Well, I think that happened twice (Rose and Donna) over 4 years. Not really as repetetive as Moff killing either Amy or Rory 4 times in 7 episodes!

This I like More Eccleston can never be a bad thing.

I liked Rose in series 1, her interaction with the 9th Doctor worked- which made the horror of series 2 all the worse by comparison. While I wouldn't mind seeing a companion killed off (permanently) in the new series- it would make the point that travelling with the Doctor is dangerous and he can't always save everyone- if we had a second 9th Doctor series, I wouldn't kill Rose by time vortex (he can save her without regenerating), keep her around until they meet the cybermen then have her 'upgraded'- instant truly scary cybermen. The Doctor would then have to kill cyber-Rose in the process of defeating said cybermen.

And definitely no floaty glowy Doctor. Or Martha having a crush on him. Martha had the potential to be a great character- what a waste.

At least Donna can spell Thick....


yep I agree....





surely that shouldn't be a problem with you...considering that once you said the main purpose of companions was to ask questions and therefore move the plot along.....(although Martha in my view was very well written, and not a cipher, and yes Freema wasn't that strong of an actress, but bettter than Sarah Sutton ever was in her time as Nyssa, heck even the character was the most blandest one ever)



So I am guessing you have no idea about the episode The Death of the Doctor in SJA then???



yep I agree with you both....


Its the whole "common" thing that maes look like he is being snobbish about their backgrounds....


Yet she isn't think at all....



Its funny how you are so dismiss her other character traits and development...but were always quick to have a go at those hwo moaned that all Amy ever did was stare widely.....why don't you take your own advise and watch properly....



I prefferd her in the later half of the series when she was getting over her crush slowly, and was even happy to slap him to knock some sens into him


But she is a tradtional actor.....she has done more than just comedy....

In all fairness, I am not a big fan of her comedy either, but one thing is for sure, all the characters that she performs have become so iconic that they last in some audiences minds so much so that thy can't accept them in different roles, because with her comedy show, she has almost taken a p*ss out of all types of people in this world...from young girls, to old ladies, from shy women to loud women....and no matter whether you think its funny or not, there is no denying that each and every character is different from the other....Nan is nothing like Lauren for example.....she is really good at becoming those characters....so when she plays Donna, bcause she has a her own face, and Donna is fiesty and loud mouth as are some of the characters she plays...people will sometimes see then there....she isn't the only one to suffer this, for example Michael Sheen, I loved his protrayel as Tony Blair, he had the perfect face, he became Tony Blair, that now no matter what role he does, I see shades of his Tony Blair.....this isn't Michael's fault...he is a wonderful actor, but he left such an impact on me as Tony Blair that I do occasionaly find it hard to get it out of my mind. With CT, I was able to forget the other characters that she has protrayed, because, even though I had seen her comedy, they weren't iconic to for me...I didn't care much for them....so for me when people say that it sounds like Nan is talking or whatever...for me its Donna, because the script is asking her to be like that.



Doctor Who is also very popular...in fact moreso than the CT show....and Donna is more iconic and popular than any of her characters in the comedy show.....

So your not really out of step one way or the other...because their is no diffinite type of people who like one or the other....


She is selfish....but then so was Rose...in fact Rose was moreso...while Amy was a bit lost, her life felt incomplete, she knew she was missing something, but didn't know what...so her behaviour came about because of that.....



But the whole point of the OTT shouting and reactions from Donna were that they were her mask to protect her from the little insecure girl that she was.....the one that for example in Turn Left coms home to tell her mum that she hasn't found a job, or the one that tells her grandad that she wanted to look after him as he grew old....none of those scenes are done with any shouting, or face making....its obvious that they are part of her character mask that she wore....the whole of Turn Left shows her development over the series so well.....she starts off loud mouth, "whatever" attitude.....to a woman who is simply staring at the truck and says "please...."
Those subtle moments show that the other stuff is major part of her mask...or the child in her that gets very excited sometimes.....I don't know if you have read any of the books which the she is in....but even in those you can hear those OTT character moments that you feel she as an actor is exaggerating.....she's not....its part of the character, and she is perfoming her....and many other roles she has done proove that she isn't like that in real life....


