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Old 04-12-2010, 09:16
noise747
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It was a half hearted reference to how the Germans compliance at the time to the Nazi's allowed them such power.
I've not come across Iron before and am not perticularly aware of security risks associated with Chrome but may look into it.
I still like the idea of Google TV.
Iron is chrome more or less, it is produced from the open source chromium browser.

i said nothing about security risks, what I said was that there is no Google spying rubbish in Iron. apart from the Phishing and Malware protection that uses Google, I switched that off.
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Old 05-12-2010, 22:04
davidredge
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From what I have seen, I like Google TV. So much that it'll probably be an essential purchase for me when it comes. Most of my life is on Google, so I have no problems with them having my TV viewing habits either.

My one barrier is our 2.5mbps broadband connection. Its OK for iPlayer Hight Quality (on Freesat), but we'll have to see how things pan out since I guess Google TV will be grabbing the streams from iPlayer for PC (and that HD stream is beyond our broadband speeds).

I think Google TV will fare better over in the UK. The BBC would probably be under an ethical obligation not to block Google TV, Five and Channel 4 are already in contract with Google for YouTube. This leaves only ITV who could block, but would they go against the tide? That is the UKs major commissioners tied up.

Sky would no doubt throw a hissy fit, but they're commisions are negligable and contracts with US seem only exclusive for a few months. Virgin offer bugger all online. Services such as SeeSaw, LoveFilm and Amazon would no doubt join - thats a pretty comprehensive service in my opinion.
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Old 06-12-2010, 19:01
kesterwww
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Davidredge, I completely agree with you. I don't understand why some people have a problem with surfing the web from their TV's, a lot of people say "That's what a PC is for", while that is true, I would very much like to see a browser on my 360.
I don't have a very recent laptop, so I can't watch HD web content. Having a system like Google tv which connects via hdmi would be a good solution for me. I could watch BBC iPlayer and Youtube HD streams.
Also, it seems like the natural evolution for the TV set, to link up with the internet.
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Old 06-12-2010, 21:29
noise747
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From what I have seen, I like Google TV. So much that it'll probably be an essential purchase for me when it comes. Most of my life is on Google, so I have no problems with them having my TV viewing habits either.
You remind me of someone I know that thinks Google is great and does everything via Google.
Myself I try to stay well clear


My one barrier is our 2.5mbps broadband connection. Its OK for iPlayer Hight Quality (on Freesat), but we'll have to see how things pan out since I guess Google TV will be grabbing the streams from iPlayer for PC (and that HD stream is beyond our broadband speeds).
why should Google make money via our T.v licence?, which is what they would be doing if they grabbed the steams from Iplayer.

I have about 3.5-4megabits, Iplayer works fine via the Wii and the PS3, for normal high quality stuff, but Hd is a no no. i could download them to my computer, but don't see the point.


I think Google TV will fare better over in the UK. The BBC would probably be under an ethical obligation not to block Google TV, Five and Channel 4 are already in contract with Google for YouTube. This leaves only ITV who could block, but would they go against the tide? That is the UKs major commissioners tied up.
why would the BBDC be under a ethical obligation not to block Google? Just because Channel 4 and Channel five uses You Tube it don't meant hey won't block Google T.V. But if Google T.v can uses You tube anyway, then it won't matter.


Sky would no doubt throw a hissy fit, but they're commisions are negligable and contracts with US seem only exclusive for a few months. Virgin offer bugger all online. Services such as SeeSaw, LoveFilm and Amazon would no doubt join - thats a pretty comprehensive service in my opinion.
i don't think people realise what Google T.V is. It is a box that more or less give links to video streams. It is a win win situation for Google, not only are you paying for the box, but Google can then chuck their adverts at you.

No one else gets anything out of this, apart from Google.
Seesaw is useless, it really is, they can't even get 4:3 content right, you watch it on a computer and it is in a tiny square box in the middle of the screen. How much cope is that?


