Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“looking for news in The Sun and The Star was always likely to be an uphill struggle.”
“looking for news in The Sun and The Star was always likely to be an uphill struggle.”
The Ratings Thread (Part 12)
71 of 129
Originally Posted by dan2008:
“It's not that
It's just the fact that nothing else gets the headlines other then X factor related”
“It's not that
It's just the fact that nothing else gets the headlines other then X factor related”
If anything you should be grateful to the X Factor for stopping you from reading that guff.
Originally Posted by derek500:
“Don't C4 C5 and E4's include HD too?”
“Don't C4 C5 and E4's include HD too?”
They do. They're automatically bundled into the main channel figures. I only mentioned "[including HD]" for ITV because their HD figures are usually reported separately so the "[including HD]" bit was written so it wouldn't confuse people.
Originally Posted by derek500:
“Don't C4 C5 and E4's include HD too?”
“Don't C4 C5 and E4's include HD too?”
Yes, but sometimes DS exclude ITV1 HD from ITV1's ratings.
Originally Posted by gottago:
“If anything you should be grateful to the X Factor for stopping you from reading that guff.”
“If anything you should be grateful to the X Factor for stopping you from reading that guff.”
The only reason i read them is for the nonsense they come up with and i never take anything i read in them seriously but now it's like 6/7 pages of one thing
Originally Posted by PJMillar:
“Some ratings news:-
Paul O'Grady Live rallied to 4m last night, which is quite an achievement against New Tricks.
Emmerdale did very well on Thursday evening, easily topping 7m for its second episode.
An Idiot Abroad was far and away the most popular multichannel programme on Thursday, with 1.15m (5.4%) for Sky1.
Celebrity Juice had 947k (5.2%), What Katie Did Next won 944k (4.1%).
4.5m (19.5%) for Law & Order: UK, pipping Traffic Cops
EastEnders beats Corrie on Thursday, as expected, Corrie pips 'Enders on Friday.
All the DS reports coming sometime today.”
“Some ratings news:-
Paul O'Grady Live rallied to 4m last night, which is quite an achievement against New Tricks.
Emmerdale did very well on Thursday evening, easily topping 7m for its second episode.
An Idiot Abroad was far and away the most popular multichannel programme on Thursday, with 1.15m (5.4%) for Sky1.
Celebrity Juice had 947k (5.2%), What Katie Did Next won 944k (4.1%).
4.5m (19.5%) for Law & Order: UK, pipping Traffic Cops
EastEnders beats Corrie on Thursday, as expected, Corrie pips 'Enders on Friday.
All the DS reports coming sometime today.”
Great rating, haven't seen this week's episode yet.
The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.
Originally Posted by Pizzatheaction:
“I think the Fri 9pm slot has become so much of a problem for ITV1 in the last two or three years that our first instinct now is to judge a show a success because it's rated better than something like Dining Stars, rather than comparing the ratings with what's on BBC One at the same time.
I think ITV have fallen into that mindset too. A few years ago, they were probably looking for the next hit show for that slot, but now they're commissioning for that slot, solely with damage limitation in mind. They are not looking for the next hit. They're looking for the next 3.5m offering.”
“I think the Fri 9pm slot has become so much of a problem for ITV1 in the last two or three years that our first instinct now is to judge a show a success because it's rated better than something like Dining Stars, rather than comparing the ratings with what's on BBC One at the same time.
I think ITV have fallen into that mindset too. A few years ago, they were probably looking for the next hit show for that slot, but now they're commissioning for that slot, solely with damage limitation in mind. They are not looking for the next hit. They're looking for the next 3.5m offering.”
Excellent post Pizza. A lot of fair and well thought out points.
Originally Posted by rzt:
“But I think with their shift in programming in the last two years from drama to light/factual entertainment, they've come to the conclusion that these shows won't rate as well as how their axed dramas used to do but will generate them more profit. Hence why shows like Wire in the Blood and Heartbeat were axed. If it was simply a ratings game, both of those shows would have not been axed. But 3.5-4.0m for a £200k/hr show like PoG is better for their business than 5.0m for a £750k/hr show like Heartbeat or WITB. That sort of thing doesn't matter to the BBC but does affect decisions made at commercial broadcasters.”
