Not me. And at no point are my views on her views in her past career in Parliament going to influence what I think of the way she dances.

To reinforce my point...

*I think Scott Maslen and Kara Tointon are crap actors.
*I think Pamela Stephenson's Guardian sex advice column is facile drivel.
*I have never watched Countryfile.
*I don't actively cheer for Wales during the Six Nations.
*I haven't enjoyed anything that Felicity Kendal has done since The Good Life.

Do any of these thoughts come into my head when I'm rating their ability to dance, or when I'm weighing up whether they 'should' be on the programme?

No. No, no no.

SCD is not bookending Ann's dances with a speech denouncing homosexuality. It is not giving time in Ann's VTs to Catholic bishops cheering her on in the name of the Man Upstairs. It is not promoting her views in any way siply by having her on the programme.

So could all those people who think this forum is the place to denounce a contestant simply for political opinions she has been known to hold, get over themselves and judge the woman on her dancing - which surely is rubbish enough for you to hold her in very poor esteem anyway?

Not living in the UK I know very little about Anns politics .
However , I respects peoples rights to denounce any one for any reason they choose to .
Telling people to get over themselves is one sure fire way of antagonising people with that opinion ,. And to be honest a pointless effort ,as I am sure telling them that is unlikely to have them change their minds.
You cant reallly see Ann on SCD and not see her politics, its her politics and her life in politics that has her there in the first place .
Personally speaking I judge on her dancing and I thinks its absolutley woeful and dreadful and boring .
But defends anyones right to judge her on how they see her .

Having met Ann Widdecombe in the flesh and found her to be one of the rudest people I have ever met I couldn't give a damn what she is or isn't I just wish she would get off my TV screen.

Another lovely, positive thread :yawn: I quite like Ann, but her dancing is awful and I don't find her entertaining.

Delete
Last edited by katie_p : 02-11-2010 at 17:31

I don't think you can equate someone's political beliefs with the other examples you give (which seem to be based on how well you think those people perform their day job?). The issue isn't with how competent as a politician Anne was, it's what she believes. Regardless of vocation, if any of the other contestants made political statements like those Anne has made over the years, I'd consider them inhuman hateful bigots just like I do with Anne. It's kind of hard to put that aside when watching her on SCD, but maybe that's just me

None of the above affects the human rights of sections of our society. Ann's extreme views did just that - so far from getting over myself, I'll decide whether her past should influence my judgement of her and I can assure you my distaste at seeing her on prime time tv each week , making a mockery of one of my favourite programmes, simply inflames my loathing of her.

All of the above so far seems to ignore my original point and focus on the use of the term 'get over themselves'. Always lovely when people consider the whole argument.

My original point being - how is a dislike for a politician's political views any different from a dislike of any other high-profile person's day job, and why should this dislike command so much more forum time than others?

I say this in the interests of getting back to judging people by what we see on the show, rather than what goes on away from it.

I thought this point answered your question quite nicely actually:
Echad is right, someone's political views say something completely different about them than their talent (or lack of) at acting, sport or similar. So you ask if people can forget her rather nasty political views and just think about her dancing- well no, some people can't, and that's why. I would find her distasteful no matter how she danced.

As to why Ann may command more forum time than the other celebs (can't honestly say I've seen a lot of discussion of her political views though)... seems fair enough to me since she also commands more headlines, production, judge commentary etc than the others.

No, but it *is* undeniable that the Strictly production team spin back stories and narratives about the contestants and it *is* of note that Ann's narrative is along the lines of national treasure, given her political career and what she stood for during it.

I personally have no objection to her being on the show, but I personally would *never* vote for her, even if she was the world's best dancer. And I reserve that right - and I also resent people who tell me I how or why I should allocate my vote.

Ner.

Generally I'd agree with you, people's politics are something separate. But I don't think SCD is just giving Ann a chance to dance. It comes across to me as if she is using the show to reinvent herself as some sort of lovable national treasure, and I think the show is going along with that, by giving her Anton and giving her pride of place every week and special extras like the flying, etc. It is about what we see on the show, because it's about how she's using the show. So while I don't want to get into political debate on here myself, if people want to discuss why they don't think Ann is a lovable national treasure because of the policies she backed when she was in power, I think that's fair.

Edit: gorlagon beat me to it!

You were rude.

Many of us are judging Ann on her dancing - it isn't good or entertaining IMO.

Did you really need to slag off the other contestants in order to make your point? That was really helpful. As others have said, the situations aren't really comparable anyway.

The thing is, a lot of the stuff on Strictly is personality based and led.

By virtue of her old day job, we know more about Ann's views on things that speak to us in real life, the important stuff and not whether someone can deliver a line convincingly. I haven't a scooby about what Gavin thinks about women priests, I couldn't tell you if Kara has any thoughts on clause 28 - but Ann's view on this and more is a matter of public record and will affect how people view her.

Ann would know this before she accepted the job though, and it doesn't seem to be doing her much harm at the minute, it has to be said.

I would say the quote in bold goes a fair way to addressing your point as well. Of course a politicians views are more influential and relevant than those of an actor or a sex columnist, these are the people who determine the laws the rest of us live by. They express those views by voting for or against propositions in Parliament eg Ann Widdecombe consistently voting against equality or the promotion of equal rights for gay people.

If you think about it they make a good pair Ann and Anton........Ann has outspoken views that alienate some people and Anton's faux pas last year with Laila offended quite a few people too.

I didn't like or listen to Ann as a politician, and I certainly don't like her as an arrogant celeb on SCD.

I agree with the OP. If she actually preached hatred then I would have reservations about her but she never has. She has strong views which many, including me, do not agree with but she is not hate-full. She's a good sport.