Lovefilm I have no idea what the service is like, I was going to try it on the PS3, but I am not updating to something may not work and then find I can't downgrade again
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Old 06-12-2010, 21:34
noise747
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Davidredge, I completely agree with you. I don't understand why some people have a problem with surfing the web from their TV's, a lot of people say "That's what a PC is for", while that is true, I would very much like to see a browser on my 360.
I tell you why, because it is useless. Over the years there have been many systems for browsing the net on your t.v and none of them have been any good.

I got a browser on my PS3 and Wii and none of them are much cop, lots of sites don't work as they should and this is the problem we have had for years.

Best way to browse the net is with a computer.


I don't have a very recent laptop, so I can't watch HD web content. Having a system like Google tv which connects via hdmi would be a good solution for me. I could watch BBC iPlayer and Youtube HD streams.
My computer is pretty well up to date so can play HD content, but my internet is not up to it and you will find that is true for many people.

You need a good broadband connection to stream HD without any problems.
Also, it seems like the natural evolution for the TV set, to link up with the internet.
no doubt, but it depends how they do it. I think it will be just about how much money they can suck out of people.
That includes you view as well, not just Google.
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Old 06-12-2010, 23:57
kesterwww
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No one else gets anything out of this, apart from Google.
Seesaw is useless, it really is, they can't even get 4:3 content right, you watch it on a computer and it is in a tiny square box in the middle of the screen. How much cope is that?
um, Noise, surely the consumer is getting a product which they have made an informed choice about, also companies are getting new ways to make revenue. This is good as it means more stuff on the web can become free (and legal) for customers.
Also, on SeeSaw it is possible to make the shows full screen, at least all the ones I have watched on there. I don't use the web site much, but this is the perfect kind of web site for Google TV, in my opinion.

I tell you why, because it is useless. Over the years there have been many systems for browsing the net on your t.v and none of them have been any good.

I got a browser on my PS3 and Wii and none of them are much cop, lots of sites don't work as they should and this is the problem we have had for years.

Best way to browse the net is with a computer.
OK, you may have a point, I have never used a web browser on anything other than a computer (and phones, of course) so can not really comment. I had a mate who had a dreamcast years ago, and have vague memories about that. But, for me, I originally got broadband for online gaming. I didn't have a computer. A browser on my 360 would have been the perfect solution. As it turns out, I ended up getting a refurbished laptop which I still use now.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:35
noise747
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um, Noise, surely the consumer is getting a product which they have made an informed choice about,

Very few people make a informed choice, that is the problem. Many people sign for services and they have no idea what they are signing for. I wonder how many people on these forums even have looked at every single bit of small print when they got Sky, BT or any other service? Also how many people really reads the EULA on any software they use be it from Google or any other supplier?

I read it all, that is why I won't get a nectar card or why I won't use Google stuff.


also companies are getting new ways to make revenue. This is good as it means more stuff on the web can become free (and legal) for customers.
Depends on what information you got to give them for it to be free, I think some people would sell their soles to have some things free.

Also, on SeeSaw it is possible to make the shows full screen, at least all the ones I have watched on there. I don't use the web site much, but this is the perfect kind of web site for Google TV, in my opinion.
i know that you can make it full screen, but 4:3 is still a small square in the centre of the screen and that is with a 4:3 monitor
Perfect website for google to throw their invasive advertisements at people

the problem is you can't get away from Google that easy, even if you don't use anything to do with Google, you are still being track with their flipping adverts all over the net or their analytics's

Unless you know how to get rid of them, you can be followed all around the net by this company who have no idea what privacy is and to be honest they don't care either.
Typical American company, just because they have no privacy over there, thinks we must be the same

OK, you may have a point, I have never used a web browser on anything other than a computer (and phones, of course)
But browsing on mobile phones are iffy as well, I have used a Iphone, a Android phone and they both have their problems.
not my phones by the way, just used them for a while to see what all the fuss is about

so can not really comment. I had a mate who had a dreamcast years ago, and have vague memories about that.

