Didn't see the second series was it an improvement on the first?

In a word, yes.

In a few more words... I think it just has to be compared to other shows on FOX rather than Idol (though that will happen in the media anyway). After Idol, their big reality hit is Hell's Kitchen which will probably average a 3.0-3.5 this season. So long as it doesn't flop, I think the only impact the ratings will have is on exactly how much Cowell can earn out of it.

But isn't that what they have been trying to do in January-March for the past couple of years?

Though if Cowell does move XF/BGT, I expect part of any deal with ITV would involve them commissioning a new format from his production company.

Seven
18:00 Seven News 1.52m
18:30 Today Tonight 1.41m
19:00 Home and Away 1.09m
19:30 Series Premiere: Border Security 1.46m
20:00 Series Premiere: The Force 1.37m
20:30 City Homicide 1.01m

Nine
18:00 Nine News 1.19m
18:30 A Current Affair 1.13m
19:00 Two and a Half Men (R) 0.94m
19:30 Series Premiere: The Block 1.13m
20:30 New: The Boss is Coming to Dinner 0.79m

Ten
18:00 The Simpsons (R) 0.58m
18:30 Neighbours 0.61m
19:00 The 7pm Project 0.88m
19:30 Season Premiere: Glee 1.23m
20:30 Season Premiere: House 0.91m

ABC1
20:30 Spicks and Specks 1.42m
21:00 The Gruen Transfer 1.45m

Primetime Shares
Seven: 27.9%
Nine: 26.3%
Ten: 21.2%
ABC: 20.2%

Well yes, they have invested in new programmes at the time of the year but ITV could invest so much more without having to pay Cowell his millions and have X Factor take up the schedules so much in the run up to Christmas.

I understand the whole point that X Factor's revenue is massive and helps shows around it but an X Factor free autumn lets ITV get behind new programmes and lets them see for themselves if they can cope without X Factor.

Well I did read somewhere ( where i have forgot!!) that the apparent ITV Andrew Lloyd Webber musical show would be a co production with Syco.

And on the last BBC series it changed from A BBC Entertainment production to a Talkback Thames production i.e co producers of BGT & XF so it seems plausable.

Could a ALW show not replace BGT in the spring.
With BGT around the same time as X Factor, up to say October Half Term - for the "Final Week"
Then X Factor before/after Christmas and then delay DOI a bit. With a possible 2nd ALW show slightly later, say spring to summer and then if the XF US does well just repeat.

I thinkif the ALW sho on ITV is true that hopefully it should be "bigger" especially with a possible Syco input.

But we know that "Cowell's millions" aren't particularly significant at an organisation where £70m is sunk into unprofitable football rights every year. I also wouldn't say that the commissions in January lacked the required budgets. They just weren't hits.

Instead not having to pay Cowell ends up as a significant net loss for ITV and lower profits mean lower budgets and far less willingness to take risk. The idea that ITV "save" £Xm a year by not having Cowell around is a rather one dimensional way of looking at it. By that reasoning, they could probably save several times as much by getting rid of Coronation Street.

All that is going to change is that ITV are going to find themselves trying to fill entertainment slots for a second part of the year (Aug-Dec) when they can't even fill the gaps in the first part (Jan-Mar).

The best way to survive beyond hit shows is to develop around the hits - FOX didn't cancel American Idol to make Glee. They used Idol. When CSI was at its peak, CBS didn't cancel it. But they did look for other gaps in their schedule and bring through new hits.

I think it was just a suggestion on a media blog as oppose to "inside information". But I'd imagine that Cowell will want his own format - one which he owns and can sell internationally rather than just produce under contract.

As for Talkback, Webber went there because of an Exec Producer called Suzy Lamb who had worked for the BBC in the past on his shows. She doesn't work on Cowell's shows. On that note, Talkback recently split their entertainment department recently. Lamb is "Head of Talkback Thames Entertainment Productions". Cowell's shows are overseen by Andrew Llinares, "Head of Talkback Thames Syco Co-Productions."

Tbh, I doubt Talkback would be too thrilled at having to share the Webber shows with Cowell!

Im not saying cancel X Factor or force it off the air but to use the space and resources to try out new shows for the time it is absent. Of the millions spent on X Factor, a fraction of that cost can be used on a cheaper alternative talent show to fill the vacuum left by it (Lloyd-Webber show, other singing type show etc). The new talent show will do well because people will be looking for an X Factor alternative. Im not saying it will get 19m for its final but im sure it would be a solid hit.

Then ITV is left with several £m to play with to spend on new drama, comedy and entertainment. Also, if they can get a new talent show hit on the cheap, that will make a lot of money if it returns for several series.