She hasn't always been in awe or had humility even in series one.....take the Empty Child....and how she kept going on at the Doctor about giving her some "spock".....in fact in New Earth, and her reaction to be being there is the first time she shows any sense of wonderment in a long time.....
But overall it was a theme in series two, about how Rose was changing, and becoming smug like the Doctor....as Jackie says to her in Army of Ghosts....so even if Nine had stayed, and Billie was still leaving...chances are that we still would have had a similar theme...as it was already developing in series one....and forshadowed in the Christmas Invasion when she said that someone has to be the Doctor....I know its not a theme that worked well with everyone....but I liked it myself....its different, it showed she was flawed, it showed that not everything is so perfect when you travel with the Doctor....and people do change.....so for me it was a real development....And I like how all three got different developments, Martha was the one who was totally smitten, and by the end she realised that she was better than the Doctor, and didn't need him....whilec Donna was already specail, but just didn't know, and when she finally thought she was better due to a superficial power, that was the one thing that took her back to square one....but as Turn Left shows, that when the going will get tough, she will realise how special she really is....all very different...and again with Amy, a nice different development as well....



For me i won't change anything to tell you the truth...because if this thread has made me realise anything....its that we all have different opinions, and hopes....but even for those things that we may hate, someone else will love it...so why would I want to take that away from them.....in the end, with its highs or lows....there has been something for everyone since 1963!!! and Long may that remian.....

I'm so pleased you are back

i feel left out...she didn't quote me.

Clearly Crazzy doesn't love me anymore...

*sniffs*

aww thankyou....I'm really pleased to be back!!! Missed this place and you guys!!!!!


Well I have quoted you Now!!!

Oops wrong thread.

*is mildly placated*

She loves you and she is right


Sorry crazzy if you disappear again, I might have to send out Captain Jack, Ianto and the Doctor to find you.

Interestingly, I am more familiar with Sheen from the Damed United and I commented to my friend the other day that I watched the Blair/Clinton film the other night half expecting him to say "President of the USA, so what, I'm Brian Clough!!".



I personally don't think Tate's acting is comparable to Sheen's. As I've said, I accept the argument that there is a reason for her OTT behaviour and that this is part of the performance, however, to me I didn't feel the way tate chose to portray the character was believable.

It had to be ott to convey the vulnerablity of the character but for me, a better character actor like Sheen would have been able to convey that vulnerability without the cartoonish portrayal of Tate's Donna.

But if you hadn't seen her in her comedy sketch, this could easily be explained as a loud-mouth essex type girl, who is OTT to cover her insecurities.

Keep the Time Lord's!

Oh good...hopefully this extra quote will win you over completely!!!


Jack, Ianto, and the Doctor looking for little me????

*makes plans to not visit this forum for about two days!!!*



Have you seen Sheen as Kenneth Williams? For me there the man plays Cartoonish to the pro...why because that is how the script required him to do so...because Ken always had this cartoonish campish personality on display....
Its easier to praise Sheen for doing such a thing, because we know and have seen Ken like that (but imagine someone who had no idea who Williams was? Sheen would just look as if he was OTT acting camp)....but we literally do not have a real Donna that we could say for sure that is who CT is definitely acting as...no because Donna is a made up character with her own fictional stoty being brought to life on the small screen, so when CT is required to act OTT, she will act OTT, when she is required to subtle moments...she would do subtle moments....if Sheen was asked to play it like that...I have a feeling you still won't have liked it. I think here the issue may be that you just don't like that side of Donna....but as a performer...CT is doing the way the character is supposed to be in her OTT moments. for me the proof of the pudding is that you say she is good when she isn't doing those OTT moments of her character....but you see, if she was a rubbish actress, then she wouldn't be able to play those small quiet moments either...they roo would seem cartoonish so to say....

But I guess as with everything, CT/Donna just doesn't work for you for what ever reason...which is fair enough, I was just trying to give another side to the story....it would be a boring world if we all felt the same....

Have to disagree with you here Crazy. There is in no way any kind of evidence to suggest Catherine Tate is able to perform on the same level as Micheal Sheen. This isn't intended as a slight to her performance in Doctor Who, or her role as Donna Noble - both of which I am very fond of - just to say that she more than capably delivered what was required of her in series 4, but that this doesn't mean she would be able to deliver the kinds of performance that Sheens has during his career. I see no evidence of any subtle moments of performance in Doctor Who. The show is constructed on foundations of pure pathos - which is why I love it.

I wasn't making a comparison or refuting your point, just it was something I found annoying.

The only thing I would say, when I watched the series 4 finale I didn't think for one minute that a companion would die simply because I could tell RTD was using a similar device to Rose in Doomsday. On the other hand I had no idea in series 5 that Rory would be resurrected.

