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Simon Cowell is he or isn't he??? (Part 2)


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Old 21-02-2011, 15:21
Moireen
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To be honest, IF Cheryl showed some real personality, she could be interesting. I found her somehow funny in the old GA docus. But this suger-coated fake persona won't convince anyone in the states.
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Old 21-02-2011, 16:43
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how have Idol ratings been this season without Cowell? Will Idol get another season ?
Idol has many more seasons in it albeit with declining ratings. So far, ratings are down 14% vs last year although they have varied quite a bit (one episode matched last year, for example, others have been down around 25%).The real test will be the live shows and it sounds like they've made an effort to improve that. Going into the live shows last year (2010), Idol was down just 6% vs 2009. But it was pretty much a straight downward trend from Hollywood week to the final. As I said in another thread, I think Idol could start eliminating contestants by dropping them through a trapdoor to hungry tigers and the ratings would still fall 10%. It seems that there is nothing the producers can do to halt the decline (a common problem on US TV just now!) and it could have some implications for X Factor.

Yes, he needs to find no-nonsense, brutally honest judge in him again. Sucking up to Cole and praising each rubbish contestant over the man won't make the Americans tune in in masses.
It'll be interesting to see how he goes about this. XF & BGT have become hugely successful in recent years with the "Uncle Simon" routine instead of "Mr Nasty", replacing the more aggressive, brash Sharon with the teary eyed Cheryl, cutting out the sob stories, lavishing praise on everyone and generally making "feel good TV for the recesson". Idol has kind of jumped that idea now with the softly softly new judges and Nigel's chat about it being a "nice" show now. On one hand, there will be a temptation to do what works and on the other, to differentiate from Idol and live up to the "Simon Cowell" idea that viewers have.

I don't think Cheryl is the ideal candidate - in no small part because I think having Cheryl & Simon on the US panel is going to distract the UK media from XF UK. There's also the accent thing. But also because I'd have thought Simon might like the opportunity to try and replicate what he did in the UK with Cheryl with someone new in the US and avoid giving her too much leverage over him. But either way, there's going to be a "Cheryl" figure on the panel.

I think if XF US is to do really well, they're going to need a "breakout star" on the panel in the way that Simon was in 2002 and that Cheryl was for XF in 2008 - giving the show a second wind. That's either going to be a well known name demonstrating a new side to their personality and really surprising people or it's going to be a relative unknown.

Realistically, the promo is only going to focus on 2 names at most regardless of who they get (XF UK was Simon & Sharon with Louis "supporting" shall we say!). It would be extremely unusual for any TV show to launch with 3 "topline" names let alone 4. Most just have 1.

In terms of ratings, it's not going to match Idol, IMO. I think FOX have high hopes for it and their new Spielberg dino drama Terra Nova (with a $14m pilot!). Usually the "pass mark" for reality TV is ~2.0 and for drama it's ~2.5. Both of those need to do far better than that. But I struggle to imagine anything on US TV ever premiering to more than a 6.0 again. In fact, this season nothing managed a 4.0.
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Old 21-02-2011, 17:08
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Idol has many more seasons in it albeit with declining ratings. So far, ratings are down 14% vs last year although they have varied quite a bit (one episode matched last year, for example, others have been down around 25%).The real test will be the live shows and it sounds like they've made an effort to improve that. Going into the live shows last year (2010), Idol was down just 6% vs 2009. But it was pretty much a straight downward trend from Hollywood week to the final. As I said in another thread, I think Idol could start eliminating contestants by dropping them through a trapdoor to hungry tigers and the ratings would still fall 10%. It seems that there is nothing the producers can do to halt the decline (a common problem on US TV just now!) and it could have some implications for X Factor.



It'll be interesting to see how he goes about this. XF & BGT have become hugely successful in recent years with the "Uncle Simon" routine instead of "Mr Nasty", replacing the more aggressive, brash Sharon with the teary eyed Cheryl, cutting out the sob stories, lavishing praise on everyone and generally making "feel good TV for the recesson". Idol has kind of jumped that idea now with the softly softly new judges and Nigel's chat about it being a "nice" show now. On one hand, there will be a temptation to do what works and on the other, to differentiate from Idol and live up to the "Simon Cowell" idea that viewers have.

I don't think Cheryl is the ideal candidate - in no small part because I think having Cheryl & Simon on the US panel is going to distract the UK media from XF UK. There's also the accent thing. But also because I'd have thought Simon might like the opportunity to try and replicate what he did in the UK with Cheryl with someone new in the US and avoid giving her too much leverage over him. But either way, there's going to be a "Cheryl" figure on the panel.

