I do enjoy reading people's different views.

Thank you.

"I'm rubbish at weddings, especially my own" - the Doctor in Blink. But you're right, he may not have married on Gallifrey.

which is not canon...!

You don't need to be married to have kids, or even need to conceive them naturally. The Time Lords would need to perpetuate their species, of course-but they're an advanced alien society, assuming they'd have the same family structures, the same biological imperatives, the same thought processes as us just displays a lack of imagination, I think.

There was Madame De Pompadour. But he at least had the intention of going back, he simply failed to do so in time.

I know you have argued why we should assume that Time Lord society breed like us...well to turn that around, why should we assume that the lungbarrow way is the only way??? As for imagination...your right, the human way may not be the most imaginative way....but then a great race looking like humans isn't that imaginitive either.....

He may have been thinking of his inadvertent engagement in The Aztecs.

He can't be though, can he? A wedding isn't an engagement. He would have said, I am rubbish at engagtements.

Yeah - just a lighthearted aside. I forgot to put a smiley in. Here's one now: . But (to keep the argumentative mood flowing!) the only purpose of an engagement period is to lead in to the wedding event, so bottling during the former does by default make you a bit rubbish at the latter.

I do really think that he meant a proper wedding, though (I just thought I'd be a clever dick in front of Granny). And in my head he once did have a wife, a daughter and a granddaughter (who we saw), but I don't have a great deal of direct evidence for that loosely held belief. I am also happy for people who have a continuity from the audio plays and novels to enjoy all that stuff as well - I'm not saying they're wrong, but I mostly get continuity from the TV episodes. I don't really much mind if he never explains his true back story.

I suppose time lord society must be strange so I can understand why the lungbarrow type speculations are interesting. Maybe they do get married, but when one of them regenerates the other gets to invoke an opt out clause. It's not just physical looks - imagine waking up one morning to find a sixth Doctor type grumping about making an arse of himself. Or maybe most regenerations were non traumatic non emergency ones and there's a degree of choice and control (flicking through a catalogue like Romana - but let's not remember that.).

*father jack voice* Drink! Girls! *falls asleep*

I imagine a scene similar to a dress shop with the wife trying on various regenerations and the husband sat outside saying "yes, that's lovely, dear," in a bored voice.

I always thought it was odd Romana wasting so many regenerations if she only had 13. But perhaps they don't count unless you keep them.

As for the Doctor's family life, should we add a mother? After the woman in white in The End of Time?

And I always think you're clever, nebo

But are stories published in your head canon?


Divorce proceedings must be commonplace on Gallifrey.

"He's not the man I married your honour"...

I think mother is not unreasonable but notice that the thread has drifted so won't discuss further. But I'm starting to think about what ting said about the sterile society that we've seen on screen so far (not really changed my mind yet though. Maybe if I actually bought some DVDs and watched some Gallifrey ones again for the first time in years...)

Psychiatrists have long debated my "head story canonicity". They tell me to mostly ignore the disembodied voices, unless it definitely is the radio.

I agree with Face of Jack - poor Susan. I wonder if she suspected that one of the beliefs he was going forward with was a non-interference policy for ditched relatives.

According to which legitimate authority?

I'd never thought of that before ... but I spose you're right. Leela must have got a shock when Andred regenerated. But, as Andred spent a relatively peaceful life at home in the Capitol, he wouldn't have been using upr egenerations quickly like the Doctor or the Master, both of whom were "out on the road", so Andred's current body would probably have lasted at least as long as Leela's lifespan.

There's no evidence on screen that Andred or any of the other guards were Time Lords. The Invasion of Time and Arc of Infinity both strongly imply that they aren't, and that the Time Lords are simply the planet's elite. So it's far from certain that regeneration would be an issue when it comes to them.

As much a legitimate authority as the one that says they ARE canon. And if there are overwhelming, massive continuity problems between the audiobooks and the TV series (I wouldn't know as haven't listened to them, but many of our learned friends on here have stated this is true), then obviously the TV show takes complete precedent and the audiobooks can be dismissed as jolly and entertaining but uiltimately non-canon fodder, like the comic strips, Dimensions in Time, etc etc. QED.

There is nothing 'obvious' about it. And though I'm getting tired of repeating this: they aren't 'audiobooks'. An audiobook is a book being read aloud, an audioplay is something entirely different, it's a full cast drama recorded in studio.

You haven't answered my question though have you really! As myself and Ting have repeated MANY times, until someone like the BBC comes along and says things such as this are NOT canon they are open to other peoples personal opinions.
You are entitled to your opinion that they are not canon, but thats all it is, an opinion.

Philip Olivier - who plays the Seventh Doctor's audio companion Hex - refers to them as "audiobooks" in the latest Big Finish magazine. I think he knows what he's talking about.

Well obviously not!

an audiobook is a story that is read as a story

The ones Phillip Oliver are in are full blown audio plays

Yes, but constantly criticising people for using an incorrect description is just as bad as constantly complaining about spelling.

If the cast are willing to use the "wrong" term then the whole matter should just be dropped.

Fair point about the constantly correcting people, but I was just pointing out that it didn't automatically make Philip Oliver right because hes on the cds.

And Philip Oliver is not right-they're two different things entirely. But then, you still get actors working on the show referring to the lead character as 'Dr Who'. It doesn't mean we should.

The TV show is canon. Fact. Therefore, if there are direct contradictions between the TV show and the audiobooks, you have to take the audiobooks as non-canon. Fact. For instance, I understand Jo Grant has appeared in these stories, and would expect that the upcoming SJA story - on TV - will completely ignore this fact. SJA is undoubtedly canon, therefore, the audiobooks cannot be. maybe you and Tingramento can play little games whereby you decide that there are alternative dimensions involved etc, and convince yourself that the audiobooks can be reeasonably taken as canon. I however, cannot. And I think tingramento even questioned whether NuWho was canon at one point, the most ludicrous and preposterous statement ever said on this forum (actually, he's done a few that may challenge that status...)
So, take the audiobooks as canon and try getting your head round the fact that they jar with the TV series, get all wound up because the TV show doesn't follow what you believe to be fact as shown in the audiobooks, etc. Knock yourself out. I, and the majority of the TV viewing public, will take the TV show, and only the TV show, as canon, and be very happy enjoying it.