I have more reservations about Anton after last year's outburst. Ann has been good for him, at least.

On the dancing point, I agree that Ann's politics have nothing to do with anything and I would be highly unlikely to vote for her even if she were my ideal political candidate because I just don't enjoy her dancing. However, that's to say that her political views are necessarily entirely irrelevent to how people view her in the programme as a whole.


The part in bold is why I think Ann's political views have been discussed on here. Kara and Scott being apparently rubbish at acting tells me nothing about who they are as a people- I'll have to watch ITT interviews to gain any idea of who they are as opposed to who they have played. Felicity having failed to find a memorable acting role since the 1970s tells me nothing about her personality. Gavin being Welsh tells me literally nothing about who he is and what he's like.

On the other hand Ann's political views and career as a politician tell me quite a lot about how she thinks and what she thinks is important for the simple reason that she's spent half her life peddling for votes based on her personal opinions of various policies. Strictly, as has been proven many times in the past, isn't just a dance competition but is also an entertainment show, and the entertainment part of the equation is largely personality driven. If we judge personality on what people say and how they behave then Ann's political views will affect how some viewers see her. I don't watch Eastenders but even if I did, what Kara or Scott say when in character couldn't tell me anything about what they themselves believed. By contrast, Ann's career has been made by being brutally honest on many different topics and as she has always made a point of being true to herself (criticising her party leader, standing out against fox hunting despite the official party line), it's entirely reasonable to see those views as a part of her personality. I'm not saying that her views have anything to do with Strictly as such or that people should consider them before they vote, but many of us will already have formed an opinion of her personality long before the first ITT interview aired. I can't just forget all the things I already know and just think of her as a sweet old lady- I've considered her as a strong, right-wing politician for far too long.

It's worth noting in brief as well that although I've not seen much evidence of it on here as yet, for all the people who wouldn't support her political views there are many, many people who have voted for her before in far more important elections than this. She has a better track record than any of the other Strictly contestants of being voted into things by the general public so I can't see those of us who are put off by her politics making any real difference in the grand scheme of things.

I think it is you that is missing the point , the fact that you beleive Kara and Scott to be dreadful actors for example has nothing to do with them as people. Ann however has shown herself to be a hateful person with regard to several of her polital views . Scott for example being a bad actor has had no impact on the lives and well being of anyone in this country. Ann politcal views and her political clout that made her voice heard and her opinions acted upon HAS had an effect on peoples lives and ultimately I have alway found her a joyless biggoted women . The fact that it now suits her to play the little old woman gamely allowing herself to be thrown around the dance floor is a picture that is just wrong in every respect .

For instance , she is younger than Felicity and barely 4 yours older than Pamela and you dont see either of these playing on their age at all . She is insisting on being dressed as a vicorian maiden aunt and telling Anton absolutely no sex in the dance so yet again her prejudiced views on life are being promoting. I dont find her amusing at all and even if I didn't have views on her politics I would still not find her amusing and so wish she were off my Tele screen as soon as possible .

Apart from not liking Anne's politics, her 'dancing', her poor delivery of pre-planned ripostes, her being paid 10k a week for damaging my eyeballs and turning me into a heavy drinker, I also very much resented tuning into the Politics Show on sunday morning to see what's happening in the world and getting 20mins of guff about Anne's latest 'performance' instead....Grrrr!

No more politicians of any persuasion on Strictly...PLEASE!

Hear hear!

SCD is, and always has been, a combination of what a celeb does on the dance floor and what the viewer thinks of them as a person. Most viewers would, in the final analysis, tend to go for a celeb who both delivers technically (to a large extent) and entertains on the dance floor and also charms off it.

I have long since ceased to see entertainment in what Ann and Anton are doing on the dance floor - for me it's like watching David Walliams utter "Computer says no," for the umpteenth time; stale and past it. However, even if I enjoyed her performances more than anyone else I couldn't bring myself to support her. I can't give my support to anyone who is known to have the views that she does. So for me, it does matter - not that she's been a politician but the things she's known to believe in/object to. It affects my view of her as a person which I then can't divorce from her performance.

Do her views affect my opinion of whether she's entertaining or not? I don't think so but subconsciously, I suppose it's possible.

^^^ This.
For all we know, celeb A wants unmarried mothers flogged and celeb B would bring back the Dickensian asylums for the mentally ill.
Would it affect the votes for Pam or Matt etc if their views were publicised or would people continue to support them on the way they entertain us in the show?

Anne's political views are just a specific example of a non-dancing related reason for not liking a SCD contestant. The fact that her political views adversely affect people isn't the decisive factor in such reasons, I'd say.

Rachel Stevens being "boring", Austin Healey being "arrogant", Ricky Wittle having no personality, Natalie Lowe being competitive and (apparently) too keen to show herself off, Brendan being a prima donna, Jared not being Ian, Darren or Matt (to give but a few examples) are all stated or heavily implied reasons for contestants/pros being slated here, and none of them have the blindest bit impact on the real world.

There's nothing wrong in this, as it's human nature, and holding such views is equally irrelevant to real life, but it does make it hard to justify Anne's political views as being some sort of moral or higher reason for disliking her in general terms. Obviously, for the individual who feels that way about her then it's obviously right, just as much as it's right for me to vote for Gavin mainly because I like his "non-luvvie" approach to his interviews.

That's basically what I was saying above. A lot of people use a number of factors when deciding which celeb to support and equally when deciding not to. There was no intention to imply that not supporting Ann because of her views was any more moral or justifiable than any other reason anyone may have for supporting (or not) anyone else but as you stated, it still is a reason. And it's the decisive reason in my case as she could be twirling round the floor like a pro and I still wouldn't support her. I'm actually quite grateful she's cr*p.