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The Girl in the Fireplace |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
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You cannot expect viewers to have listened to Big Finish Audios to understand how a character has changed in 30 years. You have to pick a new entry point.
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#27 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,263
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How many times do you have to be told: that's only your opinion, and others disagree.
Not in a few months they don't, and that's how long before School Reunion the last series of Sarah Jane audios was. You might be happy to dismiss that, but I am not.
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#28 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,134
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I do wonder how he (Moffat) came up with this idea. Was it aliens stalking a famous person, then pick a historical figure to base it around. Or, he liked the idea of a story based on Madame de Pompadour?
Clockwork robots using people for parts, coming through holes in space-time to get more. Notice also in its conclusion how the Doc thinks he's trapped and separated from Rose and the Tardis when the ship's time windows close. |
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#29 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shotley, Suffolk
Posts: 10,824
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Quote:
As entertaining as the audiobooks can be, they're just stories. Simple as. Tales which may or may not fit into some strange 'linear' Doctor Who timeline which somehow might exist. Tales with a beginning, middle and an end, written by talented story-tellers albeit knowing fully well that only devoted fans will ever hear their work.
The word 'canon' is used by said fans who want to reassure themselves that what they just listened to / watched had some degree of purpose other than to entertain them - like its part of some sort of gospel. Its quite sad really. However, if there must be a 'canon', the TV show must lead the way - but even that unashamedly likes to criss-cross its own continuity, and with good enough reason. Quote:
You cannot expect viewers to have listened to Big Finish Audios to understand how a character has changed in 30 years. You have to pick a new entry point.
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#30 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 726
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Quote:
They're not 'audiobooks'. An audiobook is just a book being read aloud, that is not the same thing as a full cast audio play. And I don't appreciate being called 'sad', simply because I actually care about this stuff.
You still don't have to ignore it, or change the characters motivation beyond recognition. A decent writer could make the character consistent with all previous appearances without needing to reference any of them directly. Davies chose not to because he was arrogant enough to believe his personal vision was more important than previous writers' work. |
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#31 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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I cannot help but hope that Jo's SJA appearance contradicts the Big Finish plays. Just to see the rants from this tingramretro person. That and Moffat adding some more emotion and human stories (no way this sad (yes sad) muppett could relate) to the next series would make my day.
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#32 |
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Guest
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,504
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Quote:
They're not 'audiobooks'. An audiobook is just a book being read aloud, that is not the same thing as a full cast audio play. And I don't appreciate being called 'sad', simply because I actually care about this stuff.
You still don't have to ignore it, or change the characters motivation beyond recognition. A decent writer could make the character consistent with all previous appearances without needing to reference any of them directly. Davies chose not to because he was arrogant enough to believe his personal vision was more important than previous writers' work. 'Worshipping' just guarantees animosity towards anything which dares take a different vision or opinion to that 'full-cast audio play' or person. Its like religion, only - in this instance - even more pointless. Davies isn't arrogant. He just had the vision to know that if you take an ordinary human-being, throw him or her into a new life full of planets, stars, mystical wonders, aliens and galactic battles, then drop that person on Earth back into an everyday routine, it would haunt you...in a good way. I haven't heard these Sarah Jane audio plays, but is it really contradicted? Its only after she bumps into the Doc again in the school where she begins to get emotional about it, as she's suddenly got the chance to ask questions she thought she would never have the opportunity to ask. She was behaving like any human would after suddenly being confronted with her past. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: May 2010
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Quote:
I cannot help but hope that Jo's SJA appearance contradicts the Big Finish plays. Just to see the rants from this tingramretro person. That and Moffat adding some more emotion and human stories (no way this sad (yes sad) muppett could relate) to the next series would make my day.
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#34 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
I'm sure RTD won't allude to the audiobooks at all in relation to Jo Grant, and neither should he. And I hope there will indeed be much emotion from both of them as this will be their FIRST meeting in 35-plus years. Plus, I hope we do get a bit more human emotion from the next season of Who, as this was largely lacking (with notable exceptions) throughout the last series. But of course, some people will absolutely loathe that...!!
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#35 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 726
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Which makes it even sweeter
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#36 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 110
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What is to say the audioplays happen after the school reunion?
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#37 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 726
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Quote:
What is to say the audioplays happen after the school reunion?
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#38 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,692
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There is a very nice moment in TGITFP when The Doctor nonchalantly strums a harp (the often used and clichéd sound for dreaming/fantasising ) and at that second Madame Pompadour appears. Always brings a smile to my face that.
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#39 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
What is to say the audioplays happen after the school reunion?
