As living proof of this, my wife and I first met Tangos in a beginners’ class 6 years ago; we still all go to the same class and have even gone away for a couple of dancing breaks together.
For what it is worth, my two penn’orth on whether or not to start dancing classes:
1. Have a quick think about what you want to get out of it. Broadly I reckon this’ll fall into one of the following categories:
• You are looking for a new and enjoyable thing to do regularly with your OH (this was us).
• You want to impress family and friends at weddings.
• You want to go to regular social dances (are there any in your area?).
• You want to collect some charming plastic medals to go on your mantelpiece.
• You are competitive and have aspirations of strutting your stuff at Blackpool.
• You just wanna dance.
• You want an excuse to wear sparkly stuff.
Once you’ve decided on the above, this may point you towards whether you want a group or individual lessons and which dances you may wish to focus on (for example, our nearest social dance never plays pasos or VWs, and only the occasional samba and AT). For some, salsa or Rock n Roll may be better options than latin/ballroom.
2. Partner. In my experience, couples that come as ‘partners’ tend to stick with classes longer than those that come as singletons. That said, because I dance exclusively with my wife it terrifies me to have to lead anyone else. Being able to dance with anyone is a great skill to have. But married couples definitely argue more in practice than non-marrieds.
3. Vision. When dancing socially, the more important thing is spatial awareness as to where you are in the room and who is coming up behind you rather than vision per se. As long as you can see well enough not to bump into people you’ll be fine.
4. Rhythm. I do not have a musical bone in my body and have always struggled with rhythm, but undoubtedly I’m better now than I was when I started though I still take longer to get going than many, i.e. I will have to count several bars in my head before I set off, whereas my wife could go instinctively and immediately. This is more frustrating for her than me, as she can also see the couples piling up behind me over my shoulder. Although you would think that an ability to move in time to music was paramount, I regularly see couples dancing to their own personal rhythm, and if it works for them, hey, who am I?
5. Embarrassment. I’m a typical middle-aged male Brit whose hips had never previously moved out of alignment for fear of looking the slightest bit camp. It took quite a few months, but now I’ll gyrate along with the best of them (though I think our teacher realises that teaching us men to shimmy may be a step too far!).
6. Manage expectations. After 3 months you are not going to dance like Harry Judd. But in one aspect you’ll be better – because you will be probably be able to lead a basic waltz and cha cha cha while he can only follow a set routine to set music. Even after a year you will probably only have had 50 hours of group teaching whereas Strictly contestants get 6 hours a day of concentrated one to one. But it does come – I also am no Harry Judd, but I can now reasonably competently guide my wife around a floor in waltz, tango, quickstep, cha cha cha, rumba, jive and (on a good day) foxtrot. We only rarely do VW, and I won’t do paso or samba in public (tbh it is far nicer to stand back and admire Tangos’s samba).

But at the end of the day: Give it a go, you’ll never know until you try. Worst case, a few people who you’ve never met before and will never see again will have seen you try. And they’ll be concentrating so hard on themselves they won’t notice anything ‘foolish’ you may do.

Wow what a full response thank you - there is plenty for me to think about and i will over the next few days and i will try to give your thoughts a considered response that i hope does your post justice

Agree about inspiring music for a gifted creative dancer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=874ZvIQMxmQ

Holly and Artem dancing AT to Por Una Cabeza with violin (Itzhak Perlman?). Spotlights shining upwards made it nigh impossible to see activities in the band. Did anybody attend the semi-final? There was a pizzicato passage for massed violinists, and no way was there room on the bandstand for them.

Conclusion -- a CD was playing, not the band. The band leader on the right kept turning over sheet music and conducting, probably to amuse himself. There were other dances too where I suspect a CD was playing, mostly Artem's dances.

I have heard of WDSF (renamed from IDSF) once suggesting a Final should feature one couple on the floor at a time, which should make possible music of personal choice. However a Final round with 6 couples would take ten times as long.

I would not say it would never happen, never say never?

Let's hope we can do another one soon Alex! (Maybe not the Picadilly this time, I can't take no more Sequence!)


Ditto!


