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Old 19-07-2013, 12:52
Grand Dizzy
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I still haven’t seen MoS yet but the more clips I see and the more I read, the more I am led to believe that I will not like this film. The clips look really horrible, dark and dismal. It merely seems to be a great action film, but not the Superman I know and love, rather, continuing the gloomy, hopeless tone established by Returns.

Sadly, the trouble with an uncontrolled franchise is that new producers can completely change the tone of the original to appeal to completely different audiences with completely different values. That is a real shame.

No one ever presumed the Superman franchise needed a “style guide” because the style has always been implicit. It was a bright, upbeat tale of positivity and hope, and Superman was a perfect example of righteousness. Even though Quest for Peace was a dreadful film, it still strongly embodied that spirit.

But with Returns and now MOS, that spirit has been lost. Superman’s costume is darker, and the motivations of the character is reduced to simply fighting crime and saving lives for the sake of it. Superman lacks the deep, burning and tangible sense of moral righteousness that underlines all his motivations and words; therefore he is not really a universal figure of hope for the world, only a figure of circumstantial physical protection. It would also appear that the Superman presented in MOS is not a pure and perfect role model. He is now a flawed, self-motivated human character (smarmy, proud, aggressive, etc.) rather than being Christ-like and pure.

Many people will gladly welcome this change. I don’t. If people want a dark Superman, they should just invent a new superhero rather than changing what Superman is.

Or, being a writer, perhaps I shall invent my own superhero to surpass the fallen Superman? Then we might have a real “battle”! I am only half joking about this.
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Old 19-07-2013, 13:46
CJClarke
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I still haven’t seen MoS yet but the more clips I see and the more I read, the more I am led to believe that I will not like this film. The clips look really horrible, dark and dismal. It merely seems to be a great action film, but not the Superman I know and love, rather, continuing the gloomy, hopeless tone established by Returns.

Sadly, the trouble with an uncontrolled franchise is that new producers can completely change the tone of the original to appeal to completely different audiences with completely different values. That is a real shame.

No one ever presumed the Superman franchise needed a “style guide” because the style has always been implicit. It was a bright, upbeat tale of positivity and hope, and Superman was a perfect example of righteousness. Even though Quest for Peace was a dreadful film, it still strongly embodied that spirit.

But with Returns and now MOS, that spirit has been lost. Superman’s costume is darker, and the motivations of the character is reduced to simply fighting crime and saving lives for the sake of it. Superman lacks the deep, burning and tangible sense of moral righteousness that underlines all his motivations and words; therefore he is not really a universal figure of hope for the world, only a figure of circumstantial physical protection. It would also appear that the Superman presented in MOS is not a pure and perfect role model. He is now a flawed, self-motivated human character (smarmy, proud, aggressive, etc.) rather than being Christ-like and pure.

Many people will gladly welcome this change. I don’t. If people want a dark Superman, they should just invent a new superhero rather than changing what Superman is.

Or, being a writer, perhaps I shall invent my own superhero to surpass the fallen Superman? Then we might have a real “battle”! I am only half joking about this.
You should probably go and watch it because pretty much everything you write there about MOS is quite innaccurate in my opinion. It definitely isn't some hopeless and dismal movie, quite the opposite in fact, it might have a different colour palette to the old movies, but it's not as dark as the recent Batman movies, and neither is the tone. And even though he kills at the end, he's still a "Christ-like" figure and there's at least one very obvious visual reference to him being a Christ figure. The spirit of Superman is still there if you ask me, and i'm a life long fan of the Donner/Lester movies.

You should go and watch it, i think you'll be fairly surprised.
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Old 21-07-2013, 02:03
MrSuper
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I can't believe this is happening but it's true! Been confirmed at Comic-Con.

The sequel to Man Of Steel which will be released in 2015 is going to be a Superman vs Batman movie!

Does anyone else think this is completely wrong direction for the franchise? I do! This is SO not what i wanted to see in the sequel. This should be a one-off movie. It shouldn't be linked to the MOS franchise at all! Huge mistake imo.

