Which was what? She was exactly the same in her last episodee as in her first, loud, dumb and irritating.

And nothing happened to her between her first and last episodes...?



nyingy

Go and watch it again - watch the programme instead of being outraged at RTD writing it. All the information is there for you to see, you obviously aren't paying enough attention.

Indeed, Donna's 'journey' from the person we first see in The Runaway Bride to the one in Journey's End is a remarkable piece of characterisation and writing from RTD.

Season 3 - I wouldn't let Martha fall for the Doctor. She was much more interesting in the early episodes.

Excellently put. Of all four female companions since 2005, Donna is the one that actually makes me feel that I am travelling with her, that I am experiencing the adventures she embarks upon. The characterisation is brilliant. She is loud, she is a bit dappy but she isn't thick, and my goodness she is a compassionate and caring individual, someone exactly who the Doctor needed. RTD got her spot on. She is a little irresponsible due to her insecurity. She is insecure as she never really felt the maternal love from her mother. This made her a little gobby and over confident, but when she met the Doctor in The Runaway Bride, it became apparent to her that her life, up to that point, really hadn't amounted up to much.

It is incredible and warming to see her hunting the Doctor down in Partners in Crime as she obviously realised at that point that it was only the Doctor who could genuinely offer her fulfillment.

At the end of Journey's End, Donna was a much adored person who I personally could relate to. Catherine Tate played her brilliantly and the combination of Tate's acting and RTD's masterful writing, makes me realise that series 4 is about as much of a perfection as it ever could be.

I am still waiting to warm to Amy. I don't dislike her. She is feisty and confident but totally different to Donna. It's not Karen Gillan's fault. She plays her well enough, but I feel that her character needs a bit more ooomph! before I could ever take to her in the same way as Donna.

I do agree with Ting about Martha though. Of all companions of Nu-Who, she is the most wooden. Freema played her to the best of her ability, but I feel the character of Martha was too complexed to be played by a virtual novice.

I agree with you to an extent. The character of Donna clearly develops through her time in the tardis, however, I feel that some of the complexities are lost in the portrayal by Tate which at times felt cartoonish and too similar to her performance in her sketch show.

For me personaly the character was too "gobby and over confident" to be likeable. I always had an issue with Tates sketch show, where I felt that the un pleasant characters like the nasty gran or the "am I bovered" girl felt like the heroes of sketch not the target of the humour.

I think this leeked into that series of Doctor Who, I felt like the Gobby aspect of Tates character was so un likeable that I didn't enjoy the show as much as I could have, I suppose I agree with tingram in that, had I met someone like Donna Noble at the start of her time in Doctor Who I probably would have crossed the road to avoid her.

Its not a class issue or about her being "stupid", I just thought she over exagerated the unpleasant gobby aspect of the character, and in my humble oppinion this comes from her background in the sketch show, where exagerating sterotypes is the point. This for me didn't translate well into the drama/adventure genre.

Trouble is, and I'm not disagreeing with you, that if we hadn't before seen Tate's sketch show, we wouldn't be able to compare her performance to it and therefore, her portrayal of Donna in Who would have been spot on. I think we have to ignore previous projects with a lot of actors/actresses as to constantly compare them to previous roles can sometimes lead to us being disappointed.

I still believe Donna was absolutely brilliant. I would say that if it was Moffatt that created her too.

I think elements of her performance just needed to be toned down a little. As I say, her entire background is in spotting character types and exagerating them for comedy effect, and I think she does this well. For me though, a more subtle approach would have made the character easier to relate to as a real person. For this reason I think Tate was well suited to a one off Christmas day episode, but a more traditional actor would have played a reccuring long term companion better.

Fair enough thats your view, but given how popular Tate' s Donna has been I think it's fair to say that the majority of the viewers were quite have with Tate in the role....

Indeed, equally her sketch show and the "bovvered" character are very popular, personally I found both pretty terrible.

