Telling people not to buy animals from pet shops- what happens to those poor animals then?

Not all pet shops buy from farmers either. The cats that show up in my local pet shop are normally from people whose cat had kittens and they had no idea what to do with them.

Theres a shop in Kingston upon thames that sold dogs and puppies. Beautiful little things but appauling conditions. Last year this shop was featured on a prog called "rogue traders".

Someone mentioned dogs4us. They have branches in Salford and Leeds and I have visited both. They don't just sell puppies, they have large pet supply stores that sell a really good range of stuff, mainly for dogs, at fairly good prices.

I have been to the puppy sales sections of both, and have found that the puppies are kept in excellent conditions, very clean and warm, and they are fed good quality food (we were there at feeding time on saturday!)

As someone else pointed out, if everyone refused to buy puppies from these kind of places, what would happen to them?

When we got our first puppy Holly, we found an ad online. The guy said we could see both the parents and that he had papers for the parents and test results. When we arrived we knocked on the door and he took us back down the drive, round the side of his house, and opened his car boot to reveal 2 little puppies snuggled together in a crate. There was no sign of any adult dogs, papers or test results, but after a swift whispered discussion with my boyfriend, we agreed we couldn't leave empty handed.

The guy claimed that the yellow pup in the crate was reserved, and that Holly was the only one left to buy. I picked her up, my boyfriend handed over the money and we left as quickly as possible.

The man told us that they were his dad's puppies and that his dad was ill in hospital so they needed to go ASAP. This may all sound dodgy, and people may think we shouldn't have paid him, but wjat else were we to do? I still wonder now what he might have done with her if we'd walked away...drowned her? dumped her? It doesn't bear thinking about!

Yes, we have had our fair share of problems with her, but we could have had the same from a "Proper" breeder, and she's turning into a wonderful dog now.

There are occasions when buying a pedigree from a registered breeder doesn't always feel like the best thing to do.

I agree breeders should be more reasonable. And some probably are. But actually - no offence - I do think you went about it the wrong way.

You are under no obligation to tell a breeder your entire life story, it's sometimes better to be economical in what you say. I didn't realise you had emailed - I have always rung breeders, that enables you to gauge their views and respond accordingly, much like you would do in any social interaction. Most breeders love to chat about their animals, but I have never found they are keen on written correspondence.

Your list of options isn't dwindling at all, don't think that. When you're ready to get a puppy, give a couple of breeders a ring (probably not the ones you already emailed) and have a chat - and don't feel you to have to reveal every detail about your lifestyle. What they are really looking for is someone they feel will be a good 'mum/dad' to their puppy, that's all.

As for 'what happens to the animals in pet shops' - as long as people keep buying, the puppy farms keep breeding. There are thousands and thousands of animals in rescue centres - what happens to them if people buy from pet shops?

One more outlet for puppy farms is shut down, that's what happens.

The way I see it is, this issue isn't really about all pet shops, it is about the ones who sell stock from puppy farms. Breeding dogs and dogs and cats should never really be about the money, it should be about the love of the animal. Anyone who needs a license as they're breeding more than 4 or 5 litters a year are not, in my mind, doing it for the love of the breed/crossbreed, and there are many pet shops who sell animals via these 'breeders'.

If people in your local area don't know what to do with the kittens their cat has just had, then what on earth are they doing with a cat in the first place? I despair at the stupidity of people.

No you would not have had the same from a proper breeder. What you did was mind numbingly stupid and utterly irresponsible. See the last sentence of my last post.

That's not your problem is it.
You can't help every animal......or child in Africa.

What a pointless reply.

We got the cat I had when growing up from Cats Protection, they were really good, I was 11 and asked for a black and white one, sure enough 2 weeks later Shrody turned up and moved in.

We had approached the RSPCA prior to that who turned us down and would not budge. This was because we lived too near a main road. My parent's house is about 100/150 metres from the main road into our town. I was devastated as I'd wanted a cat for years.

It is a busy main road but if they turn people down for living near ish a main road you've got to wonder what they do with all the cats they have.

We had Shrody for about 6 years, she was an incredibly independant cat who hate being inside, she sat on my knee maybe 3 times in all the 6 years. Hated being petted, she just liked to either be outside or sitting by the radiator on her own. She was perfect for our family as we are all a bit independant like her.

She did go missing one day, my Dad searched for her for days but she didn't turn up.

My point is that the Cats Protection league saw that we could offer a loving family home for Shrods and were excellent.

I appreciate what you're trying to say but it really just makes me think I'm right about my first impressions. The reason I e-mailed is I didn't really want to bother people with a phone call when we're not even looking to take in a dog right now. I just wanted some answers to my questions and to explain our position. Get some early dialog going in a nice friendly little e-mail. Frankly if these people can't be more helpful to nice genuine folks who just ask a few questions then I wouldn't like to get a dog from them anyway. I really don't want to fear every second that if I slip up and tell them I might need to nip for milk and bread that they can draw an end to it all. You read online and people tell you to research the desired breed, so we have an are doing so a year in advance, we want to be prepared. Now we're told we're approaching it all wrong, can you not see why people lose their patience with it?