The net was so different then.
But, for me, I originally got broadband for online gaming. I didn't have a computer. A browser on my 360 would have been the perfect solution. As it turns out, I ended up getting a refurbished laptop which I still use now.
the problem is the net changes too quick now, with a computer it is easy to update, but any other way it takes time. You look at Iplayer on say the PS3, you can get Iplayer, but it is not like the one who have on your computer.
With Apple being the same as they normally are and not allowing Flash on their products, how many people are going to miss out on stuff that is flashed based?

Too many people got their foot in the door and the net is now to be honest a mess, too many so called standards.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:00
neo_wales
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What is wrong with google? how will me using google have a direct, tangible negative impact on me and or my life?


As for using the net via a TV well, I can, spare PC base unit plugged into my ludicrously large (its too big, need a smaller one) telly, wireless keyboard and mouse and away you go, boot up, and I'm up and running.

I do however, perfer to use a dedicated net PC, nice chair, desk, 32" monitor, very nice
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Old 12-12-2010, 20:03
davidredge
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I think the arguments directed at Google TVs web browsing capabilities are negligible - that's added value for Google - that's where they'll make their money. Google TV is about video content on your big screen and that makes perfect sense in my opinion - no matter what chair I'm in, what piece of equipment I have in front of me it is just not enjoyable to watch content on small screen.

TV services have inherited programme guides which are stuck squarely in the ancient TV magazine culture - find the day, find the channel, fine the time and hope something is on. Here comes Google TV redefining how we find the content we're after - to admittedly, hit and miss results at the moment. But it has the potential to change the industry completely (something I think is well overdue); encouraging people to find quality programming, rather than sit and rot infront of the box. In fairness, that's probably the real reasons why the networks are against Google TV, its going to reduce the numbers who simply sit and watch whatever is on, bolstering the viewing figures and ad revenues.

In regards to Noises reply - yes, I live on the cloud, and Google is a one-stop shop for that. They don't make the best products, but as an overall package, Google works. I'm not entirely sure what the problem is with Google - yes, in exchange for their free products, they analyse your internet behaviour.... Thats a pretty good deal for the average consumer.

And how exactly would Google make money off the back of my License fee? The BBC will not sponsor links to programming, I am sure of that. A BBC app would be free, Google would not charge them. Indeed, the BBC would have an ethical reason to support Google TV - they're launching a competitng service (YouView), they also support closed commercial service providers (Virgin Media, BT Vision) and, from my understanding, Google TV would simply pick up their PC iPlayer services - to commercially block Google TV from PC iPlayer, while supporting YouView and Virgin Media would not be impartial at all (plus, a cost would be incurred to block it). Of course, ITV, Channel 4 and Five could potentially block access but my feeling is they will not.

I have not seen how Google TV integrates with the variety of feeds, but I suspect any adverts - excluding Youtube videos - are those placed by the content holders. Google may slip in an advert somewhere, I don't know - but with it linked to your Google account, its more likely it'll just tailor adverts in your browsing. Thats where Google make their money, I cant see that changing; everything Google does supoorts their core income - online advertising
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Old 12-12-2010, 23:09
noise747
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What is wrong with google? how will me using google have a direct, tangible negative impact on me and or my life?
Did anyone say it would have a direct, tangible negative impact on you or your life?
i just prefer they did not know as much as they want to about me. it is my choice, just a shame that Google don't realise that

As for using the net via a TV well, I can, spare PC base unit plugged into my ludicrously large (its too big, need a smaller one) telly, wireless keyboard and mouse and away you go, boot up, and I'm up and running.
I can do that, but can't be bothered.
I do however, perfer to use a dedicated net PC, nice chair, desk, 32" monitor, very nice
i must get a larger monitor when I can be bothered, but I think 32 inch is a bit big. It will be easier to video edit on a larger screen
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Old 12-12-2010, 23:27
noise747
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I think the arguments directed at Google TVs web browsing capabilities are negligible - that's added value for Google - that's where they'll make their money.

They make their money by selling adverts and then chucking them at 4everyone and trying to find out who you are, and what sites you are visiting in the process.

Google TV is about video content on your big screen and that makes perfect sense in my opinion - no matter what chair I'm in, what piece of equipment I have in front of me it is just not enjoyable to watch content on small screen.
Google T.V is about how much more money can Google get by trying to find out what we are doing on the net.