I think if XF US is to do really well, they're going to need a "breakout star" on the panel in the way that Simon was in 2002 and that Cheryl was for XF in 2008 - giving the show a second wind. That's either going to be a well known name demonstrating a new side to their personality and really surprising people or it's going to be a relative unknown.

Realistically, the promo is only going to focus on 2 names at most regardless of who they get (XF UK was Simon & Sharon with Louis "supporting" shall we say!). It would be extremely unusual for any TV show to launch with 3 "topline" names let alone 4. Most just have 1.

In terms of ratings, it's not going to match Idol, IMO. I think FOX have high hopes for it and their new Spielberg dino drama Terra Nova (with a $14m pilot!). Usually the "pass mark" for reality TV is ~2.0 and for drama it's ~2.5. Both of those need to do far better than that. But I struggle to imagine anything on US TV ever premiering to more than a 6.0 again. In fact, this season nothing managed a 4.0.
This will be a key point to nail. I think the majority of Brits initially preferred the kinder Simon and it works well on BGT which needs a warmer feel. However, some of his harsher critiques have been shelved in favour of future Sony/Syco profits - ie over praising Cher last year. The important thing for Simon is not to try to match Idol by being all 'hearts and flowers' with an overly nice judging style, but also not to resort to cheap jibes. Simon has been at his best when he articulates what we are all thinking, but with humour. As long as he is generally spot on with his comments and criticises his own acts when justified - as he used to do - then i think people will style enjoy watching Simon.
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Old 21-02-2011, 18:00
Moireen
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I think if XF US is to do really well, they're going to need a "breakout star" on the panel in the way that Simon was in 2002 and that Cheryl was for XF in 2008 - giving the show a second wind. That's either going to be a well known name demonstrating a new side to their personality and really surprising people or it's going to be a relative unknown.
The Urban Insider, who sometimes get things right before other people even have an idea, recently claimed Janet Jackson is in consideration. This could work. It would appeal to the black audience, she's well-known but at the moment not too overexposed and she would bring some hype as a member of the Jackson clan.

As opposed to many other people, I think the most difficult task for US X Factor will be to find a Louis figure. He's not my favourite judge, but he's always in the centre of the banter. You can replace Cheryl with a sweet, pretty starlet. You can replace Dannii with a slightly older good-looking ex-female singer. You can even replace Simon. But finding a Louis figure will be very difficult.

For the younger female, I could see someone like Miranda Lambert in the panel.
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Old 21-02-2011, 18:10
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Ratings have been pretty good for AI, but more importantly, it's getting great reviews from most people. The general feeling is that the show has been refreshed. That'll be the big difference between this year and last year. We have a panel of people who are excited to be there and who are new and different. Steven Tyler and Jennifer Lopez are doing much much much better than Ellen DeGeneres and Kara DioGuardi. Plus Simon isn't sitting there with his sourpuss "I HATE being here" act. That has to make a big difference.
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Old 21-02-2011, 18:17
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The Urban Insider, who sometimes get things right before other people even have an idea, recently claimed Janet Jackson is in consideration. This could work. It would appeal to the black audience, she's well-known but at the moment not too overexposed and she would bring some hype as a member of the Jackson clan.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was in contention. Based on what Simon has said and the timescales, I suspect Syco, Fremantle & FOX have agreed on some kind of list of people who are willing to do it and it's now just a case of Simon and his team making the decision.

As opposed to many other people, I think the most difficult task for US X Factor will be to find a Louis figure. He's not my favourite judge, but he's always in the centre of the banter. You can replace Cheryl with a sweet, pretty starlet. You can replace Dannii with a slightly older good-looking ex-female singer. You can even replace Simon. But finding a Louis figure will be very difficult.

For the younger female, I could see someone like Miranda Lambert in the panel.
I don't even think they'll try to replace Louis, tbh - he's one of a kind! It sounds like that spot is going to some kind of US music industry exec which makes sense.

Miranda Lambert is an interesting one that I hadn't considered before. Cute, commercially very successful and critically acclaimed but because of the genre, she's not a celebrity as such so she'd be a new face.
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Old 21-02-2011, 18:26
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Janet Jackson would be a great choice. Ive heard her name crop up a few times. Probably the only thing against her for the show is her age - if they are going for the "young and fresh" vibe she might not be top of the list. I do feel she could be good though -contestants would respect her I think and she is a big enough name for the panel, without having a full on career to worry about.

