Hey,

I've been offered both these phones on a £15/month contract (300 mins, 300 texts, unlimited internet) - but i'm not sure which one to get - any advice?

Thanks

Screen on the desire is a little larger (3.7" v 3.5") and a slightly different aspect ratio - the N8 is more a widescreen.

Camera is definitely better on the N8; its better than absolutely every other camera phone on the market though.

Had a play with an N8 at lunch (finally), and it is definitely leagues ahead of the prior S^1 releases, and after a few weeks with Android I personally don't think there's much to choose between them.

If the camera is important to you, the N8 is the main choice. If you value the larger screen, then the desire is the better option.

What network offered you that? Sounds like a very good deal.

I would imagine it's a retention deal.

it'll be Three. on 24 month contract.

they seem to be chucking the air time in for free these days and just selling the handset.

It's an upgrade through buymobilephones.net on T-mobile

So N8?

I've read/listened to a few reviews for the N8, and the recurring theme seems to be that it's a phone with fantastic hardware and a fantastic camera - but is completely let down by the operating system. Engadget have covered this phone extensively - download some of their recent podcasts for some in-depth info on the phone.

Having previously owned a few Nokia phones (with the last one being the N95) I now own a HTC Desire and think it's a fantastic phone. The hardware is great, the only criticisms I have are the speaker is a bit quiet and the camera lets it down slightly (video can be a bit choppy). It's definitely not the worst camera out there (far from it), it's perfectly usable and doesn't spoil the phone as far as I'm concerned.

Having moved from Symbian based Nokias to an Android based phone, I don't think I can ever go back. Symbian seems very dated and 'clunky' in comparison - ok, I've not tried the latest version (that comes with the N8), but the reviews seem to suggest that it has a long way to go before it's up to the standard of Android and iOS.

Take a look at the HTC Desire HD and ask about a deal on that. I have the Desire and love it. The Desire HD will be my next phone.

Those knocking the OS on the N8 are coming from the basis that its not running Android or iOS, therefore its useless. When the reality is that its as easy to use as either iOS or Android.

After a month with Android, and having now gone back to Symbian (N8), I really don't understand what everyone has been going on about.

The only area where the N8 lacks is on the browser, and the update will be with us in a month or two - in the mean time just use Opera, which gives a similar browsing experience to either Chrome or Safari.

That seems to be a very narrow minded and dismissive view to post on other people's opinion. Perhaps it may be worth you considering that people have an opinion on these handsets based on use or experience, not just on the fact that it's not Android or iOS running on it?

Personally I find that Symbian tends to lack a decent UI and feels clunky. It also lacks the level of interest from developers that Android and iOS have attracted, meaning less of the big names coming to it and less choice in terms of software.

I also find that Ovi maps is nowhere near as good as some make out and that alternatives on other platforms tends to be better. On top of that my experience of the built in GPS chip on Nokias wasn't as good as I find it on the Desire or Desire HD.

It doesn't matter to me that the N8 doesn't run iOS, Android or whatever else. It's the fact it runs Symbian that's the issue and that Symbian in my view feels lacking in terms of it's UI compared to some of UIs installed on other handsets. It feels like it's had it's day.


This is a big thing in life, it's called choice and preference. What may work for you may not work for me. We're all different.


I've not had extensive playing with the N8 yet so I'll have to take your word for it. However with the handset being a Symbian handset and still showing that dated UI look I'll not hold my breath for any "WOW" factors appearing on the internet. Many have realised that Symbian's had it's day.


As for the original post, for me there's no question. It's the Desire every time. Nokia has blown it with me as their handsets have gone downhill since the N95 8gig, their last decent handset. And they insist on using Symbian despite it's popularity in the handset world starting to drop noticeably now and other manufacturers who were involved with Nokia to develop it pulling out and dropping it (Samsung and Sony Ericcson).

Photos on the N8 may be better, I don't argue that, but for me I tend to look more importantly at the web experience in terms of connectivity and browsing. The Desire beats the pants off the N8 here. GPS is another biggie for me and the Desire has better GPS it seems. And of course apps. I'm not an app addict that has an app for everything but there are a few decent games and apps that I really enjoy using and it makes my handset better having these choice to customise it. Symbian apps are lacking when it comes to comparison with other brands.

