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Bi-Wiring , I'm confused with my terminals |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 21
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Bi-Wiring , I'm confused with my terminals
Here is the back of my AMP
http://www.avland.co.uk/denon/avr1907/rearlrg.jpg I have a 7.1 set up and have front main speakers with bi-wiring capabilities BUT I don't know what speaker terminals to connect them up to. I don't want to bi-amp but do want to use my speakers bi-wiring capability. I am only using one set of the front L/R terminals on the amp, can i use the other 2 free terminals on the amp for the other pair of front main speaker inputs? I don't actually know what else they are meant for on the amp!? I keep reading about using 5.1 instead of 7.1 and losing some of the surround channels to power the front mains but i have 2 front speaker terminals that are free, should i be using them? I'm confused! |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Sticks
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Looks to me like you have support for Zone A and Zone B on the fronts, so use them both to link to the front pair of speakers.
You will still have centre, mid L+R and rear L+R to give 7 channels. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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Bi-wiring is generally done from a single set of speaker outputs on the amp. So you remove the bi-wire links on the speakers and connect up two sets of speaker cable from the same outputs on the amp to drive the HF and LF input on the speakers.
If you're still confused then have a look at the picture here I'd be surprised if you found a significant benefit running bi-wire from an AV amp, but if you have the cable and you can make the connections safely then I think it's worth a try just for curiosity's sake. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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OK i'm even more baffled now cos theres so many options.
Basically these are the bi-wired speakers I've managed to bag http://www.wired4sound.net.au/speake...o_concert.html Now as you can see from the back of the amp i've got 8 outputs just for the front speakers. So if i am correct i should be able to use one channel on the amp for left speaker base and right speaker treble and the other channel for for right speaker base and left speaker treble. Yes? Or better one Amp channel for just base and the other for just treble? |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fylde Coast
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The connections for front speakers are labelled as A and B, this is meant to allow you to have separate speakers in a another room. Both using the same amplifiers.
If the receiver allows you to select both A and B at once then you can use the B terminals for bi-wiring. Bi-wiring and passive bi-amping are both a waste of cable in my experience.
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#6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,622
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-wiring
"Opponents of bi-wiring argue that the two ways of making connections are equivalent. This has led some to sarcastically refer to the practice as "buy-wiring", implying it is nothing more than a marketing gimmick for expensive speaker wire.[1]" A lot of audiophile stuff is the equivalent of homeopathy. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South West
Posts: 10,218
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@ Chris Quote:
I'd be surprised if you found a significant benefit running bi-wire from an AV amp, but if you have the cable and you can make the connections safely then I think it's worth a try just for curiosity's sake
I agree with you when used in AV mode, but most AV amps also have a stereo mode, where it "should" make a difference. I'm sure it does in mine, but the effect is very subtle. Nevertheless I bought cables for this many years ago (actually the cables have 4 leads in each, so there was no extra expense involved), so I can see no reason not to use them.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Seeing as i've got a single channel for each speaker terminal I would have thought that at least there is some difference with regards to power output!? As opposed to using only one amp channel and bridging the speaker connections. Yes/No?
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#9 |
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The idea is that you split the output between the the high frequencies and the low frequences. So, you're really just using the same amount of power per speaker.
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#10 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Reading
Posts: 27,927
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Quote:
OK i'm even more baffled now cos theres so many options.
Basically these are the bi-wired speakers I've managed to bag http://www.wired4sound.net.au/speake...o_concert.html Now as you can see from the back of the amp i've got 8 outputs just for the front speakers. So if i am correct i should be able to use one channel on the amp for left speaker base and right speaker treble and the other channel for for right speaker base and left speaker treble. Yes? Or better one Amp channel for just base and the other for just treble? That is always assuming the amp can power both A and B outputs at the same time, which the label above the terminals does seem to imply. In any case having A and B sets of terminals just makes the wiring a bit easier. When you press whatever buttons there are to power both sets of terminals the Left A and Left B are simply joined together, as are the Right A and Right B. So it would make no real difference if you ran two pairs of wires from the Left A terminals on the amp to the speaker and similarly for the right. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-wiring
"Opponents of bi-wiring argue that the two ways of making connections are equivalent. This has led some to sarcastically refer to the practice as "buy-wiring", implying it is nothing more than a marketing gimmick for expensive speaker wire.[1]" A lot of audiophile stuff is the equivalent of homeopathy. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Reading
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Quote:
Seeing as i've got a single channel for each speaker terminal I would have thought that at least there is some difference with regards to power output!? As opposed to using only one amp channel and bridging the speaker connections. Yes/No?
On that particular amp there are two sets of speaker terminals for the front left and right. But only two amps, one for the left and one for the right channel. The single Left(Right) amp is connected either to the A or B or both sets of terminals depending on the switch settings. You can tell this from the label above the terminals. In A or B mode it can drive 6 ohm or higher impedance speakers. In A and B mode the minimum impedance is now 12 ohm. That implies the A and B terminals are wired in parallel in A and B mode as two sets of 12 ohm speakers in parallel would present a 6ohm load to the amplifier. So whatever is on the A terminals will be on the B terminals as well. So it doesn't really make any difference whether you use A or B individually or as a pair. |
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#13 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Quote:
That article isn't particularly well balanced. It makes no attempt to balance the views of the Opponents, with the views of the Proponents.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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I recall bi-amping my Castle Conway speakers with NAD amps some years ago. It was a lot of effort to do - installing the extra cables.
When I listened to it afterwards I was sure that it sounded better. Though to make sure I installed a box which I could set at random which shorted out the bi-amp connections. Then I wrote down if I thought it was bi-amped or not and checked with the box settings. Turned out I couldn't tell the difference at all. Both sounded the same really. And that was bi-amping. I'm convinced that using an active crossover with two amps would sound better - especially if you can control the phase. Though I haven't had the nerve to remove the passive crossover from my Castles yet. Maybe next year ?
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 21
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Quote:
But you don't have an amplifier per terminal though.
On that particular amp there are two sets of speaker terminals for the front left and right. But only two amps, one for the left and one for the right channel. The single Left(Right) amp is connected either to the A or B or both sets of terminals depending on the switch settings. You can tell this from the label above the terminals. In A or B mode it can drive 6 ohm or higher impedance speakers. In A and B mode the minimum impedance is now 12 ohm. That implies the A and B terminals are wired in parallel in A and B mode as two sets of 12 ohm speakers in parallel would present a 6ohm load to the amplifier. So whatever is on the A terminals will be on the B terminals as well. So it doesn't really make any difference whether you use A or B individually or as a pair. Thanks guys. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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Quote:
Ah my speakers are 6 ohm so perhaps the best bet is to just use one of the so called amp channels rather than switch A&B both on on the amp. And I think i'll bridge the speaker connections also seeing as most people don't seem to notice a bi-wiring difference. Need only four wires now instead of 8. Its spaggetti junction behind my TV at the moment anyway!
Thanks guys. If you biwire the speakers the load as seen by the amplifier will be the same as if you just ran a single pair of wires to the speakers and bridged the speaker terminals. Electrically the two wiring arrangements are the same. It's just the number of wires required that differs
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
This is electronics, there are facts, not sides.
Your quote, not mine: Quote:
Opponents of bi-wiring argue......
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Try finding any ABX blind testing which prove that anyone, even the 'golden eared', can tell the difference between straight wiring and bi-wiring.
I bet you can't. ![]() Nobody who supports it is willing to go into a trial. |
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#19 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,622
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Quote:
Then why refer to "opponents"
Your quote, not mine: |
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