Too often the humour seemed to be laughing with the unpleasant characters at their victims, I didn't find it enjoyable viewing.

I'm quite proud to be out of step with public oppinion in that respect, this is of course the same public that got "shaddupayourface" to number one over Viena

I think Donna's gobbyness was an integral part of her character, and her over the top reactions were her defence mechanism for her insecurities. As her series progressed, she was much less knee-jerk reaction - her performance in Turn Left was probably better than what a traditional actor would have turned in. Her compassion in Planet of the Ood was heartbreaking too.

Amy is gobby too, even more than Donna, but her journey is the realisation that she loves Rory, her portrayal is selfish, and it's all about her. She behaves as though she knows everything about the doctor in the 2nd episode, and she appears to know everything about Bracewell in the 3rd episode. She has no redeeming features so far.

I love Amy's character arc, she is a messed up kid who is somewhat straightened out emotionally come the ending of The Big Bang. She has plenty of redeeming features, even if she isn't in Donna's league (but then who is?).

Amy as a character is a brilliant concept. Her story arc and her journey to discover her love for Rory is writing supreme from SM. However, sometimes I think that Karen while playing the role enthusiastically and so obviously with enjoyment, fails to deliver real emotion to make her character a little more believable. I don't dislike Amy and I think the deliverance of some of her more comedic lines has been wonderful, the friendship she's developed for the Doctor has been superb. But, she still has to grow on me as something, not sure what, is just not there! I took to Donna instantly, but although I find Karen's very sexy Scottish accent a big turn on ( oo er! fetch a bucket Granville!) I want to like her so much more than I currently do!

My feeling is that from a character perspective, we weren't supposed to be quite sure about Amy in the first instance, and that seems to be backed up by what Karen herself has said about character development in the next series....

Well you never know! She may turn out to be the best yet! I am so missing a weekly fix of Who though! i would settle for Ann Widdecombe as companion if we could have an episode tonight!

that is a scary thought!

I know........on second thoughts perhaps I will watch episodes 1-3 of series 4 tonight instead!

I will admit that her performance in turn left was a good part of a very good episode, however, I do feel that early in the episode there are perfect example of her acting style being cartoonish, in the hotel prior to the titanic crash for example.

I understand that we have to see a change in her for the story to work but I almost felt that Donna's gobbyness was conveyed with a sledgehammer when something more delicate may have produced a better end result.

Donna had a very particular character development which made her memory loss in Journey's End and subsequent return to the "old" Donna all the more poignant, so I'm not sure what you were / wewren't watching to make you say that...

Can't believe what Tony said, Donna was agreeably loud and irritating in The Runaway Bride but from thereon in, thought she mellowed a little by Series 4 and became quite likeable actually. Can't say she really annoyed me at all during Series 4.

3. I'd delete Martha.
Even surppasses the annoying manner of the Doctor in 4/Specials

I watched New Earth on BBC3 the other night, and Rose really grated on me right from the first scene when she's gurning and simpering ("Apple grass" etc). It was as if she'd lost all her wonderment, humility and awe that made her so likeable with CE, and turned into a totally different character, much too smug for my liking.

I tried to get my head round this change of personality--after all we all behave differently with different people, I understand that, and I get that Ten brought out something new in her. But she was literally like a different person, and there's something about her behaviour and the Doctor's reciprocal flirting that sort of diminishes the Doctor, if that makes sense.

I honestly can't remember if I thought all this first time around, or if it just has more of an impact with the beauty of hindsight. Anyway, I wouldn't replace series 2 as such, but maybe replacing Rose with a more-like-series-1 Rose would be my choice.

I can't believe alot of what he says, and I suspect neither can he!

Well DW has always had the burden of repetitive themes. I'd remove the RTD era of companions 'dying' only for said death to be an analogy for some other kind of loss.

In general I would replace some episodes and some stuff that really jars with me like Ianto's awful fake laughter at Paul O'Grady in The Stolen Earth.

Speaking of which I would definitely remove the 'celebrity' cameos.