Katie, hopefully someone can help. I know zilch about the salsa, and couldn't venture an opinion on the relative merits of the foxtrots since in 2 of those the celebs were men. I was interested by the fact that Len was impressed by Kara's one heel turn!!! Presumably that means that they don't usually do any! Just to put in context, as a relatively inexperienced dancer i had to do 6 per circuit (2 circuits) for my silver exam. Mind you I did have weeks to prepare, unlike Kara.

Hello, hope you don't mind me adding a post to this thread which says nothing useful at all

I just want to be able to bookmark it so that I can find it again, as I love reading posts from people who actually know something about the technical aspects of dancing, unlike me.

I may not post here again, but I will definitely be reading it

Oh ok, how long does it take to learn how to do an impressive develope?

the actual step is easy, I learnt it in one lesson as part of a routine, but to do an 'impressive' one would take longer, as you need to develop a lot of strength in your hip/back/core/leg in order to make it look controlled and elegant, rather than just hoiking your leg in the air oh and impressive flexibility too. I seem to remember Ali doing it rather well, as she has a ballet background so was very flexible.

I think some people (me!) would never be able to do a good one kochspostulates.

Apart from some of the questions around the choreography on Saturday (exactly what was the point of that horrible ending to Aliona/Matt's dance) Is everyone ok with tangoesque foxtrots, or am I being a bit fuddy duddy in wanting foxtrotesque foxtrots and tangoesque tangos?

Given the reluctance to do the basic foxtrot steps (kudos to Kara and Artem in having a go and producing something quite good once they'd got over the intro), should SCD set some minimum basic element in the same way that DOI does, or would that be interfering with the artistic interpretation and choreography too much?

I thought Tina and Jared's foxtrot looked a bit North American in style. - although not exactly American Smooth since it obviously didn't have all the elements.

Interestingly the judges did highlight the footwork a bit more this time (e.g. giving Goldie credit for working at it).

If that's the case then I am also an old fuddy duddy!
Each dance has such strong characteristics of their own, which are what make them so unique and wonderful - the main thing about the foxtrot for me is the smoooooothness of it so to give it a tango mood is all wrong in my book!

I think that having required elements would be a good idea, as long as it is kept simple - for foxtrot, feather step should me absolute minimum! Surely you can't even start a foxtrot without it?!

Yes, I was thinking feather step, reverse turn and feather finish (which is I thnk what Kara and Artem did if I remember rightly - there was at least a reverse turn). That wouldn't take up much of the dance and would still leave some artistic licence for more showy choreography.

hi all,
I made notes on each dance but haven't time to write them up at the moment.
I am not a fan of the tango foxtrots. Foxtrot should have that 1930s/1940s glamour about it and be smooth and gliding. Tango is sharp and staccato . The two dances are opposites of each other.
It was a hideous ending to Matt and Aliona's foxtrot. Totally inappropriate to the time of night (anyone imagine a child going 'mummy why did he jump on her and they roll around the floor like that?')
Kara and Artem - proper classic foxtrot (though to music with a tango beat behind it ) and she did do a very good heel turn. I noted that!

I like the dance the retain their own characters as well. If a waltz is like a rumba and a foxtrot is like a tango, then where do you go once you hit the rumba and the tango? It allows for much less variation between dances IMO if the characters of the dances change (much as I did enjoy Scott's waltz and Matt's foxtrot). I also think it challenges the celebs less if they do it that way because there's less variation between the dances. If Scott now does a tango-foxtrot and Matt does a rumba-waltz, how do we know if that was an artistic choice or if it's because neither of them are good at protraying Disney-like romance?

I would also like to see a technical element in each dance, even if it's just the basic step that you would learn in your first or second lesson. It would be nice to have something specific to watch out for and to be able to compare.

I agree with all of this.

No need for the ending to Matt's routine and while I did enjoy the routine as a whole, I'd have liked it a lot more if I hadn't spent the first half thinking "Why has he grown a beard? Why isn't he smiling?" I did like the way Aliona's dress moved though.

The first foxtrot that I liked the feel of was Tina and Jared's, and even then it was more a halfway house between an American Smooth and a foxtrot. At least it seemed like the right era though.

And yes, I did like Kara and Artem's foxtrot, though I'd have preferred it to different music. I also spotted the heel turn and was duly impressed. I wonder if most of the celebs don't do them and so they specifically targetted her feet at that point or if it was just a co-incidence that it was captured on camera.

The salsas were just as bad music-wise though. Scott and Natalie were not dressed as salsa dancers and the music felt oddly slow to me, though I think it was just the lack of a real salsa beat. I won't comment on Gavin's choreography as truthfully I don't remember it well enough to know if I'd have liked it had it been danced by another couple to different music, but the impression I got from it overall was of agression, and I think that was the music as much as Gavin's rendition of the dance.

I remember Len commenting on Natalie Cassidy's reverse wave (although I hadn't come across the step a year ago). That would have had to have incorporated a heel turn, although I have to admit I find it difficult to imagine Natalie managing to do that step.

Can anyone explain to me what Kara was doing wrong with her index finger that Craig pointed out? These are the little details that only a dancer would know.

I would imagine it would be hard for a male pro to see where the female celeb is placing her fingers without dancing very closely in front of a mirror and Artem missed that small detail.

I am glad her footwork was good and Len pointed it out. I love it when Len points out proper technique.