You mean to tell me your GOLD MEDAL isn't made of same? I thought they got a bit nicer after that beginners social medal we all did.

Me and hubbie wrote of the medal thing because it is quite expensive to do the exams, plus it made us quite stressed out, and we figured we were doing it for enjoyment. But we don't suffer in terms of what steps we learn because we don't do medals.


I still dream of the sparkles... not much call for it though unless you do go in for comps!

Our school does have an annual ball, I get to dress up a bit posh for that though! Most schools will hold some kind of socials and parties, might be a carrot to tempt Mrs Leftfeet2??


Snort chuckle! And some of those perhaps more than others!


It does give us ladies a good giggle though! In a nice way


You're great at foxtrot. Also, Harry can't say he's got his plastic Gold medal, can he?!


Ahh, thank you x


Very wise words!

Well spotted Soulmate! Very sneaky of them, Getting Dave Arch to pretend he was conducting!


Would be nice though!

If WDSF have suggested it, then it's sure never to happen at a REAL competition !

I value the time you took to write the information/ your experience AlexR on post Number 251
Thank you

if I continue to make a habit of coming on DS the next thing I need to learn is how to cut and paste parts of a previous quote – In the meantime I have cut and pasted your post on a word doc so I will not miss any of the points you have made and the spell check helps me to be a least a little more literate.

The depth that you went into was thought provoking and your points are still not settled in my head but it would be rude not to give your effort some early attention/response


Point 1 has seven (is your real name Len) thoughts - frankly far beyond what I had considered to date but I expect these thing turn out to be quite fluid as ability becomes apparent
My initial thought is until November I was watching strictly as a Sat evening TV show for entertainment – almost anti come dancing if you like and particularly enjoyed the John seargent debacle.

I discovered DS and the SCD forum mid November (ish) and found that reading the posts enhanced my enjoyment of the show

I seem to like in particular the comfortable knowledgeable threads some where I have been readily acceptable some for a good reason ( I suspect my blessed millstone the increasing addictive curiosity thread) a little bit warily.

This techie thread is one the non appreciation, warm and tranquil, & norty step to give some examples

It is from reading them I have realised that if I attended some form of dance class I might better understand their conversations and also get more from the TV show in having a better idea at what their looking at

I have no idea what a flekle (I hope that’s right it probable isn’t my spell check is highlighting it and offering the alternative as freckle) for example and many seem to moan about the camerawork in that some of the time they cant see the footwork – Clearly at the moment that isn’t an issue for me but I can see if I understood what the were looking for it gives another reason for enjoying what I am seeing

Point2
I have no desire to do this with anyone other than my OH - all the reasons you state are very sound but the other factor in the equation of course is the recession means disposable income isn’t what it was. and to justify even a part of what we allocate for a social life for one of us to enjoy I don’t think would be fair

Point3

Although I don’t know till try I see (no pun was intended) this as the main issue -spaceial awareness is a problem for me, when I let it be, because my right eye is redundant anything in real life come from that side of me is not seen .I learnt this very quickly eons ago when at school and got into a very brief fight and got hit very hard from that direction and gave in I thought wisely with hindsight. – I haven’t thought about it before , I guess I do something to compensate for it.
Therefore I am sure you can see until I know I can sort that in a quicker moving environment I don’t feel able to decide anything

Point 4
Is very encouraging for me (thank you) but of course I don’t know if my response to point three would have a bearing on this

Point 5
I don’t think I am worried about embarrassment my posts on SCD in general I think bear testament to that I am unafraid of making mistakes isn’t that how you learn.

Point 6

I see that is good advice I am in sales (for a living) and managing people’s expectations is part of selling and aftercare but it doesn’t hurt to be reminded for oneself

I am working on my OH - who is still reluctant I have started to wonder if this is some kind of protective of me thing that I think perceptive partners have, in that because I am reluctant to drive much of a distance in the dark now and am no longer the boy racer in the daytime her real reason might be not wanting me to be disappointed

So I am not in control of the time frame of when I have a go – I just need to work out a form of words that leads to a more worthwhile discussion when I have her full attention

I am sorry it’s a bit of a read but in fairness so what your considerate thoughts Thank you for that and everyone else who has offered their observations too – You have all encouraged me no end
I hope an update is on the card sooner rather than later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4eUF79t5s

Kara's fabulous paso. The orchestral music included an organ whose sound would do a church proud. Dave Arch's singer standing in front of the band was real enough, but singing in sync I suspect to an orchestral backing CD edited to exactly 90 seconds like all other Strictly tunes.

