...get really sad/angry talking about the Time Lords being destroyed etc a bit more often, like the last two did? There didn't seem to be much about that in S5.
I certainly hope they don't drop it entirely.

I definitely think that the Doctor should display a bit more angst and anguish in a similar way to CE and DT.

Hopefully it will be reintroduced in series 6

Maybe. But I think after 2 regenerations and goodness knows how many years since fighting in the Time War maybe he's come to terms with it all. Yes his loss will always affect him but he 11 seemed a lot more upbeat and happier from Day 1. Is it any coincidence that his mood got better after he regenerated after talking for so long about how he didn't want to change?

I'm glad they didn't do it this year - I felt it was tied too heavily to the RTD era. I think the "last of the timelords" was referenced way too much in the RTD era and would happily never see it brought up again. Not because I dislike the story behind it, just it was intricate to RTD's final stories and I felt that that closed off his reign nicely. The way The Beast Below dealt with it - like he didn't want to think about it, as though it was opening up a mental wound was still quite effective, without getting too angsty about it.

I can see how others would want it to be referenced more though - I just feel it isnt really needed at this point in the show

No i think it's time to move on from that, it started to drag the series down too much by the end of Ten's reign. Eleven has regained his love of life again, and while he did make a couple of subtle references to these events in series 5 it's better that it was left in the background.

I found that quite...er...nice. In that case it might better if (without being too angsty about it) there's more stuff where the enemies keep reminding him of it on purpose.

I think it'd be better a bit less in the background, but I agree it got annoying at the end, they went the other way and had it every five minutes!
However judging by the rumours I have a suspicion that there's going to be some new reason for him to be like that.

why should he try and be similar to them though? Surely the whole point is for MS to be his own Doctor, not CE or DT?

Thanks lol. I see no reason why it can't be mentioned now and again, as long as it doesn't go overboard and get too bogged down by it. I definately agree with what Muttley said, Eleven and the SM era seem to have a lighter, more adventurous feel to it

Tbh, the Doctor is never the last of the timelords - there's always a sneaky one hiding in the shadows

Yeah. It's been five years since the concept of the Doctor being the last Time Lord was introduced, and we're used to
it now.

I felt that The End of Time was the Doctor's way of dealing with it. He felt guilty about trapping the Time Lords in a time bubble, something which carried with him in CE's and DT's Doctors. With them being brought back and seeing the destruction that he ultimately knew they would, was validating his decision to trap them.

So whilst now he still brings him sadness, which he doesn't want to talk about anymore, he is now confidence that he originally made the right choices.

For the love of Moff, no!

Sorry but it went on so long during RTD's era it ended up as a massive weight tied to the narrative. Just as a quick example, look at The Doctor's Daughter. That should have been a great episode with an opportunity to dive into a the relationship between the Doctor and Jenny and really set up the ending (which, in case anyone's not seen it, I won't spoil). Instead the whole 'when I look at her I see everything I've lost' thing had to be shoved in and as a result everything else got squeezed into the last half of the story. More to the point, what new story is there to tell about that loss? We've dealt with it more than once and re-visiting it would just feel like a retread for no good reason at this point, especially as we now know the Timelords went a tad nuts at the end and became just as bad as the Daleks (if not worse when you think about it). Why would we feel sorry that that civilization was gone?

Look at it another way: the Doctor has now had two lifetimes to come to terms with the loss and, frankly, would have started to move on from it. He's been around long enough to know you've got to find something else to fill that gap and, considering he's spent the last few hundred years being the Big Damn Hero for the universe at large it's not exactly tricky to figure out what that might be. Moffat's way of addressing it (bad day, bad things happened) is perfect to acknowledge the past and allow the Doctor to move on and actually enjoy himself again while still leaving the door open if necessary.

Absolutely not. Never in a month of Sundays.

I ended up actively hating the tenth Doctor because of his mopey, snivelling attitude. Move on! Have adventures, don't stomp around the place with a wobbly lip and a stammer. All that guff about Gallifrey bored the living arse off me.

