Have just been watching the second series of Torchwood over the last few days and I think so far I have spotted three stories told before not in Torchwood but in Doctor Who and other Series as well.

Ie. The Episode 'Meat'. A huge creature comes to earth and meets bad guys first and is chained up and not treated very well by the bad guys. Sounds a bit like The Creature From The Pit?

'Dead Man Walking' Owen's eyes go all black and starts talking suspiciously like Will Thorpe's Character in The Impossible Planet/Satan's Pit, a story which in itself is a retelling of Planet Of Evil in parts of it.

And the Episode I have just watched has just seen Gwen getting Impregnated by an Alien Species showing within 24 hours. Now this particular storyline was done not by Doctor Who but in Angel when the same thing happened to Cordelia. I know not everyone watches Angel, but it's still a blatant rip-off nonetheless.

Other rehashes in Doctor Who itself have seen Voyage of The Damned retell Robots Of Death(Badly in my opinion), the whole creature on the back thing in Turn Left(Read Spider in Planet Of The Spiders) and similar lines and actions from the Daleks in VOTD that were present in The Power Of The Daleks.

So do you think it's okay to rehash old ideas from Doctor Who in the new series and Torchwood, or rip-off others from other Series? Or should they stick to more original stuff? My personal opinion is that it's okay if it's done to a small degree. To do a blatant retelling in modern form in stories like Voyage Of The Damned I don't think is such a good idea.

The problem is that most stories are re-hashes of stories from somewhere else. It is almost impossible to come up with something original. All that can be done is create a new spin on old ideas.

Let’s face it most Buffy/Angel stories were just that.

As they say, there are really only seven stories to tell.

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I agree with that, but my point was that both Torchwood and Doctor Who are actually using ideas again that have been used before. Ideas from another series is always going to happen, I accept that to a point. How many times have we seen doppelgangers, body swaps evil twin stories in various TV series? That sort of thing is unavoidable, it's just when I see The Creature From The Pit being sort of rewritten for Torchwood with Captain Jack almost saying the same lines as The Doctor regarding whom the creature encountered first etc, that's when it bugs me just a little.

It has been commented on that The Android Invasion had some distinct similarities with Terror of the Zygons, which was broadcast just a couple of months earlier. Terror of the Autons wasn't terribly different in plot from Spearhead from Space either. I'm sure there are others people can think of.

There certainly are. I wasn't too impressed by the way Toby Whithouse, in my view, basically lifted the entire plot of School Reunion and used it again in Vampires of Venice, although I can't knock any story too badly that has that scene with the Doctor popping out of the cake at Rory's stag night.

there are similarities, with aliens coming to earth, but that's where they end.

In School Reunion, they are taking over the children to crack a code to give them access to the power of the universe.

In Vampires of Venice, it's a race that's been displaced by the crack / silence, and they are trying to rebuild their civilisation in a small pocket of earth.

There are a few others....like the Doctor says at the beginning that life with him makes it harder to adjust back...or something along those lines....referrencing what SJS had said to him....the idea that a certain problem is solved with a flick of a switch...in SR it was a plug....most of the baddies get blown up, both involve a school, both have a scrayish scene to start with where one character (both females scream...and both end on a slightly hillarious (more so funnt for the Eleventh Doctor with the cake) Doctor comment/scene before the opening credits....as well as the jealousy aspect between characters is being played, and banter jibes being passed between two characters (Rose/SJS, Doctor/Rory)....both question life with the Doctor....


So many themes are similar.....but I really enjoy both stories...SR moreso....but really like Venice too

To be fair, I think most of the Nu Who can follow that template

Lol yes... But what I meant was that the two stories which happend to be written by the same writer, while watching it, I couldn't help but notice the similar themes being explored, and the set out of the stle of the episode....there would be the obvious differences of course, what with the series arc to be put into VOV, as well a different species (both whom hid in human form, with the main peroson able to sustain it for longer...but again differences are put into that as well)...as well as bats and vampires (although the guy being head of being human, this comes as no suprise) and so on....

But it didn't affect the story...and i don't think it was a re-hash....just similar in style.....

I just watched an episode of The Avengers today called The Mauritius Penny. See if seems familar......

Basically it's about a military group who want to take over the whole country, led by a strong female character. During the main meeting, Cathy Gale has infiltrated the group but she has been spotted by someone and she is pointed out as a traitor and led away.

Fast forward 12 years and look at the similarities between this and Robot, Tom Baker's debut story. What makes it even more amusing is that the co-author of this Avengers Story, alongside Malcolm Hulke, is one Terrance Dicks, who wrote Robot.........

Obviously the details are somewhat different, but otherwise...

Aliens with shapeshifting abilities come to Earth, pretend to be running a school so they can get humans that they need for their masterplan, the Doctor gets involved, companion's SO tags along, the Doctor and alien leader have a confrontation and the Doctor rejects an alliance offer, aliens then try to kill the Doctor and friends, the Doctor stops their evil plans, SO decides to stick around in the TARDIS.

Very similar if you ask me.

Aliens with shapeshifting abilities come to Earth (hardly copyrighted by Toby), pretend to be running a school (give you that...but its basically aliens harvesting humans (girls only in this case), which is very very uncommon in sci-fi, isn't it), the Doctor gets involved (as in infiltration? Yep, that stinks of Toby), companion's SO tags along (was invited prior to main story starting, different circumstances), Doctor and alien leader have a confrontation and rejects alliance offer (that's actually quite a good similarity...but it was written very differently with a different dynamic in mind...and many other villains have at least made a slight offer for an alliance), aliens then try to kill the Doctor and friends (that's where most Who episodes get their action from), The Doctor stops their evil plans (Yay! Saves the world, woop woop...makes a change, dunnit), SO decides to stick around in the TARDIS (decided earlier...or later, even, as far as the end of Amy's Choice).

There are similarities, but over half of them are not exclusively Toby's style - and those that were (school setting, a boyfriend and a confrontation) were done very very differently. Plus, its been four years...only a very very small percentage of the audience would even bother trying to connect dots like these, which works in Toby's favour.

Plus, Vampires of Venice hardly felt like School Reunion in style, did it?

I did say the details were noticeably different and obviously, Renaissance Venice is hardly going to have the same style and mood as a 21st Century London comprehensive. And of course the same kinds of plot elements are going to pop up again and again in science fiction, it can hardly be helped. If two stories have some of the same plot elements and different narratives, that's one thing. I just felt that these two stories had all the same plot elements, albeit with substantial variations, contained within a broadly similar narrative. They both even had, now I think about it, an ally of the Doctor committing self-sacrifice in a big explosion to help the Doctor escape and wreck the aliens' plans by blowing them all up.

How exactly is "Voyage of the Damned" a retread of "The Robots of Death"? Because it has shiny, placid-looking robots who are actually murderous? That element may be similar, but VotD is more like The Poseidon Adventure or Starship Titanic or something!

Because in VOTD the robots start of as friendly servitors of mankind, they then become murderers and are bossed about by a humanoid villain.
As was the case in The Robots Of Death.

I'm not saying it was an exact rewrite but it was a blatant rip-off in my opinion.

As Tom Baker says in the Hand of Fear dvd extra, Doctor Who stole from other genres such as horror movies, but it wasn't plagarism it was 'homage'.