Id love for Ryan Seacrest to have the Louis spot - the banter with Simon would be awesome. Unfortunately, thats very unlikely to happen - but I do hope they find someone who Simon can banter with - the handbags at dawn moments on XF with Louis are some of the best moments of the show these days. Louis would be the one to take to the US, NOT Princess Cheryl in my opinion - I think he would go down well out there. As long as its not Clive Davis - I cannot bear that man - he has zero charm for TV. Slow, dull and full of his own self importance.
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Old 21-02-2011, 19:45
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I agree - I cant believe how much he has aged this past year. I saw him a few times "In the flesh" last year and was shocked at the change. Whatever is going on with Kerching, it certainly isnt making him happy, that much is obvious. I think its the lack of respect for her that gets me every time - if he cared about her in any way (either as a "friend" or "girlfriend") he surely would NOT treat her like that. And I dont buy this "oh he is afraid to show his feelings in public" crap either. He's 51 not 15. Treating your "girlfriend" with dignity, affection and respect should not be an effort or a chore - it should be a natural response and simply put, he is NOT natural with her at all.

This, coupled with the stress of trying to launch US XF, an obvious major row with ITV and UK XF backlashes last year (even though 99% of those were done for publicity) must be taking its toll. Its sad to see - he doesnt have the same magnetic, charming-but-mischievious onscreen presence he once did either. The witty sarcasm has mutated into some horrible love fest for all the contestants so they will flog songs on itunes. Im sure not the Americans will be thrilled with this - even though they have sold contestants songs on Idol via itunes for a few years now, Simon never profited from that directly, but of course all the booty from XF is pretty much his. I hope this wont mean we get "Simon-Lite" on US XF.

It seems to me, he is putting his heart, soul and complete LIFE into US XF - I just hope its worth it.
So he splits up with Terri after 6 years because he dosen't want marriage or a family. Then five minutes later announces to the world he has found " the one" and wants "little Simons". So i do want marriage and kids just not with you Terri ! I think its the lack of respect for her that gets me every time - if he cared about her in any way (either as a "friend" or "girlfriend") he surely would NOT treat her like that. ( Terri or Mish) If it was a genuine relationship he could have discreetly got married and started a family without rubbing Terri's nose in it so publicly. I always thought he treated his exes well up until that point. That's why i think something about this " relationship " with Mish stinks
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Old 21-02-2011, 19:50
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Originally Posted by conchie View Post
I completely agree. In the world of showbusiness as far back as the silent movies.....it was career suicide to come out as gay. How many thousands of "convenient" marriages took place between the hot male star of the day and some pretty little thing just to be at his side. In usually all cases it was totally business related. For people selling themselves as a certain thing... its impossible to come out as gay or face ruin, and its purely a business thing, nothing to do with homophobia at all.

Nothing has really changed in 2010. Rupert Everett has already stated if he could turn the clock back he would never have come out, PURELY from a work and business point of view. All the great roles he could have been up for were suddenly out of the question and I can totally understand that.

Simon has been the voice of HONESTY for the last decade... how much of a sham would it be to suddenly announce now that he is gay (allegedly of course).

It does make me wonder though, what on earth could be happening behind the scenes to suddenly feel the need to produce THE ONE !!!! Its almost as if some expose of him is about to be made public and he is fighting back ahead of time with massive damage limitation. Time will tell I suppose.
Great post

to suddenly feel the need to produce THE ONE !!!! Its almost as if some expose of him is about to be made public and he is fighting back ahead of time with massive damage limitation.


Oooh, call me a cynic , but there is a very good point!
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Old 21-02-2011, 19:55
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Great post



Oooh, call me a cynic , but there is a very good point!
Lol I see you found your way over
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Old 21-02-2011, 20:24
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Trouble is, that doesn't really work on XF, he's had his own acts give dreadful performances, yet he'll sit there, praise them or make weak excuses (Danyl's horrific IDWTMAT is unfortunately burned on my brain sadly ) - doesn't gell with the 'honest Simon' reputation. Plus, if he does his normal trick of 'borrowing' well received performances from Idol, a lot more people will realise.

I honestly think, without a revamp and a few changes, he's got problems where US XF is concerned.

