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  • Strictly Come Dancing
Americanisation of Strictly
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*Laura*
23-10-2010
Last week I missed the show and have to confess that for the first time since I can remember I wasn't that bothered. I don't know what it is but, something is definitely missing for me. I've yet to watch one episode of ITT and if the main programme carries on like it is I doubt if I will go out of my way to watch it.
rossyrahrah
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“I wonder if thats the test we should use to test the 'gayness' of a potential boyfriend......how much they love Strictly Ballroom.”

Nah, that's just an indication of good taste. Although my current OH will moan all way through it if I make him watch it with me

Originally Posted by Ms_Conscrewed:
“Awesome But what's a murse? ”

Male nurse. I know, I know but I was only young...
Ms_Conscrewed
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by rossyrahrah:
“Nah, that's just an indication of good taste. Although my current OH will moan all way through it if I make him watch it with me



Male nurse. I know, I know but I was only young...”

My OH goes to see a neighbour when it's on. Pity he didn't do that this moring while I was trying to catch up with DWTS this morning.

Have to remember the murse thingy lol.
cunningham1471
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by Paace:
“How did this ridiculous idea come about that it's either entertaiment or dancing.

The best entertainment on SCD has come when the couples do a fantastic dance like Mark and Karen's AT, and Zoe and Ian's Tango etc. [/b]The foundation of SCD is couples trying to achieve perfection in dance. That is what made SCD such a success.”

However you seem to be missing the point. That is your opinion and what you AND so many other people enjoy, but there are equally as many people that either don't give a toss about the dancing and just want to be entertained, or they care about the dancing but know they don't have the knowledge to judge someone on how good they are.
Craig Len and Bruno come out with a lot of blah, blah ,blah all of which is meaningless to me. I have no idea what these moves and steps are called. Did he/she point their toes enough? How the hell do I know? Yes I can rewind it on my Sky+ to check to make sure, but will I do that? Nope!
I and people like me will vote for the dance or the person we like the most. That's it and that is how it is intended to be. This show is not and never has been made as a serious dance competition no matter what people such as yourself, the judges or the BBC may say.

Quote:
“If the producers think that the dancing is not all that important, and gimmicks and fooling about are what the public want, they are mistaken and will lose a big slice of their core audience.”

This is where you are getting it so totally wrong. as I previously said the series has never been made as a serious dance contest. The dancing is second place to the fun. When you look at who has been on each series the clues are there.

S1: David Dickenson
How likely is it that this man who at that time was 63 years old was going to be able to do all the fast stuff like the Jitterbug, the Quick Step etc and not look stupid and comical? In the same year you had

S2: Ester Rantzen (64) The same question. Unlike someone like Felicity Kendall Ester isn't an slim women that does yoga etc is she?
S3: Gloria Hunniford (65) Dennis Taylor (59) Bill Turnbull (49)
S4: Nicolas Owen (59) Jimmy Tarbuck (66)
S5: Stephanie Beacham (60) Willie Thorne (53)
S6: Gillian Taylforth (53) Don Warrington (55) Cheri Lunghi (54) John Sergeant (64)
S7) Lynda Bellingham (61) Jo Wood (54)

S8: Paul Daniels (72) Anne Widdecome (63) Peter Shilton (61)

What do all of them have in common. They are all old(er), they all had their routines laughed at and mocked and they were all (exculding Widdecome and Shilton so far) got eliminated early in the competition.

The oldest contestant to make the final three is Lesley Garrett in series one and she came third aged 49.
Interesting that she made it to third in one of the two series before the rule change when the judges could save someone and it stopped being least votes goes.

If this is an serious dance competition then why do they even bother having old(er) people on that obviously are going to struggle with fast dances and at best look amusing, more likely bloody ridiculous?

The producers know that the public love laughing at people trying to do something they are rubbish at or can't do very well. The Generation Game was built on it.
The "serious" dance show is SYTYCD. That wasn't the instant success they were hoping for but are bringing it back anyway.
This show always was and always will be an entertainment show, not an dance competition. the clue is even in the term they use. "If you want to save ...... then call ...." or "if ...... is/was your favourite then call...." What they don't say is who do you think is the best couple or did the best dance
BuddyBontheNet
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“This sadly is quite a true image many people have of the ballroom world, and it largely the fault of the BBC who televised the old Come Dancing show, in the way they did. There were some excellent dancers on that show - Matt Cutler, Ian, Karen Hardy, to name but 3, but it was the way the show was presented that caused the problem. Old codgers such as Terry Wogan making crass remarks and sending it up in such a way that it stuck.

