Hello again twin!


I think that's debatable. Not every dance/couple on DWTS 'faffs about' or uses props and there are plenty of fabulous celeb dances on DWTS. In fact, I'd say the best AT I've seen a celeb dance since Ramps was on DWTS this year (you can watch it here).

SCD is overdosing on props because it is the first time they have been officially allowed, but at the end of the day what makes a dance good or bad on either show is the quality of the dancing.

Okay, I may have been overstating the case a bit but the issue was meant to be that none of the points the poster cited as apparent plusses, the glitzing up of the actual performances wasn't one of them.

Calm down with the excess, use it effectively and concentrate on the actual dance.

I really like the changes, it makes the show more fresh and interesting. Anyone bitching about how they dislike it are just killjoys who need to grow up.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realise that disliking something automatically meant that you had no sense of enjoyment and were immature. I shall know better in future. Or at least I will if I can "grow up".

I have no intention of growing up thank you. Unless it's disgracefully of course. Aged 53 and a quarter.

My philosophy is that while I may not like all the changes, quite frankly I'm pleased that people are watching SCD again and talking about it. I have loved the show right from the start and found the last two series plain boring: they started to take it all too seriously. Now it's back up there, getting great ratings and with a wonderful cast.

I can't help but think that lots of people were prepared to hate this series because theire favourite pros have gone, which is understandable.

well done you i got told to grow up on here too (not this forum) I just laughed at 48 there's just no hope for me, the best bit is that the person who said it is probably an awful lot younger than me.
I understand that this is a forum with different views but if we would all be a little more pleasant with one another this may help the debate along.
I like the changes and I like DWTS that does not give me the right to tell others they have to like them but it also doesn't give them the right to say I'm wrong.
The programme is much more watchable for me now and I enjoy the show very much. they are not necessarily Americanisations though just changes that make things a little slicker and make the poor dancers more entertaining for me

I applaud you! Excellent philosophy!

No, we aren't killjoys, we are people who have a view that is not the same as yours. If you can't accept that then perhaps it is you who needs to grow up.

What changes have they made:

1) schedule it much earlier so as not to clash with X Factor
2) have massive amounts of pre series marketing
3) sack half the pro dancers
4) demote half the pro dancers to a dance troupe that doesn't perform
5) hire a heap of new pro's
6) scrap the dance off
7) revamp the results reveal so it is done piecemeal
8) allow the couples to do loads of theatrics including the use of props etc

There are probably others but those are the ones I can immediately think of. So lets take them in turn:

1) This was just plain common sense - they made this mistake last year and it cost them dearly. By the time they changed it last year they had already lost a heap of their potential audience and it was too late to get them back.

2) Again very sensible - I rather liked that video of them being picked up at the bus stop by their pro partners

3, 4 and 5) Totally insane - they had a fantastic pool of pro dancers, some of the best in the world. The ones they have ditched seem to have been the best and most popular ones. The pro's they have replaced them with don't seem to be anywhere near their level of ability, especially Jared who seems totally inexperienced and out of his depth. Ditching the existing pro's hasn't in any way improved the show and the new pro's just highlight how good the ones they have replaced were.

6) I'm not that bothered about the dance off. Personally I would have preferred to keep it but it isn't that big a deal.

7) This makes the results show so incredibly dull :yawn: but then I don't have to suffer it as I check the spoiler

8) I can see the argument for allowing the couples to do a theatrical introduction and ending to their routines (say 10 seconds each) but they have taken it too far. Unicycles and suspension harnesses and that awful opening section from Patsy and Robin last week that used up half the time for the whole routine and was so repetitive that I had lost interest before they even took up hold.

I don't believe that the increased ratings have anything to do with the changes to the format of the competition though. It is more to do with a) there no longer being a clash with X Factor and b) this year's celebs - in general most of them seem to have a personality this year and a fair number of them are looking like they have a lot of potential.

I don't think it is debateable. DWTS does have some fantastic performances, that is not in dispute (especially those from Derek Hough) but, comparatively speaking, the quantity of quality performances on SCD is much much higher.

surely everything's debatable
I think the DWTS performances are of much higher quality than they were a few years ago and that they are on a par with SCD

If you don't think it is debatable, why are you posting on a discussion board?

I agree with telly fan - the performances are on a par with SCD these days.

I am a novice to Dancing, so I am not sure about the problem about holds, but I don't mind props.

