Was skimming through You Tube this morning and found some of these videos on there, some of which you may have seen before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-a_w...eature=related

It's amazing they were able to recolour some segments of the first episode in colour, some without audio. It got me thinking about if they were actually able to recolour all of Sixties Who. Take away the expense side of it and imagine they did do it, would you like to see it? Do you think it would improve the stories or ruin their mystique?

I would like to see it but on the other hand, surviving episodes like Part 2 of The Abominable Snowmen have a certain aura about them because they are in Black and White. I think the same can be said of The Web Of Fear as well.

So what are your thoughts on this?

I'd prefer the 70s in black and white.

No.

I'm sure there are a few stories where it would be nice to see the design and costumes in colour but I'd rather have it in the original black and white.

Nah - Pertwee wouldn't be the same without the glam backdrop!

I love the black and white stuff as it is....it adds to its charm....

The Mind of Evil, Ambassadors of Death and first ep of Invasion of the Dinosaurs look GREAT in B&W. Much more moody and effective. While the world* seemed to be peeing its pants about that recoloured episode of Planet of the Daleks, a while back, I don't think it added to the drama at all. Pertwee is better in B&W. The shonky CSO looks less shonky if you can't see the fringing round it!


*possibly an exaggeration

Whilst it would have been great to have seen some of the historical stories in colour - for example, The Aztecs and The Romans apparently had very colourful costumes - but I don't think that stories made in Black and White should be colourised. Keep them as they are.
Sets for B&W television were very carefully coloured - the original TARDIS console was actually pale green, which looked better on 1960s TV, so what might look to be correct colours on TV, probably weren't in reality.

As for the B&W Pertwee episodes that remain in the Archives - well Chuff does have a point. Part 1 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs does look far more atmospheric in B&W and the generally poor CSO of the early 1970s isn't anywhere near as obvious without the blue fringing. I once saw Terror of the Autons in B&W and that devil doll was actually creepy without the horrendous colours around it. the colour CSO is dreadful and drains any tension from that sequence. The photographic backdrops weren't so obvious either.

BUT... despite what I've said above I think I prefer Pertwee in colour, crap CSO, terrible early 70s colour schemes and all. That's how it was intended to be seen.

Colourisations are great fun for clips and I wouldn't mind seeing an episode colourised. But on the whole it would detract. The production team often used to be grateful that lack of clarity helped cover up the studio-bound/cheap/rushed-ness of much of it. The end of the first episode in colour, for example, draws your eye to the painted sky backdrop.

There's a scene in keys of marinus where the production team on the commentary wished with hindsight for colour because they were rapidly switching viewpoints between characters seeing the same room with different perceptions - sumptuous vs grotty. (I wonder if anyone has tried to colourise that? I think it's the onl bit of keys that Ray Cusick was vaguely pleased with.) But elsewhere they were grateful that 405 lines and shadows etc kept the untidy details hidden. (keys was not given the time or budget it needed. The mechanical statue arms. ahem. Ice cave was brill though)

I like the audio being cleaned - nice to hear the dialogue. The pictures I'm not so fussed about - but am happy with the dvd releases of 60's episodes I've seen so far.

I wouldn't like to lose the CSO stuff in The Mutants. Freaky. But I do agree with Chuff - I originally saw Pertwee stories in B&W. So, the Death's Green is it? If you say so! Although I was young - everything looked good then.

I have never been in favour of colourisation in any context because there was such an artistry involved in getting things to look good in monochrome.

Early colour programming was probably designed to look good on either type of receiver, which would explain why the Pertwees work so well in B&W. Suppose you can always turn the colour all the way down if the controls permit it.

I'd certainly prefer the majority of the Hartnell stories to remain in black and white as I think black and white is far more atmospheric than colour and a lot of those earlier stories do rely on atmosphere to work. For example, one of the reasons I love The Web Planet so much is the eerie quality of the way it's been filmed. The camera filters give the scenes on the planet's surface a lovely alien look so seldom seen in Doctor Who of any era. It allows you to suspend your disbelief and not concentrate so much on the production's faults. I think this only works because it's in black and white, though; colourisation would mean the set's failure to meet its ambitions is highlighted even more starkly than it already is!