“But I think with their shift in programming in the last two years from drama to light/factual entertainment, they've come to the conclusion that these shows won't rate as well as how their axed dramas used to do but will generate them more profit. Hence why shows like Wire in the Blood and Heartbeat were axed. If it was simply a ratings game, both of those shows would have not been axed. But 3.5-4.0m for a £200k/hr show like PoG is better for their business than 5.0m for a £750k/hr show like Heartbeat or WITB. That sort of thing doesn't matter to the BBC but does affect decisions made at commercial broadcasters.”
Firstly, I will say that I think PoG's ratings are decent for that type of show even though the demogrpahics are probably quite bad. Secondly, your point about dramas costing far more that light enteratinment is perfectly vaild, although I doubt Heartbeat or other dramas would cost that much per hour if spread over 10+ episodes a year. The problem is that from a purely commerical and profit making standpoint is that cutting drama to make more cheaper factual or entertainment makes sense. But, ITV are just going for the short-term plus rather than the long-term gains and ignoring any intangible benefits. Making more dramas are going to improve ITV's reputation for more quality programming, recoup higher costs through international sales, the chance for the shows to be long-running returnable series and also the more people watching these dramas will mean more people watching the adverts for other ITV shows which makes an add-on effect.
I think ITV's mindset now to make less drama is partly down to the economy but a lot is to do with them losing their bottle after a lot of flops in 2008.
Quote:
“Playing Devil's Advocate though, ITV1's 9pm weeknight slot average has actually increased in the last 2-3 years while other channels such as BBC1's have dropped. So they must been doing something right especially when you consider their budget has decreased in that period of time.”
“Playing Devil's Advocate though, ITV1's 9pm weeknight slot average has actually increased in the last 2-3 years while other channels such as BBC1's have dropped. So they must been doing something right especially when you consider their budget has decreased in that period of time.”
What nights have improved though? Monday seems to be the say the same, Tuesdays down a lot, Wednesdays a bit higher maybe, Thursday the same, Fridays down a lot, Saturday up and Sunday about the same.
Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.”
“The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.”
The Apprentice doesnt really need "tabloid buzz" like X Factor anyway. It can cope with the BBC family promoting here and there and there seems to be plenty of news from DS about it anyway.
Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.”
“The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.”
It shouldn't be too bad because the BBC will still have their radio stations, Breakfast etc, to promote it.
I think what might hurt The Apprentice more, though, is the programmes it is clashing with. Looking at the upcoming schedules, the competition for the next 3 weeks is okay. But then mid-series it'll have to face an England friendly, Man Utd v Rangers match, Pride of Britain, I'm a Celebrity, another Champions League match five weeks in a row. Although I think it'll grow, that is pretty difficult competition and it may not hit the heights of last year. If it does hit the same heights as last year, that would be a brilliant achievement.
Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.”
“The wall to wall coverage of The X Factor in the red tops is going to make it difficult for the PR shills for the other shows to get their stories in. I think this may hurt The Apprentice this year as normally it has a clear run for PR planted press stories but this time around there wont be the same tabloid buzz for it.”
The Apprentice will easily generate buzz from more credible sources like the radio. Moyles did a good 20 minutes on it the other morning and the whole team were really talking it up.
Im intrigued to know what Neighbours got for its 7pm edition on Channel Fiver? if hollyoaks first look got 294k at 7pm
Originally Posted by rzt:
“Well no - most shows in that list had more than Dining Stars and got axed. Of course, Dining Stars isn't used as some kind of barrier to decide whether a programme is a hit or not! It's also not really fair to compare a new entertainment show to an established drama like New Tricks and expect the two shows to get the same kind of ratings. It's pretty obvious that established drama series (which is taking that slot for BBC1) will beat the new entertainment shows for ITV1.”
