just like we got a scene between Amy and the Doctor....or that Sky was sitting there sh*gging a woman...rather than just happen to mention the word She....it could have been he....but it was a she...so bloody what!!!!! there was a married hetrosexaul couple on board...surely that is enough to even things out for those with some strange problem with all things gay!!!
I also read that DWM interview.....I guess it just shows that even though homophobia isn't at a direct level....there is plenty of indirect...which is more scary...at least with the other you knew where a person stood with their views....”
“i tend to only notice if the sexuality is referenced in a joke.....but then its no different to noticing that someone is straight...like Adam for example when he starts flirting with Rose......the one I never noticed was Sky's...untill I came here to read the reviews by everone...and a few people went of an "OMG GAY AGENDA!!!!!"....
But its never an issue and I love that...its just a small joke, like any sexaul Joke....most of them are by Jack....which would be weird if RTD didn't write those jokes for him, when Moff had done plenty only in the first story that he appeared in.....yet still the jokes that RTD wrote for him were much more subtle than the ones Moof wrote....i think the issue is only that because RTD is gay....so any gay reference he writes is because he has some agenda....which is pathetic...surely he is just writing gay references just like any other writer writes hetrosexaul references....the way some people complain is as if we got a scene between teh Doctor and jack just like we got a scene between Amy and the Doctor....or that Sky was sitting there sh*gging a woman...rather than just happen to mention the word She....it could have been he....but it was a she...so bloody what!!!!! there was a married hetrosexaul couple on board...surely that is enough to even things out for those with some strange problem with all things gay!!!
I also read that DWM interview.....I guess it just shows that even though homophobia isn't at a direct level....there is plenty of indirect...which is more scary...at least with the other you knew where a person stood with their views....”
..I should add to my other post that I don't think that everyone noticing the references is uncomfortable with them
, some people are just more observant than me. In my mind though, as you said above, some references are so subtle that well they go over my head (e.g., Sky's use of the word "she") and I honestly don't remember the MP making any comment about the "gayness" of the body he took over.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Well, that scene was funny.”
“Well, that scene was funny.”
Irrespective of it's humour, it was the most overtly sexual scene in the history of Dr Who.
If it had been written by RTD the usual suspects on here would have been up in arms about it.
Hypocrisy at it's finest methinks......
Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“..I should add to my other post that I don't think that everyone noticing the references is uncomfortable with them, some people are just more observant than me. In my mind though, as you said above, some references are so subtle that well they go over my head (e.g., Sky's use of the word "she") and I honestly don't remember the MP making any comment about the "gayness" of the body he took over.”
“..I should add to my other post that I don't think that everyone noticing the references is uncomfortable with them
, some people are just more observant than me. In my mind though, as you said above, some references are so subtle that well they go over my head (e.g., Sky's use of the word "she") and I honestly don't remember the MP making any comment about the "gayness" of the body he took over.”
I only noticed the MP one, because the joke i found funny...he said that he had been busy with the actual MP's wife, mistress and another bloke......so it was very subtle...and one that would go over you head....I don't know if i picked it up the first time round though, but since then i have always listend out for it...as I quite like that joke...
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“I only noticed the MP one, because the joke i found funny...he said that he had been busy with the actual MP's wife, mistress and another bloke......so it was very subtle...and one that would go over you head....I don't know if i picked it up the first time round though, but since then i have always listend out for it...as I quite like that joke...”
“I only noticed the MP one, because the joke i found funny...he said that he had been busy with the actual MP's wife, mistress and another bloke......so it was very subtle...and one that would go over you head....I don't know if i picked it up the first time round though, but since then i have always listend out for it...as I quite like that joke...”
Ah, figures
. I was getting worried that I'm not keeping up with everything happening in Doctor Who
Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“Ah, figures. I was getting worried that I'm not keeping up with everything happening in Doctor Who”
“Ah, figures
. I was getting worried that I'm not keeping up with everything happening in Doctor Who”
Nah i think the preception filter was broken for me on that episode
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Well, I wasn't the one who decided to start doing that.”
“Well, I wasn't the one who decided to start doing that.”
Misinterpreted. I was just pointing out that you disliked RTD because - occasionally - he included a gay character in his stories, when it absolutely had no bearing on the plot whatsoever. You also objected to him 'sexualising' the show, when Doctor Who should always be about spaceships and sci-fi stuff.
Steven Moffat - a brilliant writer and show-runner so far, IMO - not only included a very randy (and funny) scene between the Doctor and Amy, he had it kick off a sub-plot which came to a conclusion at the end of 'Amy's Choice', or arguably 'The Big Bang'...and you have no issue with it.
I just find it a bit contradictory, and since you applauded Moffat for not including any 'gratuitous' references to homosexuality specifically, it sort of places your views in an awkward light.
I'm sorry to JohnFlawbod, as he's right. The OP's question could've been answered no problem, but for some reason an argument to disprove the notion of a 'Gay Agenda' turns into an SM vs RTD ... well...noise. I fell for the bait which wasn't even bait. I'll shush now.
My opinion: There was no gay agenda, and whatever was perceived as a gay agenda back then is still present in the show now.
The "old" series rarely contained any sexuality of any sort. I vividly remember being shocked to the core when Flowerchild and Bellboy kissed in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. DW has grown up now: it's less sexless than it was, and is a better reflection of society than it was. In the old days, whole seasons would go past with barely any significant female characters. The Crusade features Julian Glover in blackface. All that now seems of a different age. Telly has moved on, and now reflects society far more than it used to.
Society has become more sexualised in recent years, and I can't say I approve. (Booming music in the playground at my local primary school fete: "I see you baby, shaking that ass"). That sex is now everywhere is not healthy.
Maybe the question should be about whether society has too much of a sexual agenda, rather than whether DW has too much of a gay agenda?
Society has become more sexualised in recent years, and I can't say I approve. (Booming music in the playground at my local primary school fete: "I see you baby, shaking that ass"). That sex is now everywhere is not healthy.
Maybe the question should be about whether society has too much of a sexual agenda, rather than whether DW has too much of a gay agenda?
Originally Posted by chuffnobbler:
“The "old" series rarely contained any sexuality of any sort. I vividly remember being shocked to the core when Flowerchild and Bellboy kissed in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. DW has grown up now: it's less sexless than it was, and is a better reflection of society than it was. In the old days, whole seasons would go past with barely any significant female characters. The Crusade features Julian Glover in blackface. All that now seems of a different age. Telly has moved on, and now reflects society far more than it used to.
Society has become more sexualised in recent years, and I can't say I approve. (Booming music in the playground at my local primary school fete: "I see you baby, shaking that ass"). That sex is now everywhere is not healthy.
Maybe the question should be about whether society has too much of a sexual agenda, rather than whether DW has too much of a gay agenda?”
“The "old" series rarely contained any sexuality of any sort. I vividly remember being shocked to the core when Flowerchild and Bellboy kissed in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. DW has grown up now: it's less sexless than it was, and is a better reflection of society than it was. In the old days, whole seasons would go past with barely any significant female characters. The Crusade features Julian Glover in blackface. All that now seems of a different age. Telly has moved on, and now reflects society far more than it used to.
Society has become more sexualised in recent years, and I can't say I approve. (Booming music in the playground at my local primary school fete: "I see you baby, shaking that ass"). That sex is now everywhere is not healthy.
Maybe the question should be about whether society has too much of a sexual agenda, rather than whether DW has too much of a gay agenda?”
Good point. Very good point.
3 of 4