Again it was hard to see the band, but at 1:40 into the clip there was a dead giveaway where Dave Arch with a disinterested look completely stopped "conducting" while the CD played on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LRuX3QTPOM

Holly's paso with exciting Spanish paso/flamenco music. Brightly lit, no question that the band was playing, and very well too. I have no objections at all to using CDs when necessary to enrich Strictly performances.

Just as the music was outstanding for all three dances, so were the costumes. Artem the instigator evidently excels in everything, not just in botafogos.

A hundred years ago Diaghilev brought into his Ballets Russes Company: Nijinski, Fokine, Balanchine, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Cocteau, Picasso, Matisse, Coco Chanel. In other words excellence in everything. Mrs Tango Tim would have liked it.

I don't think cost should necessarily be a factor as far as dance lessons are concerned leftfeet. Some dance lessons are very cheap nowadays and some dance schools actually offer a free first private lesson.
As far as issues are concerned regarding the sight in your right eye, maybe your wife could help you navigate round other dancers. Or alternatively you could choose a latin dance that doesn't necessarily need to travel round the room (e.g. salsa, jive, rumba, cha cha).

But they're very nicely crafted in Taiwan!
And of course, one of the things about learning to dance is that your objectives can change over time, as you learn more about yourself and how you want to be.

[quote=Vivacious Lady;55754798]I don't think cost should necessarily be a factor as far as dance lessons are concerned leftfeet. Some dance lessons are very cheap nowadays and some dance schools actually offer a free first private lesson.
As far as issues are concerned regarding the sight in your right eye, maybe your wife could help you navigate round other dancers. Or alternatively you could choose a latin dance that doesn't necessarily need to travel round the room (e.g. salsa, jive, rumba, cha cha).
bib
Cost by itself isnt a factor in the sense of I think it would be expensive
It was more a reflection of maintaining the harmony in my relationship with OH we both work and contribute- learnt from one past unilatral decision = bad news on the harmony front- Its the classic
"its not the money , its the principal"
back against the wall senario

Your point about movement and my eyesight is great I am convinced I am worrying to much about it

Never have before when it come to my eyes - must be some un realised manufactured excuse

Thank you

I am not sure I understand the issue you have with eyesight. I also have only one functioning eye, my left eye is defunct but the other one at the moment is passing the eyesight requirements for driving etc. I do have a cataract forming in it and I cant be referred for it removing until I can no longer pass the driving requirement with the help of lenses. That time will produce an interesting scenario as I will be virtually blind for a time.
I dance without even thinking about the eyesight, having only one functioning eye isnt and has never been a problem. My dance teacher knows about the problem which could be looming and it is coming along quite fast as I am changing lenses every few months.I might have more problem getting to my dance studio than actually dancing, we shall see ( or not as the case may be)
The eyesight shouldnt be a problem unless you want it to be,

Well one can’t get a better insight (oh dear –no pun intended ) than what you outline above

Yet another typical example of how some of the better threads are full of warm knowledgeable people with experience of life

Up to know I haven’t thought much about my eyes I have always just on with it so the only conclusion can be - being afraid to fail - which is nonsense

I wish you well in what will be an adjusting period I love your sense of humour and your practical attitude / aptitude – what you have written is remarkable and inspirational not just for me I suspect but other’s too

Thank you I am off to find the yellow pages

Does anyone know the correct definition af an 'assisted jump'?

I did a search but couldn't find one or rules relating to an assisted jump.

In the absence of a reply from experts, some material of possible interest from Alberto Torres' World Latin Dance Cup (mainly Salsa style), for December 2011 in Las Vegas, only its second year of staging, appearing to make no distinction about a girl jumping into a lift position:

http://worldlatindancecup.com/cupdivisions.html

Definition of a LIFT:
That point when both feet are off the ground, and weight is not self supported.