“Well no - most shows in that list had more than Dining Stars and got axed. Of course, Dining Stars isn't used as some kind of barrier to decide whether a programme is a hit or not! It's also not really fair to compare a new entertainment show to an established drama like New Tricks and expect the two shows to get the same kind of ratings. It's pretty obvious that established drama series (which is taking that slot for BBC1) will beat the new entertainment shows for ITV1.”
I'm certain ITV created the shows with that mindset, but established BBC hits didn't prevent I'm a Celeb becoming an instant hit. It only took a few nights before Britain's Got Talent found its feet.
Quote:
“The gap we're seeing between BBC1 and ITV1 at Fridays 9pm has only become this big this year. Last year the 9pm slot averages for BBC1 and ITV1 on Fridays was: 4.5m and 4.3m which is very close. In 2008, it was 4.4m and 4.2m, close once again. But inevitably, with BBC1 shifting established dramas to Fridays this year and ITV cutting down on dramas and focussing on new entertainment shows in that slot, a bigger gap would form.”
“The gap we're seeing between BBC1 and ITV1 at Fridays 9pm has only become this big this year. Last year the 9pm slot averages for BBC1 and ITV1 on Fridays was: 4.5m and 4.3m which is very close. In 2008, it was 4.4m and 4.2m, close once again. But inevitably, with BBC1 shifting established dramas to Fridays this year and ITV cutting down on dramas and focussing on new entertainment shows in that slot, a bigger gap would form.”
The 2008 and 2009 figures don't surprise me because BBC One had a fair few turkeys in those years, too. Would I Lie to You underperformed in the 9pm hour on Fridays, as did repeats of The Two Ronnies Sketchbook. And, there was the awful series about families living on an island, not to mention the low rating Armstrong and Miller repeats. Those intermittent periods of BBC One not making an effort have disguised a wider problem for ITV1.
Quote:
“A few years ago, though, there was a drama in most 9pm slot so expectations would've naturally been higher because drama is more expensive (significantly more) and they usually tend to rate better than other types or programming on weeknights.
But I think with their shift in programming in the last two years from drama to light/factual entertainment, they've come to the conclusion that these shows won't rate as well as how their axed dramas used to do but will generate them more profit. Hence why shows like Wire in the Blood and Heartbeat were axed. If it was simply a ratings game, both of those shows would have not been axed. But 3.5-4.0m for a £200k/hr show like PoG is better for their business than 5.0m for a £750k/hr show like Heartbeat or WITB. That sort of thing doesn't matter to the BBC but does affect decisions made at commercial broadcasters.”
“A few years ago, though, there was a drama in most 9pm slot so expectations would've naturally been higher because drama is more expensive (significantly more) and they usually tend to rate better than other types or programming on weeknights.
But I think with their shift in programming in the last two years from drama to light/factual entertainment, they've come to the conclusion that these shows won't rate as well as how their axed dramas used to do but will generate them more profit. Hence why shows like Wire in the Blood and Heartbeat were axed. If it was simply a ratings game, both of those shows would have not been axed. But 3.5-4.0m for a £200k/hr show like PoG is better for their business than 5.0m for a £750k/hr show like Heartbeat or WITB. That sort of thing doesn't matter to the BBC but does affect decisions made at commercial broadcasters.”
Yes, I know all that. But, with the lower budget 9pm entertainment offerings, it's almost as though ITV have gone into the commissioning process believing lower budgets have to equate to lower ratings. They haven't gone in aiming high. They've gone in looking for 3 or 4m tops. It's a defeatist atitude.
Quote:
“But that's because nearly all year round, dramas air in that Monday slot so of course 4m would be seen as a disappointment. In most of the other slots, it's either factual programming or light entertainment shows in which the level for success is lower than a drama due to being cheaper to make.”
“But that's because nearly all year round, dramas air in that Monday slot so of course 4m would be seen as a disappointment. In most of the other slots, it's either factual programming or light entertainment shows in which the level for success is lower than a drama due to being cheaper to make.”