So for someone who's not overly fussed about top notch photos from a phone the N8 really isn't that attractive to me. I have a decent stand alone camera I use for that and if I don't have it with me my DHD's camera is good enough for a quick photo. It's a case of priorities I guess, the other stuff is more important to me.

@lalaland - the gps on the N8 is great. not sure how the desire HD could be any better. it finds you position in a few seconds.

Indoors it's accurate to a few meters. but out doors it's incredible. and of course it comes with free world wide mapping and voice guidance with street names, traffic rerouting etc.

please explain to me how the desire hd has better GPS?

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with regard to the it's not android/iOS argument: there are very few people who have day to day experience of more than one of the latest OS's. if people have two phones one tends to be basic. there's almost nobody who can say that they use an N8 and an iPhone every day. and as such someone who is familiar with say the iPhone, tends to approach the N8 and say why doesn't it do this or that. feeling that what they are used to is the norm. it's very difficult to judge a platform on it's own merits. in the same way it is for a windows user to approach linux. they just think a different way of doing things is wrong.

Something I forgot to mention in my last post was GPS - I have heard that Ovi Maps on the N8 is very good. However, Google Navigation running on the Desire brilliant (infinitely better than the GPS on my old N95). The big downside to it is that it requires a network connection to download routes, however there are alternative Sat Nav apps for Android that don't require this. Newer HTC phones such as the Desire HD will have access to HTC Locations, a collaboration between HTC and Tom Tom.

I must stress I've not used an N8, but from everything I've read about it, the big let-down is Symbian. It's an OS that was not designed for touch screens and is really lacking behind competitors. On paper the N8's hardware is top notch, I'm not disputing that. But for me it's like buying a high-end PC and installing Windows 95 - the OS is going to let it down.

But as 'lalaland' says, it's down to choice and preference - and everyone's different. So my advice would be to go to a phone shop and try both to see which one you prefer.

And if you do prefer the HTC Desire, see what kind of deal you can get on the Desire HD as HTCSense.com and HTC Locations look very attractive!

Putting the N8 my brother in law owns alongside my Desire HD the DHD showed better performance in terms of the GPS and whole navigation package compared to the N8.

The signal fix on the DHD was achieved quicker and it appeared to have a stronger signal both in doors, in the car and in a rear garden.

As for the satnav side, Google maps and Ovi maps I guess is down to preference. Both are free but I tend to prefer Google maps over Ovi. Both offer free voice guidence but features on each tend to differ slightly from there on.

However I don't use Google maps, I use Navigon 3.5.0 which when put next to Ovi maps makes it look like a cheap and batter AtoZ that got rainsoaked and was an edition from several years ago.


I guess it depends on the level of experience of either, however it's not hard to get access to more than one OS and play with them. This can be done in store or if you know someone who owns another handset. Admittedly it's not going to get you to an expert level on the platform but you'll be able to get a feel for both.

One thing I have noticed is that when someone who is venturing in to the smartphone area takes a look at what's out there, with no previous experience of smartphone OSs they tend to get a WOW factor from either iOS or Android with one or the other getting them interested. I've yet to see anyone get that from Symbian.

Most of my friends and relatives come to me when they want a new handset, laptop or pretty much anything that has a geeky side to it. I suggest for those looking for smartphones to try iOS, Android and others. I tend to give them a list of 4 or 5 handsets to try and recently I noticed they've all started getting Desires, DHDs, and Galaxy S handsets. The odd one or two has gone for the iPhone 4. Yet despite me advising them to look at Symbian handsets not one of them has purchased one despite some of them recognising Nokia as being a good name from their previous purchases over the years.

So while people may not be able to get 'day to day' experience of more than one OS it seems clear to me that Android and iOS tend to get people hooked or interested from their first play while Symbian does not.


I currently own an N97, a Desire and a Desire HD. I also have a Blackberry provided to me by work. Not really what you'd call basic. I appreciate that I'm not a average user but I'd suggest that there are plenty who will have regular access to more than one high end smartphone.


It's true that people will get used to their own preferred OS and it's UI or features, but that's the same of any handset. People with an N8 may prefer that to Android or iOS because they've got used to it as you appear to suggest above against the N8. It works all ways. However I think you're more unlikely to convert people from Android running Sense for example over to Symbian with it's clunky dated feeling UI or even from iOS to Symbian.

