sounds like they were looking for an excuse.

interesting though how there moral high ground leads to them disowning their daughter but they feel fit to talk to the press albeit through a 'family friend'

Bekki may be a cartoon Judas but they've sold theur daughter.

And she was cheap too!

I think the main reason this story has an authentic ring is that the brothers are directly quoted... no hint of a "family friend".. that I have seen so far anyway

Its more about community and culture than religion. And why is the family being blamed? I dont know many parents who would be happy to see their kids act like Becki has done. I know people from non-religious backgrounds who have been 'disowned' for a lot less: teenage pregnancies anyone?

Look up the word 'apostate' in relation to Islam and you will understand why she will always be considered by some as being a muslim girl. Islam's not like the Church of England where you can have part time membership, it's a fundamentalist religion. There is no negotiation, and there are severe penalties for turning your back on Islam.

Yahoodlums

what penalties ??

just curious.

got to pick ratboy up from school but i'll read yr answer on my return.

phooey

she obviously isn't a practising Muslem, just like i'm no longer Catholic. Even though i was raised very strictly, and my mum is devout, she respects that i live my life the way i choose, and i respect her faith, even over difficult issues like abortion (equivalent in the Catholic Church as sexual female behaviour to Islam).

Whatever your child does, and however differently they see the world and choose to live in it, if you create a life you are responsible for it.

Children are not possessions you can own or disown - they are every parents responsibility until the day they die.

Any parent who is capable of turning their away child (regardless of age) is not fit to be a parent.

Wow i have never read so many generalisations in one paragraph. 'Islam is a fundamentalist religion' doesnt even make gramatical sense. A fundamentalist is someone who obsesses with the fundamentals OF a religion. So how can a religion be fundamentalist? And being an expert on Islam, would you care to tell me what the 'severe penalities' for leaving the religion are? A quarter of the world's population are Muslim, with varying degrees of belief, and indeed different patterns of belief, some of whom (like myself) choose not to practise. You show incredible ignorance.

Are you not only part of a religion if you live by its rules, though? I'm not having a go, I'm interested to know whether you would still classify yourself as Muslim despite your decision not to practise the religion? Or would you just say you're not religious any longer? A lapsed Muslim, like my mum is a lapsed Catholic?

I am sorry but you are the ignorant one for making this kind of personal attack. I never claimed to be an expert on anything so don't put words into my mouth! And I am really very surprised that my one pargraph contained more generalizations than you have ever read before.... As I suggested before if you wish to know the consequences for someone brought up in the North African/Arabic traditions of Islam, I suggest you look up the word apostate. I will not explain it too you as you obviously don't respect my opinion and are only interested in being rude and defammatory.

For the record I have a lot of family from the middle east and feel I am perfectly qualified to express an opinion on the subjects of Becki's family and religon. Even though you would deny me that privelige.

As far as my grammar being incorrect if you follow the link below you will see it is you who are mistaken:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Fundamentalist

Perhap's I should have said " Islam is a fundamentalist's religon" just to appease the more anally retentive FMs here.

just googled 'muslim apostate'

read the first hit and all i can say is - it's a good job bekki is female!

i just want to put in that my family disowned my older brother for things that he done, its ok for us all to have our own opinions BUT i think you arent to judge the characters of the family for disowning them.

My family is a loving family and we'd do anything for each other and just because we disowned him does that make us horrible, insane people.

I think Beckis family are going too far for what she done, as its all been harmless. BUT if you lived in fear every day of a person regardless of who they are can u honestly say you wouldnt run off just to get rid of the pain and fear that you might be the person who gets hit or beaten next!!

If you'd done everything you could to help that person and they just spat it back at you!! I'm sorry but i was only 18 at the time and my family made the best desision ever to leave, they no longer live in fear, etc!!

There is nothing wrong with my family!!

Oh and my mother is fit to be parent!! The best mum there is actually!!

I sympathise entirely, clairbear, but the case we are discussing is a matter of morals and standards, not of bullying and violence. Everyone is entitled to safeguard their other family members from one who is violent and /or criminal. I think I said earlier that nothing short of cold-blooded murder would make me disown my child.. however if my child was violent towards me.. I would have to consider my own safety as well. Nobody is saying your family is bad for making that decision.. particularly as you state you had exhausted all other possibilities

Well, each case would need to be judged on its own merit. I think to be honest that you're allowing your own emotional experiences to get in the way of a rational debate. I understand that you must feel strongly about this. If your family had a good reason to disown your brother, then you have my every sympathy. Please don't take anything on these forums as a personal comment against you or your family. What we're discussing here is the kind of religious extremism that will make a family choose to disown a child and go to the papers to announce what they've done.