That's the same thing again: "We're making it on the cheap, so let's just concentrate on doing enough to break even, rather than making the show better, still within the confines of the budget, and potentially making a good profit as a consequence."
Quote:
“What sort of ambitious non-drama shows would you like ITV1 to air there? I mean, they tried something different with Moving Wallpaper and Echo Beach and look how that went. I'm sure before they launched it, they were aiming for high ratings because they had done a billboard advertising campaign for that. They had a drama last year, Boy Meets Girl, which isn't your typical 'ITV drama' and look how that flopped. Anything they air which is slightly 'quirky' flops (BMG, May Contain Nuts, Pushing Daisies etc).”
“What sort of ambitious non-drama shows would you like ITV1 to air there? I mean, they tried something different with Moving Wallpaper and Echo Beach and look how that went. I'm sure before they launched it, they were aiming for high ratings because they had done a billboard advertising campaign for that. They had a drama last year, Boy Meets Girl, which isn't your typical 'ITV drama' and look how that flopped. Anything they air which is slightly 'quirky' flops (BMG, May Contain Nuts, Pushing Daisies etc).”
The channel that brought us massive entertainment hits such as I'm a Celeb, The X Factor, Talent, TV Burp and Millionaire etc can surely, even on a budget, come up with better entertainment than Dining Stars, Comedy Rocks, and, dare I say it on the Ratings Thread, even, Paul O'Grady?
Quote:
“Yes, they've aired their fair share of rubbish programming which was clearly going to flop (Dining Stars etc). But at the end of the day, it's pretty hard to launch new shows (especially non-scripted programmes) to 5m these days. BBC1 has that problem too. Apart from So You Think You Can Dance and Lets Dance (the latter which benefits from the Sport Relief link), what new entertainment shows which have launched since 2007 have averaged 5m+?”
“Yes, they've aired their fair share of rubbish programming which was clearly going to flop (Dining Stars etc). But at the end of the day, it's pretty hard to launch new shows (especially non-scripted programmes) to 5m these days. BBC1 has that problem too. Apart from So You Think You Can Dance and Lets Dance (the latter which benefits from the Sport Relief link), what new entertainment shows which have launched since 2007 have averaged 5m+?”
Well, BBC One has a proud, decades-long tradition of struggling to find entertainment hits, so BBC One's recent record in in that genre is par for the course.
It's ITV1 where there's been an increase in entertainment flops in recent years.
Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“When the popularity of The X Factor stars to wane, ITV will commission an alternative show to fill Saturday & Sunday nights. Its happened before & it will happen again.”
“When the popularity of The X Factor stars to wane, ITV will commission an alternative show to fill Saturday & Sunday nights. Its happened before & it will happen again.”
Takes time though - only have to flash back 7-8 years when all the talk was about the death of Saturday night TV. Was a good 5-6 years in the wilderness between the peak of Generation Game/House Party/Gladiators/Blind Date and the launch of Strictly/X Factor.
Originally Posted by RobbieSykes123:
“But as if she's going to be ejected. Cowell and the red-tops who slavishly hang on his every word have made the "outrage" over an illegal immigrant not being voted through headline news every day this week to hype up the start of the live shows.
Does anyone in their right mind not recognise she'll be brought back in to great drama and fanfare at about 10pm tonight, all part of the "twist", and given her chance to sing, sending the TXFistas on this thread and elsewhere into orgasm at how fantastic the whole thing is?”
“But as if she's going to be ejected. Cowell and the red-tops who slavishly hang on his every word have made the "outrage" over an illegal immigrant not being voted through headline news every day this week to hype up the start of the live shows.
Does anyone in their right mind not recognise she'll be brought back in to great drama and fanfare at about 10pm tonight, all part of the "twist", and given her chance to sing, sending the TXFistas on this thread and elsewhere into orgasm at how fantastic the whole thing is?”
Read the stories closer and you'll know Gamu isn't the intended wildcard. Indeed possible she was, but the visa issue cropped up first and prevented her.