Video content is good on a big screen, depending on the quality, but there are ways to do that without having Goolge stick their feet into it.

TV services have inherited programme guides which are stuck squarely in the ancient TV magazine culture - find the day, find the channel, fine the time and hope something is on.
Nothing wrong with that, a lot of people in this country have some sort of PVR now, they can do what I do and record most of the stuff they watch and then watch when ever they want.

The only time I look at guides now is to set up for recording.


Here comes Google TV redefining how we find the content we're after - to admittedly, hit and miss results at the moment. But it has the potential to change the industry completely (something I think is well overdue); encouraging people to find quality programming, rather than sit and rot infront of the box.
Is that not what you view is going to do? I not denying that something like it is not overdue, but to be honest this country have not really had the infrastructure to do it and to be honest a lot of places still don't.

what gets me is that once again it is Google that is doing this

In fairness, that's probably the real reasons why the networks are against Google TV, its going to reduce the numbers who simply sit and watch whatever is on, bolstering the viewing figures and ad revenues.
I doubt it, they no doubt want to be in control of their own content



In regards to Noises reply - yes, I live on the cloud, and Google is a one-stop shop for that. They don't make the best products, but as an overall package, Google works. I'm not entirely sure what the problem is with Google - yes, in exchange for their free products, they analyse your internet behaviour.... Thats a pretty good deal for the average consumer.

Doing stuff via the cloud is not the brightest thing to do. I prefer stuff to be on my computer and stay on my computer. That is why my word processor and my DTP is on my computer and not on some server stuck in some American city.
What happens if their servers go belly up or you lose your online connection?

If you want to use Google maps or any other Google product then that is your choice, you know what you are doing and you know that you are going to get spied on. What annoyes me is that even if I don't touch Google they are still trying to stick their dirty cookies and other spying rubbish on me when I go to other sites and the only way I can stop it is to block cookies and get some plug to stop their other spying rubbish like their analytics's

It should all be opt in, we should not have to bother with plug ins to stop it.


And how exactly would Google make money off the back of my License fee? The BBC will not sponsor links to programming, I am sure of that. A BBC app would be free, Google would not charge them.
Google T.v would have adverts based on the conten of what it is showing, so if it is showing BBC links, it will have adverts based on that.

Indeed, the BBC would have an ethical reason to support Google TV
No they don't

- they're launching a competitng service (YouView)
The BBc part of You view will not have adverts, there will be no adverts on the guide either

,
they also support closed commercial service providers (Virgin Media, BT Vision) and, from my understanding, Google TV would simply pick up their PC iPlayer services - to commercially block Google TV from PC iPlayer, while supporting YouView and Virgin Media would not be impartial at all (plus, a cost would be incurred to block it). Of course, ITV, Channel 4 and Five could potentially block access but my feeling is they will not.
Google supports Google, that is it, the only thing Google cares about is Google and how much more money they can make by trying to find out any other way to spy on people.

I would never have a Android phone, because I would have no idea what Google is doing with it.

I have not seen how Google TV integrates with the variety of feeds, but I suspect any adverts - excluding Youtube videos - are those placed by the content holders. Google may slip in an advert somewhere, I don't know - but with it linked to your Google account, its more likely it'll just tailor adverts in your browsing. Thats where Google make their money, I cant see that changing; everything Google does supoorts their core income - online advertising
But we don't know what they do. what happens if you don't have a Google account?
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Old 17-12-2010, 23:34
thedrifter
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google said google tv will be in uk sometime in 2011
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Old 18-12-2010, 08:37
gonefishin
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google said google tv will be in uk sometime in 2011

Maybe, maybe not...