Thank you for your commentsludovica and lleuadgirl, its just when ppl make very nasty comments about people who do disown family then obviously it gets to me which is why had to put my view in, I think Beckis family are being stupid because the reasons for disowning her are ludicrus!! obviously its something they havent thought properly about!!

To be honest, if this is true and her family are speaking to the press about her and disowning her, then she is better off without them.

They sound quick nasty people and I am sure she will be happier without them judging her and trying to live her life.

No, you still have a poor grasp of the English language. A fundamentalist is someone who belives in the basic principles or tenets of any belief system. There are economic fundamentalists just as there are politically ideolodigcal fundamentalists. A religion can not be fundamentalist, and neither can it be a 'fundamentalist's religion'.

From the website you quoted, the defintion of a fundamentalist says:
"fundamentalism can refer to anti-modernist movements in various religions". So to say that "Islam is a fundamentalist's religon" quite clearly makes no sense.

I dont deny you the right to express opinions, but when you make sweeping generalisations covering a quarter of the world's population then of course you're not going to get away with it. There are people in America who think all English people dress and talk in the same way: they are clearly wrong, just as you are.

you can protect your larger family unit without disowning a difficult/challenging/criminal child - you can have structured access without being in danger - you don't have to like your children, but you are responsible for them for your entire life

without family, these people have no moral compass - how else are they to learn the essential values and qualities of forgiveness and change

a parent's ability to completely disown their child because they're difficult, for wahtever reason, whether they are 'socially unacceptable' or 'dangerous', is never justified

Well i hate labels, so i wouldnt call myself anything. And if people did impose those labels on me, i'd clarify them. I'm just difficult! Anyway i hate hypocrits, why say u r something when u arent?

Thankyou, how graciously condescending of you


Actually YOU are the one who made "sweeping generalizations" about "covering a quarter of the world's population", if you reread MY posts on this thread I was quite specifically referring to the quotes attributed to Becki's family, and in addition my opinions were referring to North African/Arabic culture. I NEVER claimed to be an expert or to be making judgements about THE WHOLE world. That was you presumption, I'm afraid. Apology accepted.


I see, so when you make an unsubstanciated comment such as this concerning the USA it is okay, but when I do it, its classed a "sweeping generalization"!!! Hmmm, go figure

Okay, all this being said I plan to put aside our little differences urban469, I would love to have a reasoned debate with you but if you can't construct an argument without it becoming a personal attack on me then I feel continuing a dialogue with you to be pointless and wearisome excercise...

The statement is true. It says "There are people" - which implies at least two out of million upon millions.

And I think I've met them.

Most Moslems are not fundamentalist. Try visiting Turkey and discovering that for yourself rather than believing the image the press gives you.

Originally Posted by yahoodlums: "Islam's not like the Church of England where you can have part time membership, it's a fundamentalist religion. There is no negotiation, and there are severe penalties for turning your back on Islam."

If that's not generalising then i dont know what is. My statement about American views of English people was a comparison to show you how ridiculous your generalisation was!

This is sh!t, pure and simple.

Apostate means someone who has abandoned a belief system. That can cover any belief system. Looking up "apostate" in relation to the Muslim religion will give you "someone who has abandoned a belief in the Muslim religion". It leads you to understand nothing else.

To state that Islam is fundamentalist is a tautology. Look that word up if you don't understand it.

There are interpretations of Islam that are more "fundamentalist" than others. "Islamic fundamentalist" refers to people who cling to literal interpretations of Islam. Just as with Christian fundamentalists, these are a small minority of the whole.

Islam has some pretty intolerant bits, like most religions. When you talk about "part time" membership, this applies to NO religion that I know. You can leave a religion, or be a poor practitioner of that religion, but not be part time.

Ever heard the expression "once a Catholic, always a Catholic"? there are plenty of Christian families that "disown" members because they marry the wrong type of Christian.

Of course Islam has a great number of bigoted, ignorant and intolerant members. It also has a lot of civilised, peace loving, and open minded members. Just like other religions, including Christianity.

By condemning all "Moslems" or all "religions" we just push the good guys back into the camp of the extremists. People who feel they are misunderstood will misunderstand back.

You said the magic words there - 'unconditional love'.

Every child deserves the right to have unconditional love from the people who brought them into this world, not dependant on them complying to whatever set of rules has been decided from a big, fat book that is open to any interpretation you feel like, or dependant on whatever rules joe bloggs down the road has decided for his family. You don't just throw them away when they don't meet the standards.

With a family (allegedly) like that, it's no wonder Becki is seeking fame in the Big Brother house. What do people desperate for fame tend to want? Love, attention, acceptance, affirmation?

Like Ludovica, there's nothing much that would make me disown my children, no matter how much I may disapprove of their actions.