Originally Posted by Georged123:
“I dont hold out much hope for Channel 4 now. Its ratings have been shocking for weeks, it has no CBB in January to give it a post Christmas push, no BB to hold-up the entire summer and worst of all Jay Hunt is on her way over there.
”
“I dont hold out much hope for Channel 4 now. Its ratings have been shocking for weeks, it has no CBB in January to give it a post Christmas push, no BB to hold-up the entire summer and worst of all Jay Hunt is on her way over there.
”
That's what people want though isn't it - quality documentaries nobody watches!
Really though it only takes a couple of breakout hits - but they need them sooner rather than later, while they need to schedule what they've got in slots where viewers are available, not a high quality all-star historical drama up against The X Factor and, possibly more damaging considering the nature of it, Casualty.
Originally Posted by Jaycee Dove:
“Hollyoaks is still rather low, even though the show is vastly improved under the new boss.
Seems it will be a hard fight to win those viewers back who nodded off during the boring months.”
“Hollyoaks is still rather low, even though the show is vastly improved under the new boss.
Seems it will be a hard fight to win those viewers back who nodded off during the boring months.”
Defo improved, but the relaunch promo campaign vanished without a trace within a couple of weeks. They then put a lot of effort into promoting the online spin-off for a couple of weeks, and then nothing.
Will be interesting to see if Hollyoaks Later can boost it considering it has done rather well for E4 the last couple of years, but removing the first look episodes for the week won't help - while the Costello brothers are said to be the feature storyline - yet since they've arrived they've only appeared in a handful of episodes between them, so viewers won't particularly care.
At least though looking at the preliminary schedules E4 is airing Later at 9pm and C4 Million Pound Drop at 10pm - so they seem to have the sense to keep them apart. The main Hollyoaks will air at 8.30pm on E4 that week, with the Friday first look at 10pm after Later.
Brekkie, do you know whether the drop of E4 episodes for a week add to the ratings for Channel Fiver at 7pm for Neighbours 6000th Anniversary of 'Who Pushed Paul Robinson?' ? or is that something to wait for and find out?
Originally Posted by Pizzatheaction:
“I'm certain ITV created the shows with that mindset, but established BBC hits didn't prevent I'm a Celeb becoming an instant hit.”
“I'm certain ITV created the shows with that mindset, but established BBC hits didn't prevent I'm a Celeb becoming an instant hit.”
But don't forget it was possible in 2002 (when I'm a Celebrity launched) to have two shows do really well with 6/7m each and clash with each other, that really isn't possible now.
It's opposition, out of interest for the first few shows were:
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (SUN 2000) 6.71
GROUND FORCE IN NEW YORK (SUN 1959) 7.67
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (MON 2100) 6.89
MERSEY BEAT (MON 2100) 5.93
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (TUE 2101) 6.14
MATCH OF THE DAY LIVE (TUE 1959) 6.85
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (WED 2103) 6.46
CHILD OF OUR TIME (WED 2100) 4.97
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (THU 2101) 7.01
CRIMEWATCH UK (THU 2104) 5.53
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (FRI 2100) 7.23
n/a - failed to make 4.45m!
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (SAT 2100) 6.70
THE MASK OF ZORRO (SAT 2018) 5.87
I'M A CELEBRITY - GET ME OUT OF HERE! (SUN 2103) 7.27
SPARKHOUSE (SUN 2059) 4.81
One or two programmes I don't recognise in there, but I'm sure others will!
Link: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/10/08...d-season/67323
That could be both good and bad for the show. The bad thing being that delayed shows normally don't perform well in the ratings and gets quickly axed. If they delay it until way later in March, the show is doomed (ie. Happy Town, Romantically Challenged from last season).
The good thing is that because ABC's new fall shows have been disappointing in viewing and demo numbers, it can give ABC a breather before they can potentially redeem themselves for 2011 midseason. Having said that, they should have scheduled The Whole Truth on Fridays at 9pm and let Body of Proof have the Wednesday 10pm slot. The Defenders on CBS isn't doing any great (in 18-49 demo). LOLA on NBC is doing average. Alternatively, I would have bet it on Tuesday 10pm after DWTS results show. The competition between BoP and The Good Wife on CBS would have been very close, both total viewers and demo.
