I like it when the gurus put things in context

So are lifts allowed in proper Latin competition, Erinfan? Where are they allowed to be used and where not?

Please know that the "motorbike" on DWTS was done as a joke. Adam was ready to go out, he was an awful dancer and wanted to inject comedy into the routine. It was a prop taken to the extreme and not to hide his bad dancing. The gist of it was that riding a unicycle was the only talent he had. I think the judges were in on the joke and they were just laughing not taking him seriously. And of course he went out. Adam said later he wanted to go out because he did not want the better dancers to be booted in favor of him because he was placing very high in the voting numbers. I don't think you would ever see that kind of thing on SCD.

I suppose I'm going to seem like an old fuddy-duddy, but I would much rather see the dancing without the use of props and broken hold/disco moves thrown in. I don't mean omitting the exciting moves that appear to be a lift but aren't (that are used in real competitive dancing) but the really ridiculous stuff that has nothing to do with the dance - eg emerging from wellies, cartwheels, caterpillars, throwing books etc

It seems to me from dancing myself that there are almost endless ways you can string moves together to create a unique dance but as soon as the props and hold breaking comes in suddenly you are watching a whole host of American Smooth dances or a generic dance that doesn't fit the particular character of any latin dance.
Looks like I will have to try and go along to some more real comps this year to get my fix of real dancing *sigh*

The point is, if the rules have changed, then Len's "expertise", such as it is, is even less valuable than it is now.

Difficult to believe I know.

You certainly will. But apart from the occasional dance, SCD has never really been about real dancing, it never has been.

If it was the celebs would never get past learning very simple basic (beginner's) routines, as there simply isn't time in a few weeks for them to learn proper footwork, let alone the rest of the technique of any dance. Remember Alisha's so-called "fabulous" cha cha? Technically it was appalling, horrible.

All very true. I entirely agree. I never rated Alesha's latin. She never once straightened her legs properly. I hated that cha cha cha.
I know SCD never has been an accurate portrayal of dancing, but I did feel that in earlier series there have been glimmers of celebrities using proper technique. Although with the camera work in later series' you can't tell what the celebrities are up to with their feet!

It does seem that way. I think we need to know what the rules are and what has been scrapped otherwise we'll spend all our time saying 'they aren't allowed to do that!"

I agree

It seems that the rules have changed, OP, and personally I prefer the old way.

However, I love Strictly too much to spoil my enjoyment of the show by dwelling on it for too long

I know Lili, I just hated the whole thing. Adam was just an awful dancer - a nice guy, but just awful! Thinking about it, I'm a bit fussy on comedy performances on DWTS or SCD. Some couples I loved like Melissa & Mark, but I hated almost everything Cloris did (I couldn't help but admire her fitness). Comedy is fine, but not at the expense of the dancing. Just about to watch this week's DWTS now!

Lifts are not allowed in latin or ballroom - they are only ever allowed in showdance.

There's a definition that a lift is any move that occurs when both feet are off the ground in a move that the lady couldn't do unsupported. But there are grey areas within that definition and it doesn't really hold completely true.

Both legs should never be off the floor for an extended period of time - that will ALWAYS be classed as a lift. However, if there's a brief move where the above applies, but the man's arms don't actually go up but instead may go down or forward, it's hard to call it a lift and common sense tends to come in with these moves. Karen called the move Artem and Kara did a dip, because Artem's arms and Kara's body actually went downwards - even if her legs swung out and both were very briefly off the floor. (I assume, she may have kept one on the floor - i'd have to watch it back) Dips aren't considered lifts and they are such a common move in Latin, you can't really knock Artem for including it.

One of the reasons there are no lifts in dancesport is that it is dangerous when there are so many couples dancing on the floor at the same time. Dips are often done in the Paso (although has moved into other dances like Cha Cha), as the music has three highlights and it makes a good highlight to swing the lady around and finish in a dramatic line held up by her partner. The World Champs for example have a trademark Paso entrance which shows the same kind of thing and it's all definitely allowed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gec1...eature=related

Again, the man's hands/arms don't go up and the lady's feet aren't both in the air for very long - one is quickly replaced by the other. It's more of a step over with a ronde, which is supported by the man and driven by momentum rather than lifting. It's all very compact and controlled as well and the weight stays low down.

However if you did this type of move in a comp and you weren't controlled and the lady's legs were swinging quite high up, it still may not be called a unequivocal lift, but a judge would come and give you a warning and would say that it must be taken out of the routine in the next round. On the premise that it's dangerous for other couples. That's why you never see jumps in comps, where the lady swings round and scissor kicks her legs out behind her. May not be a true lift, but it would be dangerous. There was quite a storm in Blackpool last year as the World Champs were given a warning and told to remove a backwards kick in their Rumba. It could be dangerous to other couples.

(About 0.54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny-6icH9t9Y )

Sorry - I've waffled on! I hope my explanation makes sense. I'm not an expert, but I follow dancesport and go to comps regularly and the above has always been my understanding of the lift stuff.

(Can't really remember what Aliona and Matt did, I'd have to rewatch it).

Pamela and James danced out of hold at the start of their (ballroom) dance

Thanks lots Erinfan, that makes perfect sense - and free Michael and Joanna thrown in as well. Couldn't have asked for a better explanation

EDIT: I don't want an expert, only a guru

I think they've always been allowed to dance out of hold at the start and the end - the bits that Len calls 'faffing abaht'!

Yeah, that's always been allowed, I think Alesha did so in one of her waltzes too...

To quote from my favourite film, it's all just "Flashy, crowd-pleasing steps".

But no longer "Strictly Ballroom".

It's enough to make Federation President Barry Fife weep into his Fosters.

It never has been 'Strictly Ballroom' though, it's impossible to be when the celebs have such a short time to learn each dance!

That didn't stop Fran progressing from beginner to Open Amateur standard in just a few weeks though, did it?

Correct.
An unrecognizable dance shall now be called a Widdiecombe.