Google TV is indefinitely delayed in the UK, The Inquirer.
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Old 18-12-2010, 09:23
noise747
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They are either waiting for You View and hoping they can get in on that or they will just give up.
It could one of these things that will fail and even die in the U.S.
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Old 18-12-2010, 09:38
gonefishin
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They are either waiting for You View and hoping they can get in on that or they will just give up.
It could one of these things that will fail and even die in the U.S.
Not trying to be contrary, but I doubt either. Google's TV product is about holding out for the bigger prize of getting a slice of TV ad revenues. This and the fact that Google hasn't offered a viable means of monetising content for partners via Google TV explains why many of the major U.S. networks are holding back (new media distribution doesn't offer sufficient revenue to replace syndication fees paid by cable and satellite operators - trading "analog dollars for digital pennies" as NBC chief Jeff Zucker has called it).

Furthermore, Google's strategy for the source code isn't about a profit centre but ubiquity: they're giving it away to any manufacturer who wants it.

I've had a play with Google TV when last in the US and the reality doesn't live up to the hype. All the really worthwhile services like those from the major networks or Hulu aren't yet available. Both Logitech's keyboard and the smaller one from Sony turn telly watching into a slow, tedious experience involving too much hard work on the part of the user.

I doubt Google feel particularly threatened by YouView - after all the platform offers them an opportunity for further distribution of YouTube. But the combination of enhanced VOD services from the PS3, the new VIrgin / TiVo product, Sky Anytime+, not to mention smaller incumbents like FetchTV make the UK market already pretty crowded.

Who would you trust to deliver you the best TV + VOD experience? A consortium of UK broadcasters + two major ISPs, one of the two major pay TV platforms which you may already have in your home or a company who most of us know best for being the world's favourite search engine?

Google have heaps of money to throw at this and patience. I expect it may pay off for them in the second half of the next decade.
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Old 19-12-2010, 12:25
noise747
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Not trying to be contrary, but I doubt either. Google's TV product is about holding out for the bigger prize of getting a slice of TV ad revenues. This and the fact that Google hasn't offered a viable means of monetising content for partners via Google TV explains why many of the major U.S. networks are holding back (new media distribution doesn't offer sufficient revenue to replace syndication fees paid by cable and satellite operators - trading "analog dollars for digital pennies" as NBC chief Jeff Zucker has called it).
You could be right.

Furthermore, Google's strategy for the source code isn't about a profit centre but ubiquity: they're giving it away to any manufacturer who wants it.

i am sure Google does it out of the goodness of their heart. everything google does is for money, either directly or indirectly. Like people saying about chromium being open sourced, that it is good of google to do that, just like Android. they either does it for publicity, hoping to get their name out or like Android, they do it so people will buy apps.


I've had a play with Google TV when last in the US and the reality doesn't live up to the hype. All the really worthwhile services like those from the major networks or Hulu aren't yet available. Both Logitech's keyboard and the smaller one from Sony turn telly watching into a slow, tedious experience involving too much hard work on the part of the user.

People don't want Keyboards with their T.v, they want a simple remote. I remember a few years back with video recorders and some of the complex remotes they came with, confused many people.

i know keyboards are useful for putting text in, but T.v should not be about that.


I doubt Google feel particularly threatened by YouView - after all the platform offers them an opportunity for further distribution of YouTube. But the combination of enhanced VOD services from the PS3, the new VIrgin / TiVo product, Sky Anytime+, not to mention smaller incumbents like FetchTV make the UK market already pretty crowded.

That is the problem, too many now with different boxes and different ways to get the services. If You view can combine those services it is a good thing, but the lack of a central pay system will make it a pain.
i like the idea of you view, but sadly it will concentrate too much on how can we get more money form the public



Who would you trust to deliver you the best TV + VOD experience? A consortium of UK broadcasters + two major ISPs, one of the two major pay TV platforms which you may already have in your home or a company who most of us know best for being the world's favourite search engine?

None of them to be honest, because none of them offers what I would want. which is a service that I can just pick the stuff i want to watch and then watch it,.

These days T.V is all about how many buttons can we get the public to press
Google have heaps of money to throw at this and patience. I expect it may pay off for them in the second half of the next decade.
You could be right, but Google have failed on a few things, they are not perfect even if everyone thinks they are
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Old 21-12-2010, 17:26
kesterwww
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i like the idea of you view, but sadly it will concentrate too much on how can we get more money form the public
What factual evidence are you basing this statement on noise?
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Old 21-12-2010, 22:25
noise747
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What factual evidence are you basing this statement on noise?
None to be honest, but You view is going to be mostly commercial and if you think that commercial broadcasters are not going to take advantage of a system connected to the net to get more money out of Joe public then you are on the wrong planet


You only have to look at ITV and Sky for that matter with their music and dancing shows, that gets people to phone in. they must rake it in.