Even with my geeky side I was taken from Symbian to Android. I loved Symbian, thought it was great, then I dabbled with Android running HTC Sense and there was no looking back - ever!

At the end of the day it's down to preference and what an individual is looking for. Some will prefer Android, some iOS and some Symbian. Having said that I can see that Symbian is starting to see manufacturers drop it, leaving Nokia alone with it, and developers aren't as interested in it. It's slowly heading the way of the betamax it seems. It may take time, but Symbian is a sinking ship...

Get the Galaxy S, it's better than both of them

Yep, the Desire and Desire HD's GPS / Satnav experience is better than the Nokia one. However on the Locations side are you aware that the maps are Route66 maps, not Tomtom? It doesn't make a difference to be honest, but I keep seeing people say Tomtom despite every time you fire Locations up it says Route66 in the corner of the screen for a few seconds.


In some ways I agree with you. Symbian is an old OS that's been developed to work with the more modern handsets which are a lot more demanding. While in some ways it's keeping up it doesn't have that polised feel that the more modern handsets produce with their decent UIs running on other OSs.


Yep, every time.


I would recommend the DHD over the Desire but it's still worth trying both. My wife prefers the Desire over the DHD where as I prefer the DHD over the Desire.

Opinion is fine, but on a lot of reviews they just tend to say that its got an outdated UI. It doesn't - its easy to use, just as easy as iOS and Android.


Some of the bigger gaming developers already have games released on S^3, and whilst choice is good, the level of complete and utter rubbish on the Android Marketplace and Apple App Store is quite scary. And yes, I'm talking from experience of all 3 platforms.


Never had problems with GPS on any of the Symbian phones I've owned - N95, N85, 5800 and 5230 - all locked on fast and were reliable for use as a satnav.


Dated UI? Again, precisely what is dated about it? And you haven't used S^3, so you can't really comment on something you haven't used.


SE and Samsung pulling out of Symbian was no real loss - whilst their products were interesting, they were never supported, and to be honest both never had any clue which way they wanted to go - they were producing Symbian, WM and Android devices at various points, along with their own OS. Its only hackers like HyperX who have done a sterling job of doing what Samsung should have done all along. Its a seriously poor showing when a company doesn't do anything to support their own products.

The N8 has surprised me - the UI is easy, the camera is truly stunning (it'll beat a lot of dedicated cameras), video recording is equal to my panasonic (which records in AVCHD), sat nav works perfectly, games are good (Angry Birds, Cannonball, NFS Shift all run perfectly).

Not much real advise here in that it is mainly mythology.
With Symbian ahead of the game on some software am curious what Opera Mobile 10 is like on the N8?

Anyone actually got it?

A review is someone's opinion. So in their opinion it has an outdated UI, in your it doesn't. I have to admit, in my view it does have an outdated UI. I guess it's just down to people's opinions with the popular one currently suggesting that it has an outdated UI.

If you put the UI running on the Nokia Symbian handsets up against iOS or say HTC's sense running on Android then yes, Symbian does look and feel very dated. It can't compete with the modern and popular UIs which is a large chunk of the battle for sales.


If we were competing with the sheer number of all out apps then yes this would be an issue, however the point was that the big developers and popular apps are attracted to Android and iOS and not Symbian. You get a fraction of the decent software appearing for Symbian compared to iOS and Android. Yes, there is also garbage on there too, but you don't have to bother with it and it doesn't detract from the decent stuff which Nokia just can't tempt on to Symbian meaning that Symbian users just don't get the chance to use the popular software on the whole.


The earlier handsets you mentioned all performed a lot better with an external GPS receiver. They were not comparable to the GPS chipset used in the Desire or Desire HD for example. The modern handsets work so well that an external receiver just isn't even a thought.

I've tested Nokia's previous GPS attempts in demanding situations such as blue light runs on emergency service vehicles. They were good but I always found that an external receiver was required in the end if I wanted to totally rely on them where as the Desire and Desire HD have worked flawlessly in this situation without such a need.


The first thing that grabbed me was the home screens being very limited in terms of the widgets only being able to be placed in the same old rectangular approach that previous versions offered. There didn't appear to be an option to have a full screen widget such as the weather widget I enjoy on my Desire HD (or the email, SMS, contacts etc. the list goes on).