That could be both good and bad for the show. The bad thing being that delayed shows normally don't perform well in the ratings and gets quickly axed. If they delay it until way later in March, the show is doomed (ie. Happy Town, Romantically Challenged from last season).
The good thing is that because ABC's new fall shows have been disappointing in viewing and demo numbers, it can give ABC a breather before they can potentially redeem themselves for 2011 midseason. Having said that, they should have scheduled The Whole Truth on Fridays at 9pm and let Body of Proof have the Wednesday 10pm slot. The Defenders on CBS isn't doing any great (in 18-49 demo). LOLA on NBC is doing average. Alternatively, I would have bet it on Tuesday 10pm after DWTS results show. The competition between BoP and The Good Wife on CBS would have been very close, both total viewers and demo.
Originally Posted by Georged123:
“The Apprentice doesnt really need "tabloid buzz" like X Factor anyway. It can cope with the BBC family promoting here and there and there seems to be plenty of news from DS about it anyway.”
“The Apprentice doesnt really need "tabloid buzz" like X Factor anyway. It can cope with the BBC family promoting here and there and there seems to be plenty of news from DS about it anyway.”
It wont do huge numbers without tabloid buzz. It'll still do ok but it ain't going to break records. Breakfast, daytime tv and radio take their leads from the press so the same buzz cant be generated if you take the papers out of the loop. Its breaks up the lowest level of the food chain!
Originally Posted by ToadieTheLawman:
“Brekkie, do you know whether the drop of E4 episodes for a week add to the ratings for Channel Fiver at 7pm for Neighbours 6000th Anniversary of 'Who Pushed Paul Robinson?' ? or is that something to wait for and find out?”
“Brekkie, do you know whether the drop of E4 episodes for a week add to the ratings for Channel Fiver at 7pm for Neighbours 6000th Anniversary of 'Who Pushed Paul Robinson?' ? or is that something to wait for and find out?”
I doubt the two are related. Although I've caught a few episodes of Neighbours recently and it has improved greatly since I last watched it. Arguably it's better than Home and Away at the moment which is still going through a horrible patch.
Originally Posted by Georged123:
“Secondly, your point about dramas costing far more that light enteratinment is perfectly vaild, although I doubt Heartbeat or other dramas would cost that much per hour if spread over 10+ episodes a year.”
“Secondly, your point about dramas costing far more that light enteratinment is perfectly vaild, although I doubt Heartbeat or other dramas would cost that much per hour if spread over 10+ episodes a year.”
Heartbeat was costing £475,000 per hour to actually make but the studios were charging ITV £750,000, which is higher than their tarrif these days.
Quote:
“The problem is that from a purely commerical and profit making standpoint is that cutting drama to make more cheaper factual or entertainment makes sense. But, ITV are just going for the short-term plus rather than the long-term gains and ignoring any intangible benefits. Making more dramas are going to improve ITV's reputation for more quality programming, recoup higher costs through international sales, the chance for the shows to be long-running returnable series and also the more people watching these dramas will mean more people watching the adverts for other ITV shows which makes an add-on effect.
I think ITV's mindset now to make less drama is partly down to the economy but a lot is to do with them losing their bottle after a lot of flops in 2008.”
“The problem is that from a purely commerical and profit making standpoint is that cutting drama to make more cheaper factual or entertainment makes sense. But, ITV are just going for the short-term plus rather than the long-term gains and ignoring any intangible benefits. Making more dramas are going to improve ITV's reputation for more quality programming, recoup higher costs through international sales, the chance for the shows to be long-running returnable series and also the more people watching these dramas will mean more people watching the adverts for other ITV shows which makes an add-on effect.
I think ITV's mindset now to make less drama is partly down to the economy but a lot is to do with them losing their bottle after a lot of flops in 2008.”