Definition of a DROP:
The point at which the head goes below your partner’s waist and weight is not self supported.

Definition of an AERIAL:.
The point at which both feet of one partner are off the ground due to the other partner and not maintaining contact with their partner.

LIFTS:
Cartwheels Or Any Similar Lifts or Tricks are permitted. Lifts are defined as any assisted movement whereby any partner is carried off the floor. Whether the feet are 2 inches off the floor or 10 feet, this type of assisted movement will still be considered a lift or trick. Tricks and trick combinations are expected to remain within the confines of salsa timing and or musicality of the routine.

TRICKS:
Any assisted movement whereby the movement cannot be balanced or performed without the assistance of the partner is considered to be a TRICK.

TRICK COMBINATIONS:
Multiple Positions (Non Cabaret Divisions):
Are okay in trick combinations but no more than 3 total positions may be achieved in any combination. However, there cannot be any stops during the combinations. Positions much consistently flow from one to the next, with no stops. If there is a stop, each position will be counted as a separate trick, and will count toward the 3 trick limit. No trick or trick combination can last more than two 8-counts (4 measures). One foot must remain on the floor at all times.

TURNS:
For all divisions: a maximum of four bars / 16 beats / 2 counts of 8 are allowed for continuous turns. More than this will result in a penalty off the final score. All preparations for turns and or checks must maintain basic timing. For the on 1 style, preps must occur on The 1-2 or the 5-6. For the on 2 style, preps must occur on the 2-3 or 6-7. Coming out of a turn sometimes preps can also start on 1 style: On 8 or on 4, and on 2 style- on 1 and on 5.

CONTINUOUS TURNS:
Multiple / Continuous turns such as multiple turns in one spot, touch and go style turns, or pot stirrers / corkscrews cannot last longer than two 8 counts and cannot happen more than two times in the routine. If this is not the case points will be deducted by the main judge.

Stops / freezes, What is a stop? A full stop of the legs but movements in the body.

WHAT IS A FREEZE?:
A full stop of the legs and no body movement (like a pause). Dancers cannot maintain an extended stop or freeze position for more Than one 8 count. Extended stops or freezes cannot happen more than Two times in the routine. So as its only allowed to stop or freeze two Times in the routine from 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. You can do this only two times during the whole routine. If you do this more than two times, points will be deducted by the head judge. If you decide to stop or freeze for less than a 8 count it’s still counted as a freeze or stop. But there will be no point deduction by the head judge but the other judges might give you a lesser score in choreography if he or she thinks that there were to many stops or freezes in the routine. Dancers cannot maintain an extended stop or freeze position for more than one 8-count (2 measures). Extended stops or freeze’s cannot happen more than two times in the routine.

18 more to go night all

I found this but it is from a US dancesport website. It talks about assisted lifts, leaps and jumps. From what I've read on dance forums the paper was a bit contentious and prompted some subsequent discussion about rules and whether they were too vague in distinguishing between the various moves. So I don't know if they were taken on board. But nevertheless it does give some backgound information.
http://prodancersfederation.org/web/...Mead_email.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4eUF79t5s

Here is that pleasing, spectacular jump in Kara's paso when the audience went awwwwwwww. Darcey did a similar jump in her ballroom Cheek to Cheek, one bionic knee and all.


Thanks to Vivacious for the rule quoted above.
Kara is lightweight and athletic and no doubt can jump quite high. But if she can jump as high as in this paso without discreet rocket propulsion from Artem's arm then Kara ought to enter the London Olympics high jump. That jump would be deemed a lift by the rule quoted above even though Craig turned a blind eye markswise.

All very enjoyable for solo on the Strictly floor.

On a competition floor with up to 25 couples a flying leap like that slamming into another flying leap from another girl combining the strength of 4 dancers would result in an ambulance call. No doubt kaycee can thrill us with stories of spectacular collisions not least in the paso, including the ka-pow she does not remember as she was knocked unconscious.