If Cheryl does get the judging job, it does look a bit weak again compared to Idol, they've got a rock superstar and a former A lister with great name recognition and XF would have 'who?' - he'll need some massive names to compete, making Cheryl's inclusion even more odd looking.
I've never quite understood this odd Simon obsession with Cheryl. She's a pretty young woman, who can dance a little and sing not at all. The streets of Hollywood are paved with them and most of them have bigger names in America than Cheryl Cole. This thread informs me the interest isn't romantic, so WHAT is it? I'd be grateful if someone would tell me.
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Old 21-02-2011, 20:31
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I've never quite understood this odd Simon obsession with Cheryl. She's a pretty young woman, who can dance a little and sing not at all. The streets of Hollywood are paved with them and most of them have bigger names in America than Cheryl Cole. This thread informs me the interest isn't romantic, so WHAT is it? I'd be grateful if someone would tell me.
They are in some way very similar (they care only for themselves and have made a career on very similar) and he probably has the feeling that Cheryl is his creation. In some way, she is. He took a WAG and the least talented member of GA (apart from Kimberley) and turned her into the nation's sweetheart. That is quite an achievement.
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Old 21-02-2011, 21:39
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He looks awful this year and it doesn't seem like natural ageing. Perhaps he's feeling the pressure of XF US more than he expected, it is a heavy weight on his shoulders alone. He's made comparisons with launching Idol, but it's really not the same, he was unknown with no expectations on him then. His personal life has nose dived. I don't think he was prepared for anything going wrong with the Kerching PR, having been blessed with a stress free relationship with Terri.
There was a photo taken of him last year coming out of his annual medical looking none to happy. Maybe the doc told him to take a chill pill or at least cut down on the fags which he clings on to for dear life
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Old 21-02-2011, 21:48
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I was going to ask how he looked in person, as i did not see him last year. The respect issue also bugs me as my impression of him from what i have seen and read is that he is very gentlemanly, yet he is downright rude at times around Kerching. The way his character has transformed is not good at all. Looking at recent photos, there is no sparkle in his eyes, which is usually something very noticeable and charming about him.

It's a shame because he's lost control over the Mezghan situation which is probably why he looks to tetchy and stressed. If he's contracted to her for another year, that is also going to depress him. No wonder his family didn't want to holiday with them. They really need to wake Simon up to this mess if he hasn't already realised how it's affecting him. I'll even be superficial about it and say for a vain man, this is doing him no favours! But for his health and mind, i hope his family will have strong words with him. He's in need to some guidance, but i don't think he has a figure like that in his life, everyone seems to take from or rely on him.

I really hope he doesn't leave UK XF. I still have no idea how he can effectively mentor and produce both shows, but if US XF fails - or more likely, just has an average season - i'm not sure where that leaves him.
He is aging like everyone does but heavy smoking, overuse of botox IMO and stress aren't helping, but as you say he is vain and with the advent HD TV i don't think we will see Simon on screen for too much longer more of a production role i would say, just taking the profits as at the end of the day he is primarily a businesman not a music lover
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:01
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i've never watched idol but have been wondering about the young fresh approach with USXF if he would get a really young judge as the applicants now only have to be 12

A lot of the big names in the teen/twenties bracket may not be available for such a length of time (unless he has lots of guest judges of course)

I do think he should at least do part of the uk version out of loyalty. The thing i have liked about Simon in the past is his loyalty to the uk, and while being sucessful in America still chose to reside and pay a big chunk of his money into our tax system unlike his friend Mr Topshop allegedly
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:05
mary patricia
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i've never watched idol but have been wondering about the young fresh approach with USXF if he would get a really young judge as the applicants now only have to be 12
I hope that age bracket it used to get attention for the show and they don't end up actually having a 12 year old contestant. That's just a recipe for disaster. It's ok on shows like AGT or BGT because they only have the audition and then two live shows (in one week) to get through. The X-Factor would be far too gruelling for what effectively is still a young child. They wouldn't be able to live in the house or do a lot of the promotion. I know they want it to be different to AI but there's different and there's asking for trouble. They should've kept it at 16.
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:43
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Janet Jackson would be great and a LOT better than Cheryl!
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:45
mary patricia
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Janet Jackson would be great and a LOT better than Cheryl!
As long as she doesn't have a "wardrobe malfunction" he he
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Old 22-02-2011, 10:38
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I hope that age bracket it used to get attention for the show and they don't end up actually having a 12 year old contestant. That's just a recipe for disaster. It's ok on shows like AGT or BGT because they only have the audition and then two live shows (in one week) to get through. The X-Factor would be far too gruelling for what effectively is still a young child. They wouldn't be able to live in the house or do a lot of the promotion. I know they want it to be different to AI but there's different and there's asking for trouble. They should've kept it at 16.
I'll place money they'll be a singing family group, with 12/13 year old in tow, in the finals.