Zack Snyder and screenwriter David S Goyer will oversee the project with Christopher Nolan taking on an executive producer role.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/n...-confirms.html
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Old 21-07-2013, 02:34
CJClarke
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Does anyone else think this is completely wrong direction for the franchise? I do! This is SO not what i wanted to see in the sequel. This should be a one-off movie. It shouldn't be linked to the MOS franchise at all! Huge mistake imo.
I agree, I'm all for a Batman and Superman movie, but it should be it's own movie, not shoehorning Batman into the Man of Steel series. The fact that they're using The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel as inspiration gives me hope though, but i still think it's a mistake to do this within the Man of Steel series.
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Old 21-07-2013, 02:40
MrSuper
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I agree, I'm all for a Batman and Superman movie, but it should be it's own movie, not shoehorning Batman into the Man of Steel series. The fact that they're using The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel as inspiration gives me hope though, but i still think it's a mistake to do this within the Man of Steel series.
I know, it's crazy right? Apparently after Man Of Steel 2 aka Superman vs Batman, the next movie will be the Justice League movie in 2017.

So its going to go from Man Of Steel (2013) > Superman vs Batman (2015) > Justice League (2017).

If this is the route they're going to take i think it's completely and utterly wrong. Especially shoehorning all this within the MOS/Superman franchise.
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Old 21-07-2013, 03:03
NinjyBear
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Doing a Batman/Superman film as a one-off is fine, but having the new Batman series exist in the same universe as the rest of the DC characters won't work in the long run IMO. He's a character that is much better suited to being on his own and, now with the new idea that all superhero films must be tied together, I really don't like the idea that we've seen the last of him as a character more grounded in reality.
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Old 21-07-2013, 03:39
Jonwo
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Doing a Batman/Superman film as a one-off is fine, but having the new Batman series exist in the same universe as the rest of the DC characters won't work in the long run IMO. He's a character that is much better suited to being on his own and, now with the new idea that all superhero films must be tied together, I really don't like the idea that we've seen the last of him as a character more grounded in reality.
I imagine after JL, he'll will be in his own solo films, after the Nolan trilogy, I think a Batman less grounded in reality is the way forward as it allows his more fantastical villians to be featured, I imagine it'll likely have a similar tone to TDKT as WB knows not to mess with the formula that works.
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Old 21-07-2013, 03:45
Motthus
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Yeah I would expect a Batman solo film after JL as the Batman/Superman team up is just the start of the build up for the JL.I agree this is a big mistake but the studio want to make a JL film so this is their way of doing it!

By the way the rumours are that there will be a Flash film in 2016 after the MOS sequel but before JL
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Old 21-07-2013, 04:11
NinjyBear
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I know he'll get his own films, I'd just rather he'd not be a part of the same universe as super-powered aliens. Batman himself can still be grounded while still going up against the more bizarre villains.
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Old 21-07-2013, 08:43
bluewomble88
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This is a stupid idea. Superman is invincible, Wayne got arthritis in his leg! It'll be over in less than a minute!
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Old 21-07-2013, 08:49
ASIFZED
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Can't believe they're going down this route. Much prefer a trilogy with Superman headlining his own films. RDJ got this with Iron Man and did the team-up thing in a companion series of films.

Batman will just be a distraction and I'm done with his tale (for a few years at least). Wonder how Cavill will feel about all this; potentially side-lined in his own (should have been) starring series of films.

Let them do a JLA film in a few years time, instead.
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Old 21-07-2013, 08:50
2Legit2Quit
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The thing I like about the Batman films is they are "kind of" grounded in reality, i.e everyone is human but to have Batman in a superhero world doesn't sit right with me.
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Old 21-07-2013, 09:54
DanielF
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Can't believe they're going down this route. Much prefer a trilogy with Superman headlining his own films. RDJ got this with Iron Man and did the team-up thing in a companion series of films.
Apart from Black Widow and War Machine - whilst not franchise headliners in their own right like a Batman, War Machine was heavily used in the promotion for IM2 and played a key part in both the last two movies.

Batman in MoS can work, but I'm a bit troubled if it's Dark Knight Returns Bats - as awesome as that is, he's a bit old and beaten up! Hopefully that's just a style, and we'll get a young fresh Batman (Year One perhaps?) who's come to check out the menace of the Kryptonian city destroyer.
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Old 21-07-2013, 23:33
Grand Dizzy
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Sure, let’s all go to watch a Superman Vs Batman film.

And why not combine watching the film with a bath? Everyone likes films and baths.

Oh and take a snack along such as a Polo Mint sandwich.

Do you see?
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Old 22-07-2013, 00:28
Johnny Clay
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^ Eh?