The BBc is different, they are not allowed to make money that way


I can't wait to see what commercial stuff is going to be put onto You view to try and scam moeny off people.

But saying all that, I am thinking of waiting before I decide to go for HD or not until You view come out and I can see it working. but then that depends how long they take.

I will wait until April, which is when our analogue system is turned off here and then decide what to do.

I do like the idea of you View, just a few things do worry me.
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Old 23-12-2010, 08:23
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That is the problem, too many now with different boxes and different ways to get the services. If You view can combine those services it is a good thing, but the lack of a central pay system will make it a pain.
i like the idea of you view, but sadly it will concentrate too much on how can we get more money form the public
Looks like Youview will have a micropayments system as well as paying the ISP (BT or Talktalk)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010...nds-as-youview
The platform will also allow paid-content offerings and Halton said there had been a lot of interest from production companies and broadcasters, including The X Factor producer FremantleMedia and ITV, about the prospect of micropayments. The Fremantle boss, Tony Cohen, and ITV chief executive Adam Crozier have both publicly talked of exploring micropayment models.
Hopefully the micropayments system will be reliable otherwise confidence can be lost!
The Guardian has doubts if Google TV will make to the UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ogle-tv-delays
In short, the UK may well just get ahead of the US via iPlayer and YouView. But don't hold your breath for Google TV.
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Old 23-12-2010, 08:30
gonefishin
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All's not well with Google TV. Google has asked Toshiba and Sharp not to launch their Google TVs at next month's Consumer Electronics Show:

BNET.

Sister site CNET has done some good analysis of the disparity between the content offers for Google TV and Netflix.

Meanwhile, Steve Jobs 'hobby', Apple TV has now sold > 1 million units: Daily Telegraph.
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Old 23-12-2010, 10:11
1andrew1
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Meanwhile, Steve Jobs 'hobby', Apple TV has now sold > 1 million units: Daily Telegraph.
I wonder how many in the UK? I think it's a hobby product here.
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Old 23-12-2010, 22:44
noise747
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Looks like Youview will have a micropayments system as well as paying the ISP (BT or Talktalk)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010...nds-as-youview

Hopefully the micropayments system will be reliable otherwise confidence can be lost!
Micropayments is what it says, payments that each content provider sets up, not one payment service.


so say sony set up a service, on you View, you would need to pay Sony, then say ITV set up a service that needs paying for you have to set up another way of paying ITV.

Like with Sky, virgin and even Top UP T.v, you pay one company for what ever content you have on their platform.

You could end up having 20 different direct debits from 20 different content providers on you View, not really ideal



The Guardian has doubts if Google TV will make to the UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ogle-tv-delays

i have doubts as well, I said it ages ago
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Old 24-12-2010, 22:36
kesterwww
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The Guardian has doubts if Google TV will make to the UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ogle-tv-delays
Shame, as I like the look of Google Tv, even with access to main broadcasters on demand sites being blocked, it would be good for things like Sidereel, ovguide and YouTube.

I'm hoping YouView has some kind of web browser. As long as the set top box is either free or at a low cost (albeit with an extension to my bt contract) I'm planing on getting it on release.
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Old 24-12-2010, 23:12
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I'm hoping YouView has some kind of web browser. As long as the set top box is either free or at a low cost (albeit with an extension to my bt contract) I'm planing on getting it on release.
No, the box will not include that.

But, they have stated induvidual providers can supply their own apps, which can include web browsers!

So it looks like you'll get the best of both worlds.
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Old 26-12-2010, 19:06
alanwarwic
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
It was originally meant to be Tegra 2 but software problems delayed it so they switched to Intel.
I'm now failing to see the point of it when full PC's also start at its now higher £200 price.
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