As for looking in rescue centres, all the dogs I've ever taken in have been rescues. This time I want a specific breed and want it from a puppy. So rescue centres aren't an option.

As for looking for a "mum" and "dad", I'd be neither (I'm sure that's the polar opposite of what those breeders want to hear, but perhaps I'm more grounded in reality). I'd be it's owner, or head of it's pack. It would be treated with love and respect like the rest of my pack are (that includes my other half ) Good hearty meals, long walks along the river, cuddles on the evenings etc... But if someone's looking for me to walk into the room and go gaga and beg them for their puppies, it just won't happen. It's not me.

In contrast I could walk into Dogs4Us this afternoon and take home a puppy. No one will come check my garden, or want to interview me. I won't get any papers but we have no desire to show or breed so that doesn't matter. Non of the rescues I ever took in had papers and I adored them all regardless.

What I'm trying to get to is - surely there is a nice medium between these two scenarios. Perhaps a breeder who is a little more understanding, or open to people not like themselves taking on their dogs?

What should be fun and exciting has just turned into a bit of a nightmare to be honest. I'm trying to block it out now until we genuinely start to look, but saw this thread and couldn't help but reply.

Thats rare that pet shops do not encourage breeding and often large scale. Ive just been part of a rescue that helped 68 rabbits and 100 guinea pigs from appalling conditions. They were supplying three local pet shops.

hazy-days, I understand what you are saying. We too wanted a specific breed and were very open with the breeders we contacted. We did not think we would have any problems as we had experience with the breed and I am self employed and work from home so would be with the dog all day.

However we were perhaps naive and not prepared for the attitude of some of the breeders we had contact with. Eventually we did find a lovely breeder and now have a wonderful dog but I can understand how some people decide to purchase a dog from a shop. I was adamant at the beginning of our search that I would not fund puppy farms but even I began to wonder if that was a wise decision.

us too with Ella. same reasons as you. Would love to know where you got Amber as we live close. Would be funny if they were from the same shop! Pm me!

I would have loved a resue but was turned down as we were working and at that point wanted a indoor cat!

Look people, if you're buying puppies and kittens (but puppies more so) from pet shops then in my mind you've got no business having one because you're supporting the puppy farming trade. It demonstrates that you're damn clueless and your reasons for wanting and getting a puppy need some serious review.

I totaly agree with everything you said.

Agreed. It may be easier to buy from a pet shop but after viewing the details in the anti-puppy-farming sites given above, can you feel comfortable about it?

In reply to hazy days - I have dealt with several breeders and none of them wanted me to go gaga and beg them for their animals - I am sure you realise that I was not using 'mum/dad' in that way. My point is that if you approach breeders in a different way, you will get a different result. In all walks of life you have to work out how to handle people and situations in order to get the result you want, and this is no different. If you prefer to buy a puppy-farmed pup from a pet shop that is entirely up to you - BUT there are other options if you want to pursue them.

OAS, I realise some rescue centres can be a royal PITA and shoot themselves in the foot with their petty requirements - but if you get a knockback from one, don't assume they are all the same. Almost all vets deal with local shelters and should be able to give you details of a few places to contact.

Hazydays I may be wrong but maybe they were concerned that you were being economical with the truth (I'm not sayign you were) and if you admitted to being out ~3 hours a day, in reality you were actually out 8 hours?

I may be entirely wrong but remember they will also be influenced by past events and maybe other people had lied to them about how long they were out before, so they are hypercautious now?

Lippincote has a very good point. In a conversation you listen not only to what people are saying, but how they are saying it and what they are not saying and you adjust your responses and questions accordingly.

You don't say what breed you were considering but some are very high energy, or need a lot more company and mental stimulation than others and so are less suited to spending too much time alone that others. Maybe this was part of it?

It is also true though that some rescues are too dogmatic about their homing requirements and too disinclined to judge everyone's situation on its own merits.

A local petshop near us sells very expensive pedigree puppies, which notoriously then spend a lot of time at the local vet, costing their owners more money and heartbreak.

Where possible a good breeder, who maintains interest in their offspring and who is always ready to give lifelong advice, is the best way to go imo.