It would be interesting to watch a few of the more action-based Troughton stories in colour, though. The Invasion springs to mind. Mind you, I'd just be happy if more of the Troughton episodes existed full stop - in colour or black and white!

The weird stuff in Claws of Axos would be lost in B&W, too. Love your comment about "the Death's Green, is it?"

It would be nice to see Marco Polo in colour (or "at all", for that matter): the photos look nice and colourful and everyone involved talks about the lovely designwork.

Vidfire, and tarting up the picture to make it suitable for wall-sized plasmas instead of boxy 405 lines, damages a lot of old DW and makes it look far more artificial and satged than it did originally.

I think with Invasion Of The Dinosaurs, it is better in the first B&W episode, the effects don't look so bad(but bad enough!). Disagree with you about the recolourisation of Planet Of The Daleks. Watching that 3rd epiosde in black and white jars the whole story a bit because it feels like being transported back to Sixties Who for one episode only then back again. I think it just makes the whole story seem as one having it in colour.


I think the historicals would work in colour. I have Marco Polo in coloured stills and it really is effective. I imagine The Keys Of Marinus would be the same. With The Web Planet, I'm not sure any amount of colourisation would make it better but I suppose it does come across as eerie at certain times in black and white. The Chase, another error strewn story, would be even worse I imagine if it were in colour!!!! !

Not only colouring of the sets but also the lighting and effects were done with B&W in mind. You only have to look at the awful botch job that was made of colourising the film Scrooge (made in B&W in 1952) to realise B&W is what it is meant to be and is the way it should stay!!

In the absence of the dearly lamented tingrametro I have to register a deep loathing of both digitally remastering and colourisation of old footage: there are numerous reasons why but these are the main two:

Directors and Designers were working on the premise of B&W and acted accordingly - take a look at the GVS frame by frame colour remake of "Psycho" and you'll see what I mean: visually it is soulless and bland compared to the Hitchcock.

The atmosphere that was created by the original prints was far superior to the cleaned up images that show flaws and mistakes that would never have been visible.

NO BLACK AND WHITE FILM OR TV PROGRAMME SHOULD EVER, EVER BE COLOURISED NO MATTER HOW CLEVER THE PROCESS: where there are only B&W prints left of a programme made for and broadcast in colour then ther is an argument for doing it for continuities sake.

Also, would anyone advocate giving New Who the B&W treatment in order to make it seem more like the early classics?

And chopping off the ends to make it 4:3.

Well, quite But if they stuck The Basil Brush Show and The Generation Game on after each ep. as extras I'd be happy

Well my old computerkept doing that to my DVDs.....so it kind of happens anyway!!!

While I don't think it should be made to look like the early shows- they are charming but times have moved on- a one off episode done in black and white (but modern quality footage, effects etc) might be very atmospheric, if an explanation can be found for why it's b&w. (Seen through the eyes/cameras of something that doesn't have colour vision?) I'd rather like that.

On artistic and all other grounds I agree the B&W should stay as it is. However I still have a tiny longing to see what it could have looked like, especially the historicals.

That's what i think - i like the you tube stuff for a bit of fun . The sixties teams were showing great skill (within constraints) and it is rewarding to reeducate your brain to appreciate that "look" for what it is. However i do appreciate that sometimes they are recovering material from poor and damaged copies so am fine for the most part with the dvds I have seen (first five stories- not polo obviously)

One day i may buy a vhs player , recover my vhs from storage and compare.

If it were a period piece with a film noir sort of storyline, perhaps the artistic reason for the B&W would be self-evident and they wouldn't need an in-story explanation for it. Or it could be set on a planet with odd lighting conditions that make everything look grey.

I seem tor ecall that there were discussions about making The Happiness Patrol in B&W, to emphasise a film noir feeling. lots of tilted camera angles and B&W film would make iot look a ,lot more atmospheric than it does. needless to say, that was a bit too avant garde!

(I love The Happiness Patrol).

Hi there,

Sorry about digging up this topic, I tried to thanks daveyboy7472 by private message, but it looks like his message box was full.
I'm the one who made the colourization (and also the software that helps me colourizing)
So, that's just a message to thanks daveyboy7472 for this topic

Greg

Many are gonna disagree with me here but I wouldn't mind seeing the old Hartnell/Troughtan stories in colour.

And removing all CGI so essentially you only have a 10 minute story.