It is also true that the "powers that be" in the ballroom world are to a large extent dinosaurs who can't seem to move on ..... there is a saying in America "When it's lunch time in New York, it's 1952 in Blackpool"!!!

Top ballroom dancers themselves work really hard to get recognised as the athletes they are, but it is difficult in UK where ballroom dance is still regarded as a "silly bit of old-fashioned fun". Different on the Continent, where it is regarded as, and respected as they sport it is.

Can't agree that ballroom dancers are necessarily a cliquey lot though. Most like to watch all other types of dance - ballet, flamenco, street, etc etc etc ... because they appreciate the skill involved, but whereas ballroom is competitive, ballet is more an art form.”

If there is one thing that shines through to me from watching SCD or DWTS, it is that the pros are athletes. Plus after watching the pro tour, I was amazed and the level of fitness required. Even Sue Judd (BBC Wardrobe) said that when she first joined the show it was as a stylist and had a steep learning curve when it came to dressing the couples in sportswear.
Jan2555*GG*
23-10-2010
Thats very true actually if it was just a dance programme every celeb would have been under 40. Ofcourse Pamela is the exception ofcourse being OLDER (much older) and a good dancer,.
BuddyBontheNet
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“I wonder if thats the test we should use to test the 'gayness' of a potential boyfriend......how much they love Strictly Ballroom.
Originally Posted by rossyrahrah:
“Nah, that's just an indication of good taste. Although my current OH will moan all way through it if I make him watch it with me

Male nurse. I know, I know but I was only young...”
”

Whew! I've been married for almost 25 years!

Anyway, nearly time for the best show on TV at the moment!
ianswaiting
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by cunningham1471:
“However you seem to be missing the point. That is your opinion and what you AND so many other people enjoy, but there are equally as many people that either don't give a toss about the dancing and just want to be entertained, or they care about the dancing but know they don't have the knowledge to judge someone on how good they are.
Craig Len and Bruno come out with a lot of blah, blah ,blah all of which is meaningless to me. I have no idea what these moves and steps are called. Did he/she point their toes enough? How the hell do I know? Yes I can rewind it on my Sky+ to check to make sure, but will I do that? Nope!
I and people like me will vote for the dance or the person we like the most. That's it and that is how it is intended to be. This show is not and never has been made as a serious dance competition no matter what people such as yourself, the judges or the BBC may say.



This is where you are getting it so totally wrong. as I previously said the series has never been made as a serious dance contest. The dancing is second place to the fun. When you look at who has been on each series the clues are there.

S1: David Dickenson
How likely is it that this man who at that time was 63 years old was going to be able to do all the fast stuff like the Jitterbug, the Quick Step etc and not look stupid and comical? In the same year you had

S2: Ester Rantzen (64) The same question. Unlike someone like Felicity Kendall Ester isn't an slim women that does yoga etc is she?
S3: Gloria Hunniford (65) Dennis Taylor (59) Bill Turnbull (49)
S4: Nicolas Owen (59) Jimmy Tarbuck (66)
S5: Stephanie Beacham (60) Willie Thorne (53)
S6: Gillian Taylforth (53) Don Warrington (55) Cheri Lunghi (54) John Sergeant (64)
S7) Lynda Bellingham (61) Jo Wood (54)

S8: Paul Daniels (72) Anne Widdecome (63) Peter Shilton (61)

What do all of them have in common. They are all old(er), they all had their routines laughed at and mocked and they were all (exculding Widdecome and Shilton so far) got eliminated early in the competition.

The oldest contestant to make the final three is Lesley Garrett in series one and she came third aged 49.
Interesting that she made it to third in one of the two series before the rule change when the judges could save someone and it stopped being least votes goes.

If this is an serious dance competition then why do they even bother having old(er) people on that obviously are going to struggle with fast dances and at best look amusing, more likely bloody ridiculous?

The producers know that the public love laughing at people trying to do something they are rubbish at or can't do very well. The Generation Game was built on it.
The "serious" dance show is SYTYCD. That wasn't the instant success they were hoping for but are bringing it back anyway.
This show always was and always will be an entertainment show, not an dance competition. the clue is even in the term they use. "If you want to save ...... then call ...." or "if ...... is/was your favourite then call...." What they don't say is who do you think is the best couple or did the best dance”

I don't remember Cherie Lunghi being mocked - she was very good. Also, I don't think that being young or old automatically equates to being good or bad. Christopher Parker is probably the worst dancer ever to appear on the show and yet he was also one of the youngest.