It's a long-heard grumble that the old series became too obsessed with its own continuity towards the end of its run. I'd say the same about the RTD stuff. I didn't understand anything about how the Time Lords came back. The Doctor crying, weeping and feeling sorry for himself was unsympathetic and self-indulgent. I hated it.

The obsession with Gallifrey and the Time Lords weakened the character of the Doctor and tested my patience more than DW ever has done before. I actively cheered when the mopey git died. His final words "I don't want to go" ... and his shouting at poor old Bernard Cribbins. Terrible. Selfish. Awful. Arrogant. Ugh. Yukyukyuk.

Sod off, tenth Doctor. Be gone with you. And take Gallifrey with you. (except Chancellor Flavia)

I do. New life, new Doctor.

The RTD years strangled itself with its own emo porn. Thank god those days are over.

Looks like it's only us, then, Sophie *sighs*



I was being a bit tongue in cheek. But I did quite like the angst.

But surely DT's finale reinforced in him that he was right to have done what he did? In my mind, that's why he's not so emo about it. He's progressed, because their maniacal plan would have destroyed the Earth, and the Doctor shut them away again.

Why would he be angsty about it? Surely he'd feel vindicated?

Maybe maybe not. The Doctors 'angst' was a story arc over 4 series we have only had one series with Matt Smith (himself labelled emo by many) so who knows how Matt Smiths years will pan out in that regard.

I like to think regeneration healed those wounds. When he regenerates he forgets some things from his past and becomes 'young' again. I think this also because the Doctors (Especially 10) gets hurt more by death at the end of there life. Then, when they go. The Death timer ticks back to zero again and they become happy. He becomes young. He has memories of them but there almost hidden -difficult to reach- and they don't effect him as much.

I'm sure leaving Susan effected 1 but when he regenerated it still effected him but not so much. The Doctors think about what they've done personally. The effects of before still effects them but not in the same way as those current ones. No doubt Ten was shocked into change by Adelades suicide but 11 can't even remember it. He regenerated and kept some memory and lost others. Not that he forgot her he just forgets her.

Or, he doesn't remember it but when she is mentioned he remembers. Hidden.

I've gone off topic and i'm rambling.For that, I apologize.

Off topic, rambling...on an internet forum!! . We'll have less of that thank you.

Well, i dont think the 11th is emo Doctor like 10. Of course if he is ordered to do it by Moffat he will. But I think he has interpreted the role differently from Tennant - more restraint, less emotional.

The overall tone of season 5 was less emo.

Actually I found that explanation really interesting. I hadn't really thought about how the Doctor deals with 900+ years worth of memories.

Could be why he doesn't go back for old companions, as was the subject of another thread.

When 9 regenerated into 10 he became young and optimistic again, but the events of his "life" made him darker. Maybe that will happen to 11, over time?

Emo ...

In 2005 my heart sunk the moment CE said he was now the last of the time lords*. I guessed what we'd be getting.

I hope they let it stay in the background now. Even for people that liked it, the story has been told now. Though I expect they'll still have enemies taunt him about it and face situations that remind him. I like the idea of regeneration creating some distance from previous baggage (or in the case of venusian aikido old skills coming vividly back to mind!**). The Brig mentioned this in another thread in respect of companions.

Current and future doctors can still have bad things happen and be sad or regretful again. Maybe they will write a good story where he faces tough choices (that's what politicians and chief executives say these days when they mean "take your job away without really actually giving a damn. not really.") followed by regret (or crocodile tears.)

*So they did at least achieve some of that emotional response and engagement they were after. "Disappointment" in this case.

**waits for someone to inform me when third doctor had opportunity to learn aikido.

Actually I do have a suspicion that might be right, how about making him emo about something that's nothing to do with that, for example someone kills his companions and makes him watch?

If the Doctor is Emo does that mean that Amy is Grover and Rory is Count von Count??