What is with all these celebs bashing who all of a sudden anyway they seem to be new reports every week now.
Is Dr Who a children's programme?
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Originally Posted by Galifrey:
“And yet people are confused by the series finale?”
“And yet people are confused by the series finale?”
Sorry, I'm not quite sure how this relates to me saying that it hasn't become more clever? Or do you mean to say it's so clever that not everyone understood it? If something is so clever that not everyone understands it, it could be said to be confusing and not clever. I don't think that is the case though for the finale.
My personal opinion is that quite a few things were left unanswered for the christmas special or the next series, and that's why things are maybe not quite clear (e.g. best example is the scene with the second doctor in the Angel's episode, it was quite a random scene and what he told her didn't make sense, however when you saw it at the end it did make sense). I expect the same will be happening in the next series, Moff himself said that we have seen things that might not make sense but that will be revealed.
Originally Posted by Chris_TV:
“What is with all these celebs bashing who all of a sudden anyway they seem to be new reports every week now.”
“What is with all these celebs bashing who all of a sudden anyway they seem to be new reports every week now.”
It was the same with Harry Potter a few years ago. If something becomes fashionable, it becomes fashionable to bash it - especially if you're a publicity seeking talking-head.
Doctor Who is a family show and was 'created' as a family show. The original lineup was made up of characters each targeting a different part of the family, susan - children, ian - teenagers, barbara - older women, doctor - older men. That's what it says on the production documents.
Secondly, the show has always been show in a 'family' slot, apart from the davison era. If it was a children's show, surely it would be in the same vicinity of sja in the schedules?
At the risk of patronizing you by telling you what a family show is - it contains childish parts for children and less childish parts for adults. It aims to have a foot in both camps because a typical nuclear family is half children half adults.
Some people complain it's too childish, some people complain it's unsuitable for 'exclusively' children. If it were a children's programme, these would be conflicting views. Since it is a family show, there is a balance.
In terms of recent pops at the show, it makes more sense to criticize a possible imbalance of immature and mature themes within the same show rather than to take half of the demographic out of the equation and then wonder why they are attracted to the show!
does that make sense? I might try and repost a clearer argument. sorry for the long post.
Secondly, the show has always been show in a 'family' slot, apart from the davison era. If it was a children's show, surely it would be in the same vicinity of sja in the schedules?
At the risk of patronizing you by telling you what a family show is - it contains childish parts for children and less childish parts for adults. It aims to have a foot in both camps because a typical nuclear family is half children half adults.
Some people complain it's too childish, some people complain it's unsuitable for 'exclusively' children. If it were a children's programme, these would be conflicting views. Since it is a family show, there is a balance.
In terms of recent pops at the show, it makes more sense to criticize a possible imbalance of immature and mature themes within the same show rather than to take half of the demographic out of the equation and then wonder why they are attracted to the show!
does that make sense? I might try and repost a clearer argument. sorry for the long post.
IMO it's a family programme. Whilst the child audience are the main focus of the franchise, it doesn't fall short of entertainment that adults can enjoy. As a matter of fact I've said before that we as adults can appreciate it more in a way, because we will generally have a better understanding of the often in-depth and complex storylines.
Does it really matter if it is a children's programme though? Harry Potter is aimed at children, yet has gained plenty of adult fans over the years. The genuinely adult attitude is to not a give a stuff what others think of the programme and just watch it anyway if you like it.
Does it really matter if it is a children's programme though? Harry Potter is aimed at children, yet has gained plenty of adult fans over the years. The genuinely adult attitude is to not a give a stuff what others think of the programme and just watch it anyway if you like it.
I have always considered Doctor Who to be a family show that is suitable to be watched by every age group, ranging from the very young to the very old.
The important thing is that I enjoy the show and as such I will continue to watch it depsite what over people say about it.
I do feel that the immense success of the 2005 onwards series has attracted some shall we say envious feelings from other show biz types, and I worry that their biased ramblings in the media might affect the shows longevity considering the political and financial pressure the BBC is currently under. As the saying goes, mud sticks.
I must say though that amongst my family, friends and even colleagues at work Doctor Who is very popular and not just with the stereotypical sci-fi fans amongst us. Lets hope the BBC continues listen to the vast majority of viewers that love the show and not to the minority of highly vocal critics.