Thanks Soulmate61 and Vivacious Lady for that information.

It does seem to be difficult to locate the actual rules for ballroom dancing, which is a bit of a surprise to me. I remember when they were on tour last year, as part of the judges pantomime Matt would read out a supposed excerpt from the 'rules' which said that if your feet were off the ground for less than one beat of the music its not a lift. That PDF you referenced Vivacious Lady also mentioned the duration of time off the ground, but a beat can vary from less than 1/3 second to almost a second.

I have seen mention of an assisted lift and an assisted jump.

A jump from feet to feet with no assistance is easy and I think allowed?

But a dancer is usually in contact with their partner, so an assisted jump could be like vaulting over a gate, where you put one hand on the gate to make it both much higher and longer duration.

The partner (unlike a gate) might also be moving in a favourable direction during the jump, which could extend it even more.

Without an exact definition though, its impossible to know what is allowed.

The gravity rule --
what goes up,
must come down.

Partner-assisted jump reaches higher and looks better.
Partner-assisted long stay in mid-air also looks better, regardless of how the girl got there.

Strictly allows 2 lifts in AS not 3, presumably to ensure a level playing field for all contestants. Serious competitions seemingly do not like lifts for safety reasons on a crowded floor, focusing on the keyword "partner-assisted".

I take it they don't like Russell's canon then.

Why do you say that SCD allows only 2 lifts in the AS?

Harry's AS in the final contains 3 clear lifts - at around 55 secs, 1.25 and 1.40 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba2Z5Faozqw

From memory the judges gave it a combined 39 points.

Yeah but when AS was introduced into Strictly it was only 2 lifts allowed (remember Kellygate?) but for the last couple of years (at least) they have allowed 3.

That was evidently another conspiracy then.

AS on Strictly has always had an allowance of 2 lifts permitted, no more, unless anyone remembers a rule amendment announced. Not the first time 4 judges made it up as they went along, disagreeing among themselves.

Brendan partnering Kelly Brook put in 3 AS lifts instead of 2, and for his pains had his likely marks 10-10-10-10 reduced by judges to 8-8-8-10, with Craig reading the Riot Act.

Kara's rumba in a pink dress was reduced from 10-10-10-10 to 9-10-10-10 by Craig complaining about the unintentional lift with Kara's toes barely losing contact with the floor.

The god of dance choked on his wine that night.
I pulled my hair out, thank god there is a lot of it.

That would have been the same conspiracy, given that this was the same dance where Craig pointed out that Harry had still not corrected his armography, yet Len awarded a 10 despite having deducted points for that in two of Harry's earlier dances.

At least Craig is consistent in deducting points for any instance of neither foot being in contact with the floor. One could argue that both Rachel and Chelsee were deserving of 40 for their Rumbas were it not for the 'lifts'.

No conspiracies. Craig and Len's definition of correct hold is different (armography if you're Craig talking about latin dances ). As far as I can remember Harry had a great topline and hold for most of his ballroom. Len did tell him to correct his hold near the beginning of the series, and by the final it was a lot better. Len is far less worried about a thumb and finger being at the 'wrong angle' as long as the hand looks neat and tidy overall and the hold is good with a straight back and wide frame. Craig is far more picky about hand and finger placement.

When the American Smooth was introduced, the maximum number of lifts was two. For the past two series' the standard number seems to have been three lifts for AS. Since Craig hasn't moaned about illegal lifts in all the American Smooth I can only assume that the powers that be told them that now 3 lifts were allowed. The same has happened in salsa where lifts are now allowed when they did not used to be allowed.

Harry did indeed appear to be an excellent ballroom dancer when he was in hold.

His woeful armography was evidenced in the way he used (or didn't use) his hands when he wasn't in hold.

Len pulled him up about his hands in one of his early dances, and repeated his criticism in his analysis of Harry's Rumba in Week 10 of 12.

And I defy anybody to look at the American Smooth Harry delivered in the final and argue that he had corrected the fault.

From memory, Craig's observation was along the lines of "If it wasn't the final there's a plethora of things I could say about your hands".