And as Smithers says, probably best ask the expert. I am probably wrong. |
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#40 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
There is a very nice moment in TGITFP when The Doctor nonchalantly strums a harp (the often used and clichéd sound for dreaming/fantasising ) and at that second Madame Pompadour appears. Always brings a smile to my face that.
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#41 |
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Join Date: May 2010
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Because School Reunion leads straight into SJA. Which would ruin it, especially the part about him leaving K9 for her.
And as Smithers says, probably best ask the expert. I am probably wrong. |
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#42 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,077
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Quote:
I'm sure RTD won't allude to the audiobooks at all in relation to Jo Grant, and neither should he. And I hope there will indeed be much emotion from both of them as this will be their FIRST meeting in 35-plus years. Plus, I hope we do get a bit more human emotion from the next season of Who, as this was largely lacking (with notable exceptions) throughout the last series. But of course, some people will absolutely loathe that...!!
You may be right about the human emotion being lacking from series 5 thing. Something was lacking, definitely. Watching the repeats of series 2 I was struck by how immediately I got involved with the characters and in the story. Even minor characters like the maid in Tooth and Claw. Contrast with the weeping WAAF in Victory of the daleks, who just felt stuck in for no good reason. TGitF was the story that got me back into New Who, so I will always love it. This time, though, I noticed how many themes were recycled by Moff in series 5, the child growing up while the Doctor was away, the imaginary friend etc. (I'm a Moffat fan, btw, before anyone accuses me of being anti-SM) Completely off topic - Sophie Myles is now in Spooks! After being in DW and Moonlight! How lucky is that woman? |
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#43 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
Do many fans listen to the audio-wotsits or read the books? I don't (except for the radio plays) and I count myself a fan, so if any TV programme referred to events portrayed in them I wouldn't know what was going on, so it wouldn't be fair.
You may be right about the human emotion being lacking from series 5 thing. Something was lacking, definitely. Watching the repeats of series 2 I was struck by how immediately I got involved with the characters and in the story. Even minor characters like the maid in Tooth and Claw. Contrast with the weeping WAAF in Victory of the daleks, who just felt stuck in for no good reason. TGitF was the story that got me back into New Who, so I will always love it. This time, though, I noticed how many themes were recycled by Moff in series 5, the child growing up while the Doctor was away, the imaginary friend etc. (I'm a Moffat fan, btw, before anyone accuses me of being anti-SM) Completely off topic - Sophie Myles is now in Spooks! After being in DW and Moonlight! How lucky is that woman? |
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#44 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,155
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Quote:
Pretty much agree with all of that. Very nicely put for me. I often didn't care if people lived or died in series 5 but I always had before (I wept at Adric!). But I still enjoyed it.
The real question is Did you cheer when Amy got shot by Rory? |
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#45 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 726
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Quote:
Do many fans listen to the audio-wotsits or read the books? I don't (except for the radio plays) and I count myself a fan, so if any TV programme referred to events portrayed in them I wouldn't know what was going on, so it wouldn't be fair.
You may be right about the human emotion being lacking from series 5 thing. Something was lacking, definitely. Watching the repeats of series 2 I was struck by how immediately I got involved with the characters and in the story. Even minor characters like the maid in Tooth and Claw. Contrast with the weeping WAAF in Victory of the daleks, who just felt stuck in for no good reason. TGitF was the story that got me back into New Who, so I will always love it. This time, though, I noticed how many themes were recycled by Moff in series 5, the child growing up while the Doctor was away, the imaginary friend etc. (I'm a Moffat fan, btw, before anyone accuses me of being anti-SM) Completely off topic - Sophie Myles is now in Spooks! After being in DW and Moonlight! How lucky is that woman?
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#46 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,077
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Quote:
Pretty much agree with all of that. Very nicely put for me. I often didn't care if people lived or died in series 5 but I always had before (I wept at Adric!). But I still enjoyed it.
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#47 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
I was agreeing with you until you said you wept at Adric.
The real question is Did you cheer when Amy got shot by Rory? I know, I am weird but I loved Adric! Nutter! |
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#48 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
I did care when Rory died (both times). I love Rory. But the only episode that made me feel really emotionally involved was Vincent.
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#49 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shotley, Suffolk
Posts: 10,824
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Quote:
I cannot help but hope that Jo's SJA appearance contradicts the Big Finish plays. Just to see the rants from this tingramretro person. That and Moffat adding some more emotion and human stories (no way this sad (yes sad) muppett could relate) to the next series would make my day.
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#50 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 903
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Quote:
Resort to personal insults again and I'm pressing 'report'.
I won't get personal again but why not just put me on ignore? |
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