The important thing is that I enjoy the show and as such I will continue to watch it depsite what over people say about it.
I do feel that the immense success of the 2005 onwards series has attracted some shall we say envious feelings from other show biz types, and I worry that their biased ramblings in the media might affect the shows longevity considering the political and financial pressure the BBC is currently under. As the saying goes, mud sticks.
I must say though that amongst my family, friends and even colleagues at work Doctor Who is very popular and not just with the stereotypical sci-fi fans amongst us. Lets hope the BBC continues listen to the vast majority of viewers that love the show and not to the minority of highly vocal critics.
Next I request DS asks Nadia from Big Brother and Abbey Clancy about what Doctor Who means to them, for purposes of lecturing the ming mongs in true Private Eye spoons column style.
Also, why do people say that it's a show for children that 'happens' to appeal to adults? What do they mean 'happens'? Why would they assume it's an accident of some kind, or a guilty pleasure? There are millions of adult doctor who fans. Too many for it to be made of people who should supposedly know better. You can't compare them to those grown men who watch Big cook little cook and feel guilty! grrr
Originally Posted by nathanbrazil:
“DW certainly began as a children's show, and maintained that position for much of its history.”
“DW certainly began as a children's show, and maintained that position for much of its history.”
Really? Funny, Philip Hinchcliffe and Bob Holmes didn't seem to think they were making a childrens show (in fact, you'd have to have been mad to have allowed a young child to watch Who in, say, 1976) and neither did JNT, so that's about twelve years out of 26 when it certainly wasn't. I doubt many kids got much of season 7, either...
Quote:
“ But then, along came the Ecclestone and Tennant eras, where DW had gravitas”
“ But then, along came the Ecclestone and Tennant eras, where DW had gravitas”
Is this a joke?
Quote:
“and the writing was often geared toward an older audience, the millions who had grown up with DW, and now wanted something smarter than the usual bunkum. It was sometimes brilliant. Then came Matt Smith, an actor convinced that DW is for 12 year-olds. Suddenly the show was dumbed down, and that's when I gave up.
”
“and the writing was often geared toward an older audience, the millions who had grown up with DW, and now wanted something smarter than the usual bunkum. It was sometimes brilliant. Then came Matt Smith, an actor convinced that DW is for 12 year-olds. Suddenly the show was dumbed down, and that's when I gave up.
”
Good-oh. Thank you for that scintillating contribution. Next!
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“in fact, you'd have to have been mad to have allowed a young child to watch Who in, say, 1976”
“in fact, you'd have to have been mad to have allowed a young child to watch Who in, say, 1976”
You and I were watching it then, weren't we?
Not together, I should add.
Originally Posted by outside:
“You and I were watching it then, weren't we?
Not together, I should add.”
“You and I were watching it then, weren't we?
Not together, I should add.
”
Yes, we were-but even the people creating the show said at the time that they'd think twice before letting a kid under eight watch it alone and that they were aiming at, at the lower end, 'intelligent fourteen year olds'. I loved it as a kid, but it was certainly a bit near the mark at times (Deadly Assassin, I'm looking at you...).
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Yes, we were-but even the people creating the show said at the time that they'd think twice before letting a kid under eight watch it alone and that they were aiming at, at the lower end, 'intelligent fourteen year olds'. I loved it as a kid, but it was certainly a bit near the mark at times (Deadly Assassin, I'm looking at you...).”
“Yes, we were-but even the people creating the show said at the time that they'd think twice before letting a kid under eight watch it alone and that they were aiming at, at the lower end, 'intelligent fourteen year olds'. I loved it as a kid, but it was certainly a bit near the mark at times (Deadly Assassin, I'm looking at you...).”
Didn't Robert Holmes say that, though, because Jean Rook went off on a rant about mummies trying to kill her little darlings when she was frying fish fingers?
He also said - though I've forgotten the source - that he was quite happy to "scare the little buggers". Quite right, too.
Originally Posted by Galifrey:
“And yet people are confused by the series finale?”
“And yet people are confused by the series finale?”
Ah yes but only clever people who think too much are confused by it.