Well yes, ideally there should be more drama. But when there's a recession and the worst advertising downturn in decades, the commercial broadcasters have to cut their budgets and therefore dramas have to go first as they're the most costly programmes. It's even harder to keep dramas when they've stupidly spent so much money on loss-making football rights (especially the FA Cup one)!
I agree there should be more quality drama and I'd imagine there may well be in the next year or two as the market's improved and they're restarted commissioning dramas on a quarterly basis now, rather than every 6 months which was happening last year and year beore. They've also increased the 2011 budget from an initial £750m to £800m so hopefully there'll be more dramas, though we should wait and see. Yeah the 2008 disaster would've partly put them off too, I agree.
Regarding the international sales bit, the production company make money from international sales, I don't think ITV makes any money unless it's an ITV Studios production.
Quote:
“What nights have improved though? Monday seems to be the say the same, Tuesdays down a lot, Wednesdays a bit higher maybe, Thursday the same, Fridays down a lot, Saturday up and Sunday about the same.”
“What nights have improved though? Monday seems to be the say the same, Tuesdays down a lot, Wednesdays a bit higher maybe, Thursday the same, Fridays down a lot, Saturday up and Sunday about the same.”
Compared to January-October 2008, Mondays and Wednesdays are well up, and even Friday are up slightly (yes even Fridays). [The 4.2m figure for Fridays which I wrote in a previous post was for the whole 12 months of 2008, they averaged 3.7m between Jan-Oct '08]. Saturdays and Sundays as a whole are also up since then.
Originally Posted by Pizzatheaction:
“I'm certain ITV created the shows with that mindset, but established BBC hits didn't prevent I'm a Celeb becoming an instant hit. It only took a few nights before Britain's Got Talent found its feet.”
“I'm certain ITV created the shows with that mindset, but established BBC hits didn't prevent I'm a Celeb becoming an instant hit. It only took a few nights before Britain's Got Talent found its feet.”
Yes, but for every I'm a Celeb or every BGT there were a number of shows which flopped. It's easy saying, "oh IAC, BGT rated well for their first series and were hits" but the facts are that for every hit there's going to be plenty of flops. And that's for TV in general, not just ITV. There will be a lot of flops on the way before ITV finds another hit (Dining Stars, Kitchen Burnout etc), just like how there were many flops before they found Millionaire or IAC or BGT.
Quote:
“Yes, I know all that. But, with the lower budget 9pm entertainment offerings, it's almost as though ITV have gone into the commissioning process believing lower budgets have to equate to lower ratings. They haven't gone in aiming high. They've gone in looking for 3 or 4m tops. It's a defeatist atitude.
That's the same thing again: "We're making it on the cheap, so let's just concentrate on doing enough to break even, rather than making the show better, still within the confines of the budget, and potentially making a good profit as a consequence."”
“Yes, I know all that. But, with the lower budget 9pm entertainment offerings, it's almost as though ITV have gone into the commissioning process believing lower budgets have to equate to lower ratings. They haven't gone in aiming high. They've gone in looking for 3 or 4m tops. It's a defeatist atitude.
That's the same thing again: "We're making it on the cheap, so let's just concentrate on doing enough to break even, rather than making the show better, still within the confines of the budget, and potentially making a good profit as a consequence."”
Lower budgets doesn't have to equal lower ratings. But if you spend less on a show, then the hit level will be less. It's not a "defeatist attitude" - that's just how it works, especially for commercial broadcasters. If a programme which gets 4m viewers is making more money for them than another programme which costs 3-4 times as much and gets 5m, why should they have to keep programme B? It might be getting good ratings but it's not particularly good for their business.
Quote:
“The channel that brought us massive entertainment hits such as I'm a Celeb, The X Factor, Talent, TV Burp and Millionaire etc can surely, even on a budget, come up with better entertainment than Dining Stars, Comedy Rocks, and, dare I say it on the Ratings Thread, even, Paul O'Grady?”
“The channel that brought us massive entertainment hits such as I'm a Celeb, The X Factor, Talent, TV Burp and Millionaire etc can surely, even on a budget, come up with better entertainment than Dining Stars, Comedy Rocks, and, dare I say it on the Ratings Thread, even, Paul O'Grady?”