Incidentally, they do also say that it is the lowest combined judges and audience score that is eliminated and it would be my belief that the judges score on dance performance so it does have a significant importance.
Doktor Dances
23-10-2010
That's a great post, and sorry to sound like this, but shoots out of the water many of the arguments in this frankly tedious thread.

SCD is not - cannot - be a pure dancing contest. If it was, like Come Dancing, it would be hidden in the graveyard slot, possibly on BBC Four, and probably featuring the very best from the absloutely least worst affordable dancers.

Nobody gets what they want when it comes to the BBC. Why? Because the BBC is publically funded, and in the current climate especially, they cannot bend and twist with every pressure group demand. No "cult" show will ever be how you want it, because there are millions of "casual" audience members who have to be entertained as well as dozens of people on a message board.

Be thankful for small mercies - the BBC has its life guaranteed for 6 more years. It could have been a lot worse. The SCD of today IS different, it IS more DWTS and I can fully understand how people feel about certain quirks not working because these things often infect some of my favourite shows.

But one or two niggles is far better than no show at all, right?
BuddyBontheNet
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by Doktor Dances:
“That's a great post, and sorry to sound like this, but shoots out of the water many of the arguments in this frankly tedious thread.

SCD is not - cannot - be a pure dancing contest. If it was, like Come Dancing, it would be hidden in the graveyard slot, possibly on BBC Four, and probably featuring the very best from the absloutely least worst affordable dancers.

Nobody gets what they want when it comes to the BBC. Why? Because the BBC is publically funded, and in the current climate especially, they cannot bend and twist with every pressure group demand. No "cult" show will ever be how you want it, because there are millions of "casual" audience members who have to be entertained as well as dozens of people on a message board.

Be thankful for small mercies - the BBC has its life guaranteed for 6 more years. It could have been a lot worse. The SCD of today IS different, it IS more DWTS and I can fully understand how people feel about certain quirks not working because these things often infect some of my favourite shows.

But one or two niggles is far better than no show at all, right?”

I think I love you!
ianswaiting
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by Doktor Dances:
“That's a great post, and sorry to sound like this, but shoots out of the water many of the arguments in this frankly tedious thread.

SCD is not - cannot - be a pure dancing contest. If it was, like Come Dancing, it would be hidden in the graveyard slot, possibly on BBC Four, and probably featuring the very best from the absloutely least worst affordable dancers.

Nobody gets what they want when it comes to the BBC. Why? Because the BBC is publically funded, and in the current climate especially, they cannot bend and twist with every pressure group demand. No "cult" show will ever be how you want it, because there are millions of "casual" audience members who have to be entertained as well as dozens of people on a message board.

Be thankful for small mercies - the BBC has its life guaranteed for 6 more years. It could have been a lot worse. The SCD of today IS different, it IS more DWTS and I can fully understand how people feel about certain quirks not working because these things often infect some of my favourite shows.

But one or two niggles is far better than no show at all, right?”

It doesn't shoot anything out of the water. This thread isn't about whether it is an entertainment show or a dancing competition but about the fact that the show has been changed to be more similar to the US version. You may disagree but IMO there was nothing wrong with the original version and the changes which have been made have not improved the viewing experience of the show.
cunningham1471
23-10-2010
Originally Posted by ianswaiting:
“I don't remember Cherie Lunghi being mocked - she was very good. Also, I don't think that being young or old automatically equates to being good or bad. Christopher Parker is probably the worst dancer ever to appear on the show and yet he was also one of the youngest.”

You are probably right about Cherie. I should have excluded her. Thanks for spotting that.

I think Quentin Wilson was worst than Chris Parker, who of course came second in the first series. One of the ones where the public decided each week, not the judges. Again proving the point that people vote for the people that may not be the best but either are entertaining while being bad or being bad but tries really hard.
cezzy
23-10-2010
I like most of the props! I know traditionalists may not like them, maybe I'm a rebel? There's a first time for everything I suppose...
martyboy
24-10-2010
Who is the better presenter: Bruce Forsythe or Tom Bergeron?

Who is the better co-presenter: giggly Tess or Brooke Burke?

Who is the better judge: Alesha or Carrie Ann Inaba?

Which series has the better (more expensive I know) support acts?

The faster SCD can become 'Americanised', the better the show will become.
Caramel Crunch
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by martyboy:
“Who is the better presenter: Bruce Forsythe or Tom Bergeron?

Who is the better co-presenter: giggly Tess or Brooke Burke?

Who is the better judge: Alesha or Carrie Ann Inaba?

Which series has the better (more expensive I know) support acts?

The faster SCD can become 'Americanised', the better the show will become.”