I watched DW in the 70's from the age of 6. In those days there wasn't so much hysteria about children watching shows with adult themes. I remember watching I Cladius when I was about 10!
I watched DW as a kid not because it was a kids show but that it was sci-fi show which I absolutely love.
I don't care what label you want to put on it it's still a great show.
I watched DW as a kid not because it was a kids show but that it was sci-fi show which I absolutely love.
I don't care what label you want to put on it it's still a great show.
Originally Posted by Facepalmer:
“I don't know if there's been a specific thread on this subject but it has been discussed in others. Is Dr Who a children's programme? A couple of minor celebrities have voiced their opinions recently (for whatever reason) and Moff himself has spoken of it -
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/...who-focus.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/...kids-show.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/...elevision.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/...criticism.html
This thread isn't to slag anyone off for their opinion but I'm more interested in how ordinary fans of the show feel. Personally I don't see Dr Who as a children's show but more of family show/drama.”
“I don't know if there's been a specific thread on this subject but it has been discussed in others. Is Dr Who a children's programme? A couple of minor celebrities have voiced their opinions recently (for whatever reason) and Moff himself has spoken of it -
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/...who-focus.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/...kids-show.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/...elevision.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/...criticism.html
This thread isn't to slag anyone off for their opinion but I'm more interested in how ordinary fans of the show feel. Personally I don't see Dr Who as a children's show but more of family show/drama.”
Doctor Who has never been produced by the BBC Children's Department - it has always been and probably always will be, produced by BBC Drama. The problem that the likes of Eve and Mitchell appear to have (odd with Eve, given his age) is that the concept of early evening "Family Viewing" died a death in the 80's and only underwent a resurgence in 2005 when the BBC brought back DW, pulled SCD into the schedules with Brucie and then cottoned on with Robin Hood and Merlin...ITV (as usual) played catch-up but produced Primeval and the failed Demons...to say that adults never enjoyed Doctor Who in the past unless their children were there is a sweeping generalisation...on a plus note, it is interesting that the likes of Mitchell (the less talented part of a double-act who will never get his own show) and Eve have realised that by castigating DW they get press coverage...that means DW is doing something right: sadly, Mitchell and Eve at the moment, are not.
Oh and by the way, if anyone believes that Morbius's brain flopping out of the jar and onto the floor only to be picked up by Solon was fit for children...do feel free to PM me
Originally Posted by BibaNova:
“I watched DW in the 70's from the age of 6. In those days there wasn't so much hysteria about children watching shows with adult themes. I remember watching I Cladius when I was about 10!
I watched DW as a kid not because it was a kids show but that it was sci-fi show which I absolutely love.
I don't care what label you want to put on it it's still a great show.”
“I watched DW in the 70's from the age of 6. In those days there wasn't so much hysteria about children watching shows with adult themes. I remember watching I Cladius when I was about 10!
I watched DW as a kid not because it was a kids show but that it was sci-fi show which I absolutely love.
I don't care what label you want to put on it it's still a great show.”
And we BOTH watched "Rock Follies"...even with those naughty neon nudes at the start
Sadly, ITV just torpedoed Bouquet of Barbed Wire showing that reboots don't always work...Mister Eve
Originally Posted by JCR:
“Next I request DS asks Nadia from Big Brother and Abbey Clancy about what Doctor Who means to them, for purposes of lecturing the ming mongs in true Private Eye spoons column style.”
“Next I request DS asks Nadia from Big Brother and Abbey Clancy about what Doctor Who means to them, for purposes of lecturing the ming mongs in true Private Eye spoons column style.”
Perhaps there should be a Whoballs column for celeb gobshitery about Doctor Who?
Originally Posted by JohnFlawbod:
“Doctor Who has never been produced by the BBC Children's Department - it has always been and probably always will be, produced by BBC Drama. The problem that the likes of Eve and Mitchell appear to have (odd with Eve, given his age) is that the concept of early evening "Family Viewing" died a death in the 80's and only underwent a resurgence in 2005 when the BBC brought back DW, pulled SCD into the schedules with Brucie and then cottoned on with Robin Hood and Merlin...ITV (as usual) played catch-up but produced Primeval and the failed Demons...to say that adults never enjoyed Doctor Who in the past unless their children were there is a sweeping generalisation...on a plus note, it is interesting that the likes of Mitchell (the less talented part of a double-act who will never get his own show) and Eve have realised that by castigating DW they get press coverage...that means DW is doing something right: sadly, Mitchell and Eve at the moment, are not.”