I mean, I see Dancing With the Stars and I always see Len upset with all the exposition, and I understand that it's only a 2 minute routine and that sometimes they waste time. I also agree with people here that props can get a bit far fetched (a unicycle) But on the other hand I do think you need some fresh ideas not just have 7 of the same exact dance, so they need to distinguish themselves. They need to entice the viewer. I don't mind the use of props but within reason (introduction and exit) I did like the Pamela Stephenson lab coat piece a couple of weeks back

Are props usually used in dance competitions? (British or American). Were they banned in previous SCD's? Is it just scorned because the professionals are overused?

I do think that SCD does have better guests. Even though people didn't like last year's lot, at least they were all proper actors and presenters. I mean look at this year's DWTS cast with The Situation and Bristol Palin. They seem to go for the shock value most times, by casting reality stars and controversial guests along with the great potential celebs probably to grab ratings. Though I do have to say I am enjoying Audrina Patridge, as she is a pretty good dancer.

Props aren't usually used in dance competitions and they were not permitted in previous SCD's (apart from the use of capes in the paso doble).

The point about holds is that the technical rules for the dances require them, certainly the ballroom dances, so performing 'out of hold' means the celebs aren't performing the dance.

It has always been a tactic to waste time, especially for the weaker celebs who would struggle to do a full 90 seconds of the actual dance but this year it seems to have been taken to a new level. I think this is the thing that is really irritating me about it all. I wouldn't be that fussed if it was just a 10 second intro and exit but in some cases it's about 40 - 50 seconds of faffing about with unicycles, suspension cables, etc.

As it happens, I rather like Bristol Palin. She can't dance but she seems rather nice in stark contrast to the bad press she has had.

I am really surprised by that
she cannot dance and has no personality, well it's not coming across for me anyway
I guess we wouldn't agree on much

Hmm..perhaps I didn't express myself properly. I think the OP was only comparing the shows only insomuch as that SCD is slowly (quickly perhaps?) a pale verson of DWTS. I personally don't think this is a good thing. I watch DWTS when I want to watch frothy, showbizzy Ballroom with little content, with "hurray for everything" judging.
I watch SCD for proper Ballroom (even if it's done badly) with proper hold and sharp, incisive critique (yeah I know the personal insults are uncalled for, but you know what I mean) and at least some semblance of content, and never the twain shall meet as far as I'm concerned

I feel really sorry for Bristol.
She has been taken way out of her comfort zone & thrust into the spotlight. I hope she improves & wows us.

This is just not true......Len and Bruno are exactly the same on DWTS as they are on Strictly and Carrie Ann deducts points for illegal lifts......she did it just this week........and Len blasted one of the pros for lack of foxtrot in their foxtrot.....

The idea that the pros can coreograph absolutely anything on DWTS and still get high marks is just not true......the ONLY difference is that Len Bruno and Carrie mark on the same scale so there is no Craig with his very low marks.

While I don't actively welcome the props, I don't mind them if they're well integrated into the dance narrative, and we actually get some dancing as well.

Matt's wellies and Jared's book are the only ones where I've thought 'totally pointless', whereas stuff like Jimi and Flavia's houses, or Matt's unicycle, or even Ann's flying, is OK if they can turn it into part of the drama of the dance.

The main problem I'm finding is that the judges are criticising the added props, lifts etc. in favour of marking up routines that are much more traditionally SCD. Change the rules by all means, but you'll have to ask the judges to change the way they mark accordingly.

I disagree Jan2555. It appears to me at least that on DWTS Len appears to fawn over most everything. In earlier series it appears he did appear to try and impose some "traditional" values shall we say where Ballroom was concerned but nowadays he seems resigned to all the "MTV Ballroom" (usually saying something like "it's not to my taste but overall it was a good performance)moves that are de rigeur on DWTS.

As for Carrie-Ann Inaba. I understood that she was meant to be the Arlene Phillips of DWTS but apart from her role as "illegal lift police". She appears to be quite saccharine about just about everything

Not everyone has to agree with you. The question of whether the topics are debateable or not is not a decision you can make. This is a forum where people express their views and you really ought to allow them to do that.

That also goes for those who prefer DWTS. You really are not in a position to dictate the common view

But she chose to take part. I doubt anyone forced her. I do however think that she ought to go. She's not cut out for it and I dare say she'll never so anything like this again!

Well quite clearly the non-debatable point the cited poster was referring to is debatable as several of us (me included) have been debating it.

Exactly, there are a lot of people who like both programmes but given a choice would choose X factor and vice versa, now they can view both.