Tom Bergeron is fantastic. I would love him to take over from Brucie.
Lilystar
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by martyboy:
“Who is the better presenter: Bruce Forsythe or Tom Bergeron?

Who is the better co-presenter: giggly Tess or Brooke Burke?

Who is the better judge: Alesha or Carrie Ann Inaba?

Which series has the better (more expensive I know) support acts?

The faster SCD can become 'Americanised', the better the show will become.”

Now, that I would really disagree with. Brooke was a fantastic competitor, but she is rubbish as co-presenter. Tess, for me, is much better.
Jan2555*GG*
24-10-2010
Cant do with Brooke at all she was a great dancer but rubbish as 'Tess' I would have Carrie Ann in a heart beat I think she is great.

We dont Tom over here we have plenty of great presenters who could take over from Bruce but someone needs too.

And you missed out which show has Derek Hough
sofakat
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“This sadly is quite a true image many people have of the ballroom world, partly because unless people can get foreign tv programs, they are never likely to see "real" ballroom dancing on tv, as they can other dance forms.

Also the BBC did so much damage to the image of ballroom with the old Come Dancing show. There were some excellent dancers on that show - Matt Cutler, Ian, Karen Hardy, to name but 3, but the way the show was presented was a disgrace. Old codgers such as Terry Wogan making crass remarks and sending it up in such a way that it stuck.

The BBC also caused so much trouble when they were allowed to televise the UK Championships from Bournemouth, that the "powers-that-be" of the dance world, kicked them out and vowed "never again".

Top ballroom dancers themselves work really hard to get that image changed, and to be recognised as the athletes they are, but it is difficult in UK where ballroom dance is still regarded as a "silly bit of old-fashioned fun". Different on the Continent, etc.,where it is regarded as, and respected as the sport it is.”

Thank you for your intelligent and - as always - very considered view kaycee. I must admit all my dealings with ballroom dancers abroad have been so much fun - especially in America - but not here. It doesn't help that some of the views posted on these forums only confirm the outdated views.

You are one of the great exceptions to that, which is why I love to read your feedback
BuddyBontheNet
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by martyboy:
“...Who is the better co-presenter: giggly Tess or Brooke Burke?...
Originally Posted by Lilystar:
“Now, that I would really disagree with. Brooke was a fantastic competitor, but she is rubbish as co-presenter. Tess, for me, is much better.”
”

I agree. Brooke as a presenter is awful.
sofakat
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by martyboy:
“Who is the better presenter: Bruce Forsythe or Tom Bergeron?

Who is the better co-presenter: giggly Tess or Brooke Burke?

Who is the better judge: Alesha or Carrie Ann Inaba?

Which series has the better (more expensive I know) support acts?

The faster SCD can become 'Americanised', the better the show will become.”

Tom of course. No contest.
Neither Tess nor the limp Brook. Both are too stupid for words. bring back Samantha from DWTS.
Carrie Ann Inaba of course.
Where's Derek's name then? SCD needs a Hough to join the brilliant Natalie.
sofakat
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“I agree. Brooke as a presenter is awful.”

Brooke adds a whole new dimension to the description 'dumb'.
rickster1995
24-10-2010
tbh, last year i did kind of lose interest in strictly. i still caught up of a few of the performances on bbc i player and youtube but i didn't watch it live or anything really. i tended to go over to the x factor instead.

but this year im right back into it and im loving it !!!. i think this year has been fantastic so far and is probably my favourite year so far.
claire2281
24-10-2010
The last two series were pretty dire to be honest so thank goodness that the changes have refreshed it!

The increased ratings also strongly suggest that the public are enjoying this series much, much more.

The series had lost the entertainment factor for many, now that's returned. They've got to balance entertainment and dancing and I think they've finally got that right again.
tabithakitten
24-10-2010
Originally Posted by martyboy:
“Who is the better presenter: Bruce Forsythe or Tom Bergeron?

Who is the better co-presenter: giggly Tess or Brooke Burke?

Who is the better judge: Alesha or Carrie Ann Inaba?

Which series has the better (more expensive I know) support acts?

The faster SCD can become 'Americanised', the better the show will become.”

But which show has, until now, had the better celebrity dances - i.e. actual dances not "faffing about"? There are things that SCD could learn from DWTS but beggering about with the actual dance format to make it glitzy showbiz isn't one of them imo. What's special about the American Smooth or the showdance if the contestants can include lifts, props and out of hold moves every week?
Jan2555*GG*
24-10-2010
Carrie Ann deducts a point every time she sees an illegal lift .....she did it again this week.
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