No, not grateful, I was simpy making a point that some posters would have done, and if I really was a spoilt brat etc, I probably would have jumped to this action. I'm also not "justifying my life", simply correcting your misconceptions.

End of the day, I don't care what people consider canon, it's been great for an argument though. However, this whole thing began because some people got annoyed because the present powers-that-be don't follow the canonicity of the audiobooks, in fact Tingramento it was who was annoyed that Sarah was so different from the audiobooks, so if he can happilly now equate the two histories so that he can still accept audiobooks as canon, he was clearly wrong to get annoyed in the first place, so I guess we can take this as an admission of his original mistake.

And I also never said it was you that implied that NuWho wasn't canon - sadly it was our mutual friend again who said this, but I didnt want to name names in my last post - as it's caused misunderstanding, then, well yes, it was our resident expert Tingramento.

None of your arguments really hold water IMO, but hey, if you're happy to think that Joanna Lumley really WAS an incarnation of the Dr, that's fine! Or do you pick and choose canonicity depending on your own particular preferences...??

But I have given valid reasons for saying this, so you are being far more arrogant to disagree with me with no attempt at saying why. Please give me 2 or 3 good reasons why they are canon, that works perfectly well within the TV show without having to magically invent some kind of history-changing extravagant occurrence that has never at any point been mentioned in the show or audiobooks, and I will hapilly bow down to your greater knowledge.

Until then...they aint canon! End of !!

If you don't care, why so much fuss?

And as for Joanna Lumley thing, wasn't that from 'the curse of fatal death' ? If that is the case, that is one of the rare occasions when the BBC have catagorically stated, it's not canon.

In your opinion......

correct, based on the facts, which still nobody can seem to dispute...

Your so called facts have all been given explanations

God! This is just like being in a hamsters wheel!

No answer to your attempt to be clever with the Joanna Lumley thing then?

Look, at this point in time I don't give a toss whether you think the bloody things are canon or not because I'm sick to death of having this pointless bloody argument with you, but in the name of all that's holy will you please stip calling the sodding things audiobooks!

No sense? I can't believe that anything concerning Doctor Who makes no sense, ting



About time

That's just a cop out clause.
And if that is the case, why the complaint that Sarah Jane isn't the same character as she is in the books?

It is like being in a hamster wheel, because now the reason why books can be considered canon is because of the Series 5 cracks.

Clutching at straws.

It really isn't a cop out clause! It's Sci-fi, its Doctor Who, anything can be explained away if you want it to!

Steven Moffatt has said that now we've had the cracks, and the universe rebooted, anything in the future that doesn't tally up with what has happened previously we can blame it on that - why don't you go and tell him that hes just come up with a cop out clause?

And I have NEVER made any such complaint of any sort about Sarah Jane???????

I'm clutching at nothing! Its just my opinion - are you telling me I'm not entitled to that?

People have different views about canon, and as no official statement has ever been made from the BBC about it, they can have their own opinions, I'm not telling you what you think is wrong, I accept what you think, so be a grown up and accept other peoples thoughts!

No-they can be considered canon because nobody in a position to say so has ever said they can't. Get over it!

Ting, you said SJS wasn't the same character, then you use the cracks argument to justify your comments.

Make up your mind, you're more slippery than an eel.

So now that the cracks are the excuse of the day, are you changing your mind that RTD actually was correct in his portrayal of SJS in School Reunion?

#jumpingoncrackbandwagon

You accused ME of complaining about Sarah Jane not being the same person in books and on tv (see your post above) I think you are getting mine and Tings posts confused?

No, I said why the complaint (refering to a previous post), not why your complaint, I was just replying to your message

But the question still stands.

If you believe the audiobooks etc are canon, then surely you must have the same problem with Sarah Jane's return in the TV Series, as she denied everything that happened in the books / plays?

Or did the cracks actually wipe those audiobooks/ plays out of existence, which in effect actually means they are currently not canon?

Next time I see him, I will tell him that I think it's a cop out clause designed to get around lazy writing.

Excellent post. But I fear no amount of logic will change these people's minds. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter as long as idiots stop whingeing that current writers / showrunners are contradicting these so-called canon audiobooks. But again, I suspect they'll continue to gripe. Pathetic, really!!

Bearing in mind its sci-fi, there could be numorous explainations. I believe there were various things in the books that were undone (including the death of Sarah Jane) because some group (I believe called the council of 8) were corrupting certain timelines? But when the doctor defeated them everything they had done was unwritten and went back to the way it had been before. Thats just one example, and thats something we've actually seen referred to in the books

Other things why certain things happened in the books but not followed up on tv (and not referred to in any sort of media) could be down to numorous reasons not mentioned in any sort of media, reset buttons, the time war, memories being wiped to name but a few.

I haven't read no where near all the books, but I can't see how a reason could not be come up with for any sort of inconsistancies.

I listened to alot of the audio plays, and so far haven't come across anything that contradicts anything that we've seen on screen, but I haven't listened to all of them. I think Big Finish more than go out of their way now the series is back on air to make sure this doesn't happen.
For me, it has helped make sense of some of the things on tv - for example, I could never quite understand how Tegan was fuming at turlough and not wanting him around at the end of Enlightenment, but seemed to have forgotton all that by the beginning of the Kings Demons. But now Big Finish have put a run of plays between these two adventures where obviously Tegan has more chance to get her head round Turloughs actioned, and consequently, be over it by the Kings Demons.

The main point of all this is, I choose to accept the books and especially the plays are part on my personal canon, ultimately, you should respect that and not try to brow beat me into thinking differently. It's only my opinion, and I'm not trying to make you or anyone else change your views in the slightest, so please stop trying to get me to change mine. You can say I'm 'clutching at straws' or whatever you want, and if you think that, that's fine, just allow me to think what i want, I'm doing no one any harm, whereas what you and a few others are doing in your desperation to change the way I think is bordering on bullying.

Knew you wouldn't stay away, despite your proclamation of having much better things to do with your life

Well for some reason that post was taken off, though not sure why, but having just got in from a thoroughly pleasant night out, and seeing that my post was missing, i thought I'd pitch in again. However, I'm glad that you had a chance to read it, as it was largely for you, and of course Mr Ting

Well yes, I did see it, and I sent you an equally pleasant reply - something along the lines of how the spoilt brat was back considering the immaturity of your post

Oh I see that explains it, your reply was unpleasant so they took both off. Good work that man!!

In the olden days, people would've just gotten on with their lives. However, in modern emo-era, it's conceivable that a former companion would sit there waiting every night with a tear in their eye, possibly writing bad poetry about how sad they were.

Also unlike Amy, Rienette a/k/a Madame Pompador, is a known,historical figure, whose disappearance would alter French history, at the very least, & The Doctor given his past, would be extremely reluctant to alter it, in any way...
As for Jakes_stuff comment about Nyssa, in the BBC "Classic Who" novel Asylum, the 4th Doctor finds her, but he's the Season 14 version, not the Season 18 version, & as a result, he thinks she's a university lecturer...
(From his POV, the events of The Deadly Assassin have only just finished, & the events of Face of Evil have'nt started yet, so he's "between" companions...).
She by contrast, has effectively has to "jam her fist in her mouth", for effectively the entire novel, to stop revealing anything that might alter their future history...
(Why does this remind me so much of River Song, & her relationship with the Doctor for some reason...?)