*edges away on tiptoe*
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Old 25-07-2013, 18:35
NewWorldMan
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Well, there was more to it than that. Jor-El seemed to be saying that they had actually caused the death of Krypton by mining its core.
Yes, they did. But my interpretation is that they didn't intend to destroy themselves!

Zod in Superman 2 had all his powers taken away. He was as weak as any normal human at the end. Superman could have handed him over to the authorities, as he had clearly committed crimes against the people of Earth. But instead he picked him up and threw him down a pit.

Kinda mean, really
Yep, you're right. I'd overlooked that. Of course, it would have been less dramatic.
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Old 25-07-2013, 19:40
Karis
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It could be great but:

1. It's a Snyder movie.
2. Superman needs another movie to really cement Cavill as the Man of Steel.
3. See #1
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Old 25-07-2013, 21:09
Grand Dizzy
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I think a lot of people assume Superman has no authority to kill someone.

I guess that is a matter of opinion. To me, he certainly does have such authority. It would only be immoral for Superman to kill a human if he was a mere human, but he is not, he is greater. Superman is a god-like figure. He is a higher moral power, embodying righteousness and justice. In his vast wisdom, if Superman deems that someone is wicked beyond all measure and without any chance of changing their ways, then why should he not pronounce capital punishment, and rid the earth of this wickedness. Similar to our own criminal system, only with more perfect judgement and discernment.

As someone who believes in God (a God who has the right to destroy the wicked), when I watch a Superman film I have to decide whether I place Kal-el in the same category of humans, or in the same category as divinity, and that is a very clear and easy choice to make. He is “above us” in just about ever sense! (All IMHO)
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Old 26-07-2013, 06:18
bluewomble88
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Well now that the sequel will be a face off with Batman, that makes this film totally pointless and irrelevant.
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Old 26-07-2013, 13:59
starsailor
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It could be great but:

1. It's a Snyder movie.
2. Superman needs another movie to really cement Cavill as the Man of Steel.
3. See #1
Yeah, I really think that there needs to be another 'Superman as Superman' film before bringing in Batman.

This just feels very rushed by DC, and is clearly a push to get to 'Justice league' film as soon as possible.

The 'Nolan' Batman is just too fresh in peoples minds at the moment. I don't mind them doing a new type of Batman which is more 'comic', but they need to be careful to get it right, and I feel that needs his own film to work in Batman + Gotham + all the other questions that brings (ie what his enemies are like, what his relationship with Alfred/Jim Gordon/Robin (if Robin exists etc)...

Although you don't need a new 'origin' story for Batman, you do need to define who he is and what he is...
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Old 26-07-2013, 14:22
Yuffie
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Don't think it will. It will probably continue the story and nobody knows how much Batman will be in it. I think they'll continue MoS on.
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Old 26-07-2013, 18:42
Grand Dizzy
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This Superman vs Batman concept… With my mouth and my head, I have nothing but complaint and scepticism about it. But deep down in my heart, I can’t deny that somewhere there is a genuine bubbling excitement about how shockingly fresh and bold this movie would be, and how much potential it has to be amazing (as well as to suck).

At first I just thought it sounded gimmicky, high-concept and lazy. A cheap ploy for easy box office money. Though while that may all be true, there really is something to be said in film-making for risk-taking and saying “why not?”. Better that than formulaic mediocrity, eh?

Though I still haven’t seen a single one of Snyder’s films (inlcuding MoS yet) so that is the unknown for me. Hmmm.
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Old 27-07-2013, 10:24
starsailor
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Don't think it will. It will probably continue the story and nobody knows how much Batman will be in it. I think they'll continue MoS on.
Only having Batman as a small part is a huge risk. Arguably batman is a bigger ´star´ than superman, especially in fanworld
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Old 13-08-2013, 14:43
Ashley_Mcloughl
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You can tell they're desperate to get Christian Bale for the sequel if they're offering him $50 Million http://buzzsauce.co.uk/film/christia...man-vs-batman/
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Old 13-08-2013, 19:49
Yuffie
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Only having Batman as a small part is a huge risk. Arguably batman is a bigger ´star´ than superman, especially in fanworld
Agree that Batman may be bigger, especially in the past few years, but I think he's had his day, for WB, they want to put Superman on the podium now and I think if Batman gets too much screentime, then Superman will be the supporting superhero, and isn't this a sequel to MoS as well.

I'll stick with my gut and predict that Batman won't be in the film that much. I guess we'll see over the next year.
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