Unfortunately rescues can come with considerable problems, either caused by being passed from pillar to post, or because those problems were the reason they ended up in rescue, and people lie, particularly about aggression
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But bad breeders and bad pet shops are probably the worse (and ultimately most emotionally and financially expensive) places to get a puppy

What a load of self righteous clap trap what are people who want a puppy or kitten supposed to do if a rescue centre turns them away and breeders give you the 3rd degree before even contemplating putting you on a waiting list when we got our first dog we were turned away because I work full time and my husband is self employed and the hours he works are erratic. We now have two dogs if my husband has to work out of the house for more than a couple of hours they are both walked before he goes out and we have a friend that comes round to take them out for a walk during the day and then they get another walk when we get home

That part of your post has already been answered in this thread. If you got your dogs from a pet shop such as the ones mentioned in this thread then I think the same of you. It's my opinion on the matter but I can't pretend to be sorry if that offends you.

our first dog we didn't get from a pet shop we got from a friend or as some people would call them a backyard breeder - our 2nd dog we did get from a pet shop after spending 6 months trying to find a breeder that would put us on their waiting list - the pet shop concerned gives you details of the breeders that they take dogs from so that you can contact them with any questions

Well I would never ever buy from a pet shop because if I thought I was in anyway helping to keep a puppy farm going I'd slap I myself silly.
Right now I have sitting on my feet A dog we just rescued, literally yesterday. Amos is 6 and for those 6 years he has spent shut in a tiny shed in his own mess, which caused him to have massive sores between each toe. Ears so badly infected that they are now full of polyps. No muscle tone and very thin still, even though he has been in a wonderful foster home for 5 weeks prior to me homing him. He wasn't wormed and hardly had any food. He will eat paper if we don't watch him, as at one time its all he would have had to eat to take away the hunger pains He has no front teeth and the rest of them are broken, worn, and badly caked in tartar. He had pressure sores on his legs and a lump that they though was cancerous, luckily when they operated to remove it, it came back benign. He has never had a name and the rips and holes in his ears are evidence to the cattle tags that were there with his number.
He undoubtedly has been beaten and cowed. And all this is possible because puppy farms have places to sell their puppies. No reputable breeder would give their puppies to a pet shop to sell. So its kinda safe to assume any puppy that you see in a pet shop has come from a farm.
I have owned dogs my whole life some were brought from breeders, some were bred by myself, some were given to us, and some were rescued. All ways of obtaining a dog require different criteria. The rescues are so strict mainly because these dogs have special needs, but also because already being abandoned is so very traumatic that the rescues have to match the right owner to dog. As with Amos the most important thing for him was someone at home most of the day and other dogs to learn from. If a dog requires that and you can't give it then the rescues are right to refuse you. Doesn't make you unsuitable for a different dog The most remarkable thing about these special dogs even after all they have been through is they are so loving, so gentle, and just so grateful to have you :
Please please please think about it before you buy a puppy from a pet shop.
Remember that not only do these poor little puppies have numerous problems from bad breeding, but left behind in these atrocious places are their parents suffering in the most unimaginable way.

I can't bear to click the link above as I can't understand why anybody can keep lovely dogs in dreadful conditions and not let them lead a happy life with a nice family to love them, feed and walk them.

I do wish anything that resembles a 'puppy farm' would be closed down and never be allowed to operate anywhere in the UK. Why is it allowed to go on? Why don't the RSPCA do something to stop this cruelty?

Sorry to bring this back up, but I've not had the net for a few weeks and felt I needed to reply.

Firstly I would like to point out that the problems we've had with Holly were not health based, and would not have shown up on any tests or papers.

Secondly, we have spoken to a couple in our new neighbourhood who have a yellow lab puppy who is behaving in the exact same ways Holly did; Biting, slow at house training, extremely nervous, etc. Their puppy came from a reputable breeder, they have papers and health test scores, and can trace his family tree back for donkeys years.

I also know people who have bought dogs from "dodgy" places and had no trouble whatsoever with them.

Call me stupid if you like, but I don't regret the way Holly joined our family. She is happy and healthy, and has brought so much to our home...I wouldn't be without her now.

Naturally you wouldn't be without her now. You're bound to form an attachment but that doesn't detract from the highly irresposible way you came by her. I hope you never contemplate doing such a thing again.

As for your neighbour's dog, I couldn't comment. It is certainly unusual to have some of the problems you describe such as nervousness. That sounds to me more like the owners don't really know what they're doing. Biting is completely normal to an extent but can also be a sign that the pup was removed from its family too soon - before 8 weeks. How old was Holly when you got her?

She was 8 weeks according to the guy we got her from. Obviously we couldn't prove this, but when she went for her first vaccinations the vet told us her weight was about right for the age we'd been told she was.

Our second puppy came to us at 8 weeks having been removed from her mother at a very early age as the idiots who owned her mother didn't want the hassle of puppies, yet couldn't be bothered to get the mother dog spayed. She was dumped at a local rescue along with her 2 brothers and they were hand reared until they could be weaned, then she came to us a foster puppy. We were then asked if we wanted to keep her ourselves as she had settled really well and got along very well with Holly. She's a completely different kettle of fish; very laid back, playful and affectionate. The only problem we've had with her so far has been a bladder infection that has caused a delay in house training, as it was too difficult to tell when she actually wanted to pee.

I would also honestly say that if went to visit another puppy in the same circumstances I would do the exact same thing all over again. I just could not bear to leave a defenceless puppy to be possible dumped or drowned, or whatever, just because they were an inconvenience to somebody else. Sorry.