12 is way too young, Idol have dropped to 15, and although a couple of them seem to be coping okay, there's one young lad who seems to be a very young 15 year old and I worry about him, don't think he's anywhere near emotionally mature enough, or experienced enough, to handle it.

He is aging like everyone does but heavy smoking, overuse of botox IMO and stress aren't helping, but as you say he is vain and with the advent HD TV i don't think we will see Simon on screen for too much longer more of a production role i would say, just taking the profits as at the end of the day he is primarily a businesman not a music lover
I think you're right, if US XF launches successfully, I reckon within 5 years he'll be vitually completely behind the scenes - probably publicising them, but backstage come the actual shows. (and obviously living in a lovely house with Ryan, sorry, I meant Kerching and lots of mini Simons - damm typos )
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Old 22-02-2011, 10:50
mary patricia
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Originally Posted by Agent Krycek;483*****
I'll place money they'll be a singing family group, with 12/13 year old in tow, in the finals
I suppose that would be marginally better than a 12 yr old on their own. At least in a group they would have some support. I still think 12 is too young and a really stupid idea.
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Old 22-02-2011, 14:56
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Ratings have been pretty good for AI, but more importantly, it's getting great reviews from most people. The general feeling is that the show has been refreshed. That'll be the big difference between this year and last year. We have a panel of people who are excited to be there and who are new and different. Steven Tyler and Jennifer Lopez are doing much much much better than Ellen DeGeneres and Kara DioGuardi. Plus Simon isn't sitting there with his sourpuss "I HATE being here" act. That has to make a big difference.
That's true. AI is so much better this year because the judges line-up is so good. You can actually respect these people, and the banter/respect between them is ace. they've picked real talent too.

It's so much better I haven't even thought about Simon's absence because it actually doesn't matter a damn!

I suspect American X Factor will be dire, if it ever happens?
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Old 22-02-2011, 15:05
C14E
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I really don't think we'll see any 12 year olds in the live shows but I suspect one around that age will be on the first auditions episode and do really well. XF was originally put forward as being open to a wider age range and now that Idol has gone and dropped its entry limit to 16, I think they felt the need to extend theirs further as well and that's why this has happened.

I could see a 14 or 15 year old maybe (Bieber was 15 when he made it big). Pretty sure Idol will also have a 16 year old to make a point as well.
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Old 22-02-2011, 15:13
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They are in some way very similar (they care only for themselves and have made a career on very similar) and he probably has the feeling that Cheryl is his creation. In some way, she is. He took a WAG and the least talented member of GA (apart from Kimberley) and turned her into the nation's sweetheart. That is quite an achievement.
Ah, I see. The Pygmalion complex. Well, that could be. But that sounds as though Simon's ego is beginning to overwhelm his business sense. The only person, who seems to have any influence over him is his mother. I wonder what she's telling him. Because I like Simon, strange cat, though he is.
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Old 22-02-2011, 15:45
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They are in some way very similar (they care only for themselves and have made a career on very similar) and he probably has the feeling that Cheryl is his creation. In some way, she is. He took a WAG and the least talented member of GA (apart from Kimberley) and turned her into the nation's sweetheart. That is quite an achievement.

This. He thinks he created her and wants to share his creation with America. And he's too lazy to try and do it again with someone new.
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Old 22-02-2011, 16:04
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This. He thinks he created her and wants to share his creation with America. And he's too lazy to try and do it again with someone new.
For all his faults, you REALLY cannot accuse Simon of being lazy...

The Cheryl thing is confusing to me though, as I just dont GET her status as Nation's Sweet'art and this Godess persona the media peddle. She is mind bogglingly popular and I guess its logical to assume she would consequently go on to "charm" the American public the same way she has inexplicably charmed ours. Her meteoric rise from a non entity, chavvy, mediocre girl band member to Saint Cheryl, The Compassionate of Newcastle amazes me, but it happened here, so there isnt really any reason it cant happen in the US..especially with Uncle Simon behind her (No, not like that - not on this thread ). I can certainly see why he thinks she is worth a punt on the US show (not that I like her very much personally).
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