I agree that they're going to have to try out new shows in the gap but I just don't see it as a particularly positive side effect when they can't fill their schedule with hits as it is! I also doubt we'll see more money being invested in anything. Just cheaper shows on Saturday nights and lower expectations for them.

With regard to the Lloyd Webber shows, I don't think that's the way forward for Cowell or for ITV. They should both be looking for a new format. Though the ALW thing is the kind of "safe" move that I think ITV will go for - XF but cheaper and with lower ratings.

Personally, I think there's a gap where Saturday Night Takeaway was. A light ent show that aims to do nothing other than make people laugh. Several short features and sketches (think of the Youtube hits! ) and a few interactive elements. Of course, it's easier said than done. And there's a lack of presenting talent to carry that sort of show.

Right now, there's no real indication of what comes after talent shows for BBC1 or ITV1 on Saturday nights. Quiz shows seem difficult just now. Take Me Out did fine but it's not exactly Blind Date. Maybe it'll just go back to the situation at the start of the 2000's where people predicted the death of Saturday night TV?

Of course, if they move BGT to Sept-Dec, then this whole discussion is pointless!

X Factor not being on from Aug-Dec next year is going to be a big problem for ITV no question. But, ITV has an opportunity to make the situation not as bad as first thought.

I think we agree that creating a new talent show format to fill the gap would be a god option, if its successful then ITV have another returnable talent show to add to the list and it may also mean Cowell has a bit less bargaining power.

But your point about BGT being moved to X Factor's autumn slot is very possible too.

The stupid thing isthat they've had ample time to plan to cope without The X factor but not taken advantage of this. Look at the US ratings of late - how the channels have used their big shows to launch new programmes off relying on the lead in. When The X Factor switched to two nights last year (at the very latest) ITV should've been looking to take advantage. Instead they weren't bothered because they could stick all of their adverts in the X Factor and forget the rest.

If they had created estbalished programmes with The X Factor/Britain's Got Talent lead in - even using the Dancing On Ice sandwich as Wild at Heart should be left to sink or swim on it's own merits now - then they wouldn't be filled with such panic now The X Factor may move.

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Spooks had a good start on Monday but Bouquet of Barbed Wire held up well. EastEnders and Emmerdale seem to be getting the autumn bounce before Coronation Street which is rising more gradually. I think Coronation Street will slip to number two soap before the end of next year in he overall averages unless the anniversary is spectacular. As for Tuesday...BBC2 had a poor night but otherwise reasonable for ITV and good for BBC1.

I repeat my earlier suggestion that the simpliest solution to ITV's dilemma is to revive Pop Stars: The Rivals next Autumn.

Admittedly that's not necessarily a long-term solution - not sure it would it would be viable to create a brand new boy-band and a brand new girl-band every year - but it would give them some breathing space as they hunt for the next big programme and allow them to comfortably move their other hits to other times of the year.

Maybe the following year Pop Stars could be really bold and create a new instrumental group. It would incorporate elements of BGT as they search for a bass guitarist, a pianist, a drummer, yet still be a new format.

A lot of nonsense being spouted about Simon Cowell and ITV here I see.

Cowell doesnt cost ITV money that they could spend elsewhere. He makes ITV money that supports the low or negative margin programmes like the dramas and lesser LE shows.

If DS posters were running ITV it would be bankrupt in 3 months.

And this idea of returning to Pop Idol It would look like something on Five or Sky One. Like a Reliant Robin in an F1 race. Either do The X Factor or do something very different. No pale imitations please.

And I love the way that people take the reports from the Star, Mirror, etc as the full story. Dont you think their might (just might) be a bit of spinning going on and that maybe there is a definite plan for next year already in the bag but its more fun to drag it out a bit for PR purposes? Thats how all the great showbiz bosses of the past would do it anyway. Look at how many pages its got on DS for starters

It was as dull as dishwater.

The Family will be back though, I think. This isn't a replacement - we should be seeing it again soon.

Seven Days flopped big time with just 1.1m (inc. C4+1).

More soon...

Wednesday 22nd September Overnights
BBC One [inc. HD]
06:00- Breakfast: 1.3m (31.7%)
18:00- BBC News at Six: 3.9m (22.6%)
18:30- Regional News and Weather: 5.3m (29.1%)
19:00- The One Show: 3.9m (20.0%)
19:30- Bang Goes the Theory: 3.6m (17.9%)
20:00- Waterloo Road: 4.2m (17.7%)
21:00- Lost Land of the Tiger: 3.6m (15.1%)
22:00- BBC News at Ten: 4.46m (22.4%)
22:35- The National Lottery Draws: 3.3m (19.9%)
22:45- The Science of the Young Ones: 1.4m (12.4%)
23:00- The League Cup Show: 1.0m (15.6%)