Yes, they could and should come up with something better than Dining Stars! I don't think anyone would disagree with that! But 10-15 years ago there were dreadful, cheap programmes, which rated poorly too. It's not something which is new, there's always been some.
You've basically named 5 hit entertainment shows for ITV from the last 12 years. Okay there are a few more as well to that (let's say 10 altogether), but basically you've just explained how difficult it is to find a breakthrough format. 10 hit entertainment programmes in the space of 12 years... how many flops have there been? 40, maybe 50. It takes a while finding those hit shows. Commissioning stuff like Dining Stars doesn't help, of course but there's always some dreadful shows along the way before a hit is found. Paul O'Grady might not be your cup of tea but I think 4m is respectable these days against a juggernaut like New Tricks.
Originally Posted by Dancc:
“I doubt the two are related. Although I've caught a few episodes of Neighbours recently and it has improved greatly since I last watched it. Arguably it's better than Home and Away at the moment which is still going through a horrible patch.”
“I doubt the two are related. Although I've caught a few episodes of Neighbours recently and it has improved greatly since I last watched it. Arguably it's better than Home and Away at the moment which is still going through a horrible patch.”
All the 3 main teatime soaps seem to be going through a horrid patch atm imo.
Hollyoaks doesn't seem to be showing any signs of a ratings improvement, despite a lot of new characters being pumped into the show. Watched it a few times out of curiosity and it's almost unrecognisable which isn't a good thing. When Emmerdale revamped a with Gavin Blyth it kept its old characters whilst adding new families at stages IIRC. 0.8m on a Friday night on October surely has to be of great concern to CH4 and if ratings don't improve after the Bonfire stunt then there's an even bigger headache for CH4.
Neighbours being shunted in Australia isn't good for the show and there has been a noticable ratings drop in the UK aswell often struggling to get past that 1.3m mark, despite the evenings getting darker. H&A falling below the 1m mark too much in Aus & the UK aswell and the quality seems to be awful from what others have been saying/from what I've seen of it.
----
Regarding ITV's 9pm ratings this week, since the huge success of Sunday everything seems up which is a coincidence. Didn't expect DCI Banks to hold its audience-when do new ITV crime dramas ever do that???Midsomer up from its last episode. L&O made a good recovery, even though it's still below what it should be getting. And POG up is susprising, even considering the guests. Surely 0.5m extra didn't tune in for Robbie??
Emmerdale's fantastic year continues with great pacing, great storylines and believable characters. I can honestly say the only weak links atm are the Barton children getting too much screen time. Time for a recast. Also Corrie was extremely moving last night and I hope the exit of a Street legend isn't over shadowed by the 50th anniversary and I hope there's a Farewell programme on ITV for Bill Tarmey.
With regards to CH4, I can't believe how many flops keep on coming. Must be worrying for them, but they need to go in a new direction I think instead of opting for the samey factual shows which viewers are tiring of.
Another fairly strong week for FIVE with the only weak link being Thursdays, but that's expected with filler inbetween the football weeks.
One of the biggest shocks of the week for me is the fact Celebrity Juice is now more popular than Katie Price
...which is great news, but I never thought I'd see that happen.
Originally Posted by dan2008:
“Harry Hill is back tonight
There's actually something to watch on a Saturday night on ITV1”
“Harry Hill is back tonight
There's actually something to watch on a Saturday night on ITV1
”
I know the feeling
Originally Posted by Digital Sid:
“Great rating, haven't seen this week's episode yet.”
“Great rating, haven't seen this week's episode yet.”
It was very funny. Interesting to see the 'officials' as this is the first episode not on Anytime.
Any of the main channels would be proud to have this programme in their schedules.
Originally Posted by Charnham:
“I know the feeling”
“I know the feeling”
So do BBC1. Out of the blue, Tess Daly on SDC said "coming up Anne Widdicombe" when it wasn't even her next!!
She came on just before TV Burp was about to start.
71 of 129