Please don't make incorrect assumptions that only serve you make you look like an ass

I have used S^3, which is why I'm talking about it. I've even referenced it earlier in my posts when I talked about testing the GPS against my HTC handset. Admittedly not a vast amount of testing, but I have certainly used it. To avoid looking this silly in future make sure you ask if you are unsure about something


It is a loss. You are now seeing less products supporting Symbian and in turn Symbian loosing market share potential. This makes it less appealing to developers and also means there are less parties involved in evolving the OS. In short, Symbian users will loose out as a result of companies dropping the OS in favour of more popular OSs.

The fact that Windows and Android devices have been favoured by these companies over Symbian, to the point where they have dropped Symbian, says a lot about all three products and will certainly have an affect on future development and sales for those OSs.


And yet they support the other OSs which they haven't dropped. Symbian's lack of support was down to resources being gradually pulled until the day it was dropped. It was recognised as being the sinking ship so why plough extra cash in to it when you have other OSs that are doing better and offering more potential? All this does is shows that Symbian was dragging behind them.


The N8 as a handset looks great. The build looks better than previous recent Nokias and the spec looks good too. Sadly it's the Symbian part of that which puts me off it and I think it's this part that will ultimately let it down.

Don't get me wrong I think the N8 will sell relatively well, but I don't think it's going to rise Nokia up the ranks again. I think they've made too many silly mistakes over the last few years and they've lost way too much ground to other manufacturers.

It's also interesting to see that Nokia themselves have just launched the N8 as a flagship model with Symbian when they are planning to demote Symbian to their lower end handsets and not use it for top end handsets any longer. That doesn't say much about the shelf life and lastability of the product to me.

This has got to be a major consideration as Nokia will be throwing its weight behind MeeGo (which, from what I've seen so far, looks very good ). How long will the N8 be supported?

Some N8 reviews:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/nokia-n8-review/
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pho...-692448/review
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobile-pho...view-50000971/

Most HTC Desire reviews are a bit out of date now as there has been a significant OS update, but here goes:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/01/htc-desire-review/
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pho...-679515/review
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobile-pho...view-49305369/

A question for the OP: what phone do you currently have?

Nokias aim for quite a few years now was for Symbian to fill in the low/mid-range devices. Maemo/Meego was always intended to be the higher end products. The idea is (as with cheaper Android devices) that smartphones should not just be higher end. They should be available to everyone.

The N8 is *not* being marketed by Nokia as a flagship model, its being marketed as a mid-range device (the hint is the pricing - circa £300. Possibly CPW and other high street stores may try to do different though.

Development for Symbian/Meego is being rationalised (QT), so one application can be compiled to run on either platform with no re-writing.

I've never quite understood why developers wouldn't be interested in releasing products on the largest selling smartphone platform on the market.

balls is the N8 being marketed as a mid range device, that is a fact that you have just made up. the fact that it's price is reasonable is neither here nor there. it's not circa £300 either. with network subsidy it's about £330, or sim free about £430. the same as other cutting edge phones apart from the iPhone which of course is price controlled.

Dear OP - if you need the best possible camera on a phone get the N8, it can do "everything else" well enough. If "everything else" is more important then get the Desire, its camera is good enough. It really is that simple as far as advice is concerned. As for opinion, well yours is the only one that matters so got to a shop and ask to have a play with both of them and see which YOU prefer. Neither will dissapoint.

It just isn't being marketed as a high end device. High end on specs (which it does better than all the competition) maybe, but not really being marketed as a high end device - Nokia are wanting Meego to take over that position within their range.

I didn't make this up either - look at all the info coming out of Nokia. S40 at the lower end, Symbian low-mid range, Meego being their high end products. They've always had the intention of S40 being replaced by Symbian, but can't see that happening for a long time.

i read everything coming out of nokia. i have to.

there is a long term aspiration to move the high end to MeeGo. but that hasn't happened yet, and there is no strict timetable. Some how you have managed to translate that into the N8 being mid range, there is nothing that has even implied that coming out of nokia. in the mean time Symbian is being used for the Flagship models, including the N8. Your interpretation of the facts is, well, nonsense. by your logic, until they release MeeGo, which could be two years away there will be no high end nokias.

@beavis - with regard to how long will S^3 be supported.:
Nokia have recently removed the distinction between S^3 and S^4 and promised to just develop symbian in a way that that will allow S^3 devices to benefit from the improvements that would have been in S^4. Statement if you care.