BBC Two
18:00- Eggheads: 1.7m (10.1%)
18:30- Climbing Great Buildings: 0.9m (4.9%)
19:00- Snooker: World Open: 1.0m (5.1%)
20:00- Battle of Britain: The Real Story: 2.34m (9.9%)
21:00- Britain's Youngest Boarders: 1.81m (7.6%)
22:00- Grumpy Old Women: 1.54m (7.9%)
22:30- Newsnight: 0.9m (6.8%)

ITV1 [inc. HD]
06:00- Daybreak: 0.8m (20.5%)
08:30- Lorraine: 1.0m (19.8%)
18:30- ITV News & Weather: 3.5m (19.2%)
19:00- Emmerdale: 6.6m (33.6%)
19:30- The Unforgettable Terry Scott: 4.5m (22.1%)
20:00- Midsomer Murders: 4.98m (20.9%)
22:00- ITV News at Ten & Weather: 2.3m (11.8%)

C4 [inc. +1]
18:00- The Simpsons: 2.0m (9.7%)
18:30- Hollyoaks: 1.5m (6.8%)
19:00- Channel 4 News: 0.8m (3.8%)
20:00- Food: 1.8m (6.7%)
21:00- Grand Designs: 3.2m (11.8%)
22:00- Seven Days: 1.1m (5.9%)
* started with 1.53m (7.5%) but dropped to 700,000 (5.2%) by the end

Five
17:00- Five News: 0.7m (5.8%)
17:30- Neighbours: 1.2m (8.4%)
18:00- Home and Away: 0.8m (4.4%)
18:25- Live From Studio Five: 0.2m (1.4%)
19:00- Five News at 7: 0.2m (0.9%)
19:30- Michaela's Zoo Babies: 0.6m (3.1%)
20:00- Cowboy Builders: 1.42m (5.9%)
21:00- NCIS: 0.9m (3.8%)
22:00- Law & Order: Criminal Intent: 1.06m (6%)

BBC4
21:00- Michael Wood’s Story of England: 438,100 (1.8%)

ITV2
20:00- Gossip Girl: 158,400 (0.7%)
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First and foremost, an absolutely terrible start for Seven Days. They were promoting it quite a lot before yesterday so for it to start with only 1.1m must be a massive disappointment for C4. And with the absolute panning it's got, its figures could become very embarrassing over the next few weeks.

Both Midsomer Murders and Grand Designs not performing as well as we've seen in the past. The problem with Midsomer Murders is that it's so on and off in terms of scheduling, that it's bound to catch some people out, especially episodes which aren't really advertised (like yesterday's). It seems to me that advertised episodes these days get about 5.5m while the unadvertised ones get ~5m. Not a disaster by any means (especially since the repeats get an extra 4m) but ITV should promote the next batch of episodes which air in October.

Waterloo Road took a little knock against MM, it seems to perform better against football matches. And quite a drop for Lost Land of the Tiger but respectable I'd day and there's a possibility for it to grow tonight.

I wonder, C4 have the option apparently of extending the run, what about making it shorter?

Dreadful rating by all accounts. There will be a certain contingent of the forum, the hard-done-by feeling BB fans, that will love this.

Pretty low night all around.

Everything on BBC1 down on last week and Midsomer seems to dent WR more than the football, which is surprising. Even more surprising that WR is still above the 4m mark considering imo the show has become a shadow of its former self. Still waiting for things to improve this series. Also a huge drop off for Lost Land-haven't seen a drop off like that on BBC1 in a long time. Obviously benefited from weak competition on Tuesday.

BIt better night for BBC2 and Youngest Borders did surprisingly OK.

Very low for Midsomer, but I don't recall that episode being advertised much. The Unforgettable continues to perform very well in its new slot.

Strong start for Cowboy Builders, but not sure why NCIS repeats are down-they're never normally sub 1m.

Awful for Seven Days considering the lead in and I reckon GD will start to struggle when The Apprentice returns. CH4 continue to look for new hits..

Blimey what happened to the "resurgent" Studio Five?

No sign of Daybreak improving then

ITV's recommissioned Comedy Rocks:

New gameshow on Channel 5:

Thanks for that - what I think they call on Twitter a "Re-Tweet." Same time tomorrow?

Good work on not mentioning that Breakfast was down and Daybreak stable. Let's not be bogged down by facts in this rather one-sided breakfast TV war we are witness to...

So that's Benidorm, TV Burp and Comedy Rocks. It comes nowhere close to rivalling their contributions in drama, reality and lifestyle, but at least ITV haven't completely given up on making us laugh.

Breakdown for Seven Days:

22:00-22:15: 1.5m 7.5%
22:15-22:30: 1.0m 5.5%
22:30-22:45: 0.9m 5.4%
22:45-23:00: 0.7m 5.3%

Salv was right. It could certainly be sub-1m next week.