I wasn't trying to say that CT is excatly the same as Sheen, I think they are both wonderful actors, and yes Sheen is more the pro...what i was trying to argue was the argument Neel put forward about how the likes of Sheen would show the vunrable side and subtle's of Donna's OTT's in a more beliavable way...an what I was arguing was that CT played her asthe character was written as was supposed to be played....that her subtle moments show that there was point in her OTT and loudness...that if an actor of Sheen's capabilities played Donna with those charateristics...we would see what Neel feels are cartoonish moments....just like he plays Williams....


As for subtle moments...well I can think of plenty....for example, in Fires of Pompeii, when Donna places her hands on the Doctor's...sayd it all without a single word, or her smile as the Doctor sees Rose, or When she realises th choice she has to ake in Turn Left when she sees the Truck, or when she is walking up to the Doctor in Midnight, knowing he needs a hug...no quips or smirk, just a silent look....or when even in the Runaway Bride, when she is telling the Dctor that is is going to walk in the dust.....

**decides not to send out Ianto, Captain Jack and the Doctor for crazzy**

I agree and that's how I understood your comment. I absolutely love Sheen, but Catherine Tate played the character as it was written and required of her. All non-subtleties are due to the character not her inability to act.

Oh i'm not Crazzy.....she disappeared a long time ago....I think it will be wise to send out that search party for her....I'm sure all three of them will be very successfull in locating Crazzy

I agree with your second paragraph though!!!!

Does the set of DT specials during 2009 count as a series ?

In that case, that one because I've never been subjected to such a string of ostentatious, self-effacing drivel since I watched an episode of Big Brother (many moons ago.) The portrayals were out-of-character, the stories stilted and manufactured, interjected humour was mis-placed, casting was dubious, scripting too in some places and final revelations were unbelievable, ill-fitting and un-fulfilling.... How WoM gained such high recommendation, I do not understand. Maybe the critics watched a different cut to the one I saw on TV.

... In my opinion. No, I would happily dump that entire set of episodes for an open ended story set in a quarry in sussex that had at least an element of continuity to it.

D

For me, Planet of the Dead and The Waters of Mars were not much more than filler fodder, although the latter had a few gimmicks that kept it going. They were both good, but by no means 'special'. Before them, The Next Doctor started good, but after the Cybermen/graveyard scene, I began to lose interest and it got quite dull. All hope was lost when that robot emerged from the Thames. The only redeeming factor was the brilliant Dervla Kirwan.

The End of Time: Part 1, so disappointing for reasons I have explained before. Part 2, a vast improvement, but by no means reaching its full potential.

For me, it would have to be Series Two.

I'd either keep Christopher Eccleston on for another series with Billie Piper, or ditch Billie and have Ten and Jack for a series, before bringing in Martha at the start of Series 3.

Series 3, in my eyes at least (and I know I'm in a minority here!) is irreplacable, as is Series 5.

The latter half of Series 4 I could do without though, especially the Rose stuff and the massive dollop of cheese that was the second part of the finale.

I'd change series 1. Don't bother with Eccleston, get McGann back. And have Sheridan Smith as his companion.

I loved series 2, couldn't actually see any difference in Rose, except she was growing closer to and becoming more like the Doctor. I liked Martha, I thought her storyline was good and she was excellent in Human Nature/Family of Blood, but there were a lot of duff stories in series 3, imo.

CT was excellent as Donna. I don't like Tate as a comedian, and I thought she was way too loud in The Runaway Bride, so my heart sank at the thought of her as companion, but long before the end of series 4, thanks to her brilliant character development she became my favourite companion.

The specials......well, I'd obliterate Voyage of the Damned from History, but the rest were OK...ish And I loved every second of TEoT, parts 1&2.

Series 5. Apart from the Eleventh Hour and The Pandorica Opens, I'm afraid I'd like to have Moff try again and try to do a bit better.

The trouble is, where other series have some poor episodes, they also have some Brilliant ones (series 1 had The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances series 3 had Blink etc) I don't think series 5 did, except maybe for The Pandorica Opens.

Series 3. Have the Doctor regenerate probably, not the cheat that RTD gave us. That way, we wouldn't have the angst-ridden specials in 2009.

Hhmm. Well. right, series 3 with Freema has to go. Did not like her acting, did not like her story arc, hated the stupid series end, cannot take to John Simm as the master, DT's over acting reached a new high.

But then we had what was for me a great high in series 4, and perhaps series 4 would not have been as good as it was if series 3 had not existed, so, on balance, please PLEASE expunge the S4 Specials from history, consign them to the crack, please PLEASE

I hope you followed that, I know what I meant

I completely appreciate this point, but none of this provides any evidence that she is a comparable performer to Sheen. I'm not saying that she isn't, just that I don't think she's appeared in anything that's required her to show if she has got those acting chops.