I tuned in just as Matt and Aliona started their routine so missed the introduction. Even as a former competitive dancer, I spent most of it trying to work out whether they were doing a foxtrot or a tango. I would have preferred something a bit more traditional and not quite so exaggerated from Matt.

Have to disagree with you about Tina and Jared. It was unquestionably an American Smooth not a foxtrot. OK, it wasn't a very good American Smooth because it didn't have any lifts but half of it was out of hold so it wasn't a foxtrot. Normally Len would have slated someone for this so can't understand why he didn't.

Some of the music choices this year in general have been appalling. The show is too busy trying to be hip and trendy in its music selections and in doing so is spoiling the character of the dances, not to mention making it incredibly difficult for the inexperienced celebs by forcing them to dance to something totally lacking in any obvious beat basically resembling what they are doing

Not that's fine. I agree with you actually. I was being very cautious in my criticism because I don't know the AS very well. The hold was a bit informal as well I thought - a bit like a social dance and not much contrabody motion.

As a former competitive dancer, do you know the answer to Lili's question about the Kara's index finger? I thought maybe Craig was making a lot of fuss about not much?

I didn't notice it as I was totally captivated with their routine but, if I were to guess based on what would be a very common error, it would be that it was sticking up in the air due to an awkward placement of her hand in hold.

So it's the quickstep and rumba next Saturday.

If SCD were ever to introduce a required element into these dances (like in DOI), what steps would people like to see the celebs do? I guess the answer is a bit less obvious than in the foxtrot where the basics (feather step, reverse turn, feather finish, three step etc.) are so often absent.

On DWTS Len often berates the pro's for not incorporating enough elements of a particular dance into the routine. Especially Derek Hough is notorious in that respect.
It would be nice if there were minimum requirements on Strictly.

@Vivacious Lady
Woodpeckers in the quickstep. Can't do a proper quickstep without.

Hello experts - so far most of the comments I've read on here are about choreography, music and costume - which I presume the actual contestants have little say in. What I'd really like your expertise on is how you think the different contestants performed what they were asked to perform. Who is gifted, technically adept etc. Would love to hear your views.

Rita, hopefully some experts can give their opinions. I'm not even familiar with the woodpecker step in the quickstep referred to by breppo (do you have a link breppo?) However in my non-expert opinion I liked Kara and Artem because it looked beautiful and they also did some of the basic steps that you would expect to see in any foxtrot.

Woodpeckers are a classic step but not really a required element! I would go even more basic than that, such as quarter turn to right, progressive chasse, spin turn - the sort of steps you would learn as a beginner. You can get round the room just with these three steps but there are technical elements such as footwork eg. Toe on the chasse, and body positioning that would differentiate a great dancer from an average one.

I'm a bit late to the party, but f anyone has questions about dance, I could answer a few of them if you like?

My background is classical ballet, followed by flamenco (5 years) and then I studied & taught American Social, which included ballroom, Latin, East and West coast swing and mambo. I then studied Colombian salsa, followed by Puerto Rican and then Cuban salsa and son (in Cuba - where else ). I have now been studying Argentine tango (mostly in Europe and with visiting pros) for the last 8 years.

I can dance, but am not expert in, English ballroom. It's much like American but US style is freer and a bit sexier (!) esp. in Latin. I love quickstep and foxtrot, but loathe ballroom samba and tango I'm afraid. It's so far removed from the real thing it just bugs me! As for the 'ballroom' salsa! Aaarghhh!

Years of teaching means I can usually spot where someone is going wrong, what their body faults/problems are and whether they have great potential or not. Hope I help I am a nit picking, pain in the rear though about dance You have been warned

Ask away

Sofakat, you are very welcome (even though you're not keen on ballroom tango which I love ). We've had some posters asking for expert opinion on various aspects (which I can't give but some of the others on this thread can). The more experts, we have then the better!

Northernsoul, I agree that the steps you mention are one ones you would expect to see in a good competent quickstep. ( I had wondered about making a V6 a required element since it isn't too advanced, but would not be too difficult for the casual viewer to spot, if it were demo'd first like on dancing on ice).

Edit: Actually thinking about it all of the discussions on this thread so far have been about Saturday's foxtrot. So it would be nice to have your opinion on the salsas we saw, sofakat For example most people liked James's and Pamela's (I did) but it was quite different in style to Natalie's and Scott's which also scored well. So how do you view them relatively?
Last edited by Vivacious Lady : 11-10-2010 at 19:03

OK .

James and Pamela's was the closest to a real salsa on Saturday night. James is one of the few pros who understands that the basic salsa step is kept small and neat (and right on the beat) and the movement should be from the waist down with a very strong, flexible torso. He also added some classic cuban turns which none of the others even knew. Pammy is good. She gets it.

The other pro who understands salsa basic is Natalie. I'd describe hers and Scott's routine as more of a New York/LA salsa - which tends to be more open and flashy than Colombian or Cuban (altho' Cuban can be wonderfully OTT with the really great dancers).

The key to great salsa is immaculate timing on the beat, being in tune with your partner (and keeping a very close circle between you), great control and very clean movements. The precision demanded is headache inducing. When you dance rueda it really counts. Mess up a beat and the whole group unravels

You can't mess about with salsa - even though it may seem abandoned. It isn't really

A while, unless you have had ballet training. You need strong legs and good control. It's not just about getting your leg up there, but keeping it up for a controlled graceful split second with nicely pointed toes!