“Doctor Who has never been produced by the BBC Children's Department - it has always been and probably always will be, produced by BBC Drama. The problem that the likes of Eve and Mitchell appear to have (odd with Eve, given his age) is that the concept of early evening "Family Viewing" died a death in the 80's and only underwent a resurgence in 2005 when the BBC brought back DW, pulled SCD into the schedules with Brucie and then cottoned on with Robin Hood and Merlin...ITV (as usual) played catch-up but produced Primeval and the failed Demons...to say that adults never enjoyed Doctor Who in the past unless their children were there is a sweeping generalisation...on a plus note, it is interesting that the likes of Mitchell (the less talented part of a double-act who will never get his own show) and Eve have realised that by castigating DW they get press coverage...that means DW is doing something right: sadly, Mitchell and Eve at the moment, are not.”
Couldn't agree more. I've just mentioned in another thread how much attention Dr Who gets compared to Eastenders or Strictly or any of the "talent" shows. Not just in tv hours but in the media and there's tons of merchandising on that too. I can't see the point of anyone berating Who on that score.
Xmas tv is dominated by soaps and "talent" shows while Who gets an hour and is something the whole family can sit and watch and get a fuzzy crimbo feeling. Soaps just depress you and "talent" shows are just after phone-in money or advertising. My missus watches x factor which pretty much means I do (or I'm on here) and during last saturdays show I counted a 3 minute advert every 5minutes. Crazy. I know what I'd rather moan about!
So what if it is a kids show??. Should that stop adults from watching??
To give another example, I love watching Timmy Time but I'm 39. Does that mean I should be banned from watching it??
To give another example, I love watching Timmy Time but I'm 39. Does that mean I should be banned from watching it??
I watch children's programmes and family programmes and adult programmes. I'm happy to watch a 'U' certificate and an '18' certificate. Just because it's 'U' doesn't mean we can't watch it.
I thnk Doctor Who is a PG. It may have been a '12' once. Sarah Jane is a 'U', and Torchwood is a '15'.
I think I may have gone back a few years there with the gradings, but I understood them better in the good ole days.
I thnk Doctor Who is a PG. It may have been a '12' once. Sarah Jane is a 'U', and Torchwood is a '15'.
I think I may have gone back a few years there with the gradings, but I understood them better in the good ole days.
When it started it definitely was intended to be watched by children, roughly 8 to 14. The go-ahead for the first series was conditional on it having a number of educational historical serials (for example Marco Polo) and many of the early serials were moral plays.
One thing I noticed (aside from the comment about Doctor Who being a children's show: shock, horror) is that he was put off New Who because of the Doctor being "constantly heroic, smiley, moved by compassion" rather than being an "irritable, sarcastic, Uncle Quentin-type' who ultimately had his heart in the right place".
Now, I wasn't around in the old days, but surely only William Hartnell fits that bill? David grew up with Tom Baker and Peter Davison, and apparently used to dress up in an anorak wearing a stick of grass (like Five's celery).
He might like Matt Smith's tenure a bit more, if he has time to watch one of his...as Eleven is not constantly heroic...though still smiley and compassionate.
Now, I wasn't around in the old days, but surely only William Hartnell fits that bill? David grew up with Tom Baker and Peter Davison, and apparently used to dress up in an anorak wearing a stick of grass (like Five's celery).
He might like Matt Smith's tenure a bit more, if he has time to watch one of his...as Eleven is not constantly heroic...though still smiley and compassionate.
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“I think I may have gone back a few years there with the gradings, but I understood them better in the good ole days.”
“I think I may have gone back a few years there with the gradings, but I understood them better in the good ole days.
”
I just remembered, Series 1's 'Dalek' got a 12 rating because it had a scene where it was tortured! Ridiculous!
I liked Dead Ringers' take on that.
"We hope any Daleks watching were not offended by the show's content"
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