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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 6)
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Assa2
05-08-2011
I see Renault have confirmed the fire was due to a cracked exhaust which they think occurred before the race and that the crack was up-stream of their sensors hence why it went un-noticed. What they haven't explained is why the Renault exploded. A number of theories including KERS batteries. My personal theory is that the Renault has a US Military style self-destruct mechanism designed to destroy sensitive technologies on the car in the event it stops out on the track to stop the technologies falling into rivals' hands. I bet that's something Flavio would have come up with before he was banned!
Si_Crewe
05-08-2011
TBH, I'm surprised more F1 car fires don't result in similar explosions.
There's the coolant header tank which will be pressurised, the fuel system and they use pressurised oil tanks to lube the engine during periods of high lateral G when the scavenge pump might not be able to pick up oil properly.

It's certainly possible that the KERS unit was responsible and LiPo and Li-Ion batteries do explode (as seen HERE) but they're certainly not the only thing that might go "bang" on an F1 car.

Also, was Darth Flavio actually "banned" in the end?
I thought they (him and the chief engineer) found some loophole which said that they weren't actually members of the FIA, themselves, so they weren't bound by its rules?
Assa2
05-08-2011
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Also, was Darth Flavio actually "banned" in the end?
I thought they (him and the chief engineer) found some loophole which said that they weren't actually members of the FIA, themselves, so they weren't bound by its rules?”

The FIA banned him from ever attending an FIA sanctioned event and stated that they would not award a super-license to any driver he managed, so in effect they made him a persona-non-grata in the motorsport world. His being a member of the FIA was never a factor.

However, it turns out Briatore got the ban overturned when he sued the FIA in the French courts and was awarded compensation, but the FIA appealed that ruling and the two parties reached an out-of-court settlement. The buzz is that in return for keeping his name cleared he has promised to keep away from motorsport. Another shady chapter in F1 history.
Si_Crewe
05-08-2011
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“However, it turns out Briatore got the ban overturned when he sued the FIA in the French courts and was awarded compensation, but the FIA appealed that ruling and the two parties reached an out-of-court settlement. The buzz is that in return for keeping his name cleared he has promised to keep away from motorsport. Another shady chapter in F1 history.”

I thought it ended up being more of an "informal agreement" in the end, rather than an outright ban.

I seem to recall that there was some outrage at the time on the basis that, for example, a pitlane mechanic who also isn't a member of the FIA could, in theory, do naughty things, and it'd be impossible for the FIA to penalise them in any direct way.

I was living Spain at the time and I got most of my info' in Spanish, from RTL, as well as what I could find on the internet so I didn't really get the full picture.

I notice that Briatore was still to be found shmoozing around at the Force-India party in Monaco this year though.
I assume he still manages one or other of their drivers or summat.
lettice
06-08-2011
Ive won a vip vodafone prize, a pair of Vodafone VIP tickets to visit the McLaren Technology Centre in a few weeks time, as follows;

'Vodafone McLaren Mercedes are opening their doors to Vodafone VIP customers for an exclusive viewing. You’ll be able to see their cutting-edge technology, cars, trophies and much more. Plus Lewis Hamilton will be there to talk about the season so far and the build up to the 2011 Formula One BelgianGrand Prix'

Anybody been there? I know there have been a few other days like these recently.
Sounds an interesting evening, so I will be going and looking forward
Si_Crewe
06-08-2011
I was at the McLaren HQ a couple of times but it was ten years ago.
Not even sure if the "McLaren Technology Centre" is even the same building I visited.

It was very impressive when I was there. It looked more like an Apple shop than an engineering company.

Congrat's on the day trip though. I'm sure you'll be very impressed. From what I've seen on the telly it's amazing.
Assa2
08-08-2011
A friend of mine used to work for McLaren. As a grease monkey he said it was like working in a cross between a modern art gallery and a library. You had to be obsessivley clean and there was no room for anything other than work. He didn't stay very long - the worst place of work he'd ever had was his view. I guess when you are used to working in a typical garage environment with constant noise, chat, oil etc... going to the prestine environment of an F1 team is going to be a shock. He did say the 'Mercedes' company car scheme was very good, though!
Assa2
14-08-2011
Shameless bump - half way through the summer break. Any news from the F1 world?
Stunty
14-08-2011
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“Shameless bump - half way through the summer break. Any news from the F1 world?”

The break gives Bernie and his mate Fabio time to concentrate on the start of the football season.

Button has been on holiday, snaps of him and girlfriend on the beach in some on-line newspaper.


No ... nothing really!
ACU
15-08-2011
'A feel good factor' story.

Good to see Mercedes helping out here....good on them.
Assa2
15-08-2011
Originally Posted by Stunty:
“The break gives Bernie and his mate Fabio time to concentrate on the start of the football season.

Button has been on holiday, snaps of him and girlfriend on the beach in some on-line newspaper.


No ... nothing really! ”

I was going to mention the fotty but decided against. I saw that Flavio was at the game but didn't see Bernie. Apparently they're looking to sell their shares. The result on Saturday won't help the value.
ACU
22-08-2011
Did anyone catch the Grand Prix program on BBC2 last night? It was to do with the 60/70s when deaths in F1 were common, and how they drivers got together to improve safety.

I havent watched it myself, have got it recorded, so will watch it this evening.
Heavenly
22-08-2011
Originally Posted by ACU:
“Did anyone catch the Grand Prix program on BBC2 last night? It was to do with the 60/70s when deaths in F1 were common, and how they drivers got together to improve safety.

I havent watched it myself, have got it recorded, so will watch it this evening.”

It was excellent, I had no idea what went on with F1 at that period, I found it fascinating and quite chilling and unbelievable. Some difficult scenes shown in it.
manforktorch
22-08-2011
Originally Posted by ACU:
“Did anyone catch the Grand Prix program on BBC2 last night? It was to do with the 60/70s when deaths in F1 were common, and how they drivers got together to improve safety.

I havent watched it myself, have got it recorded, so will watch it this evening.”

I think I saw that when it first was on, was very enlightening on how far safety has come and how lackadaisical the organisers were.

The one I keep missing is the Murray Walker retrospective.
allthingsuk
22-08-2011
Originally Posted by ACU:
“Did anyone catch the Grand Prix program on BBC2 last night? It was to do with the 60/70s when deaths in F1 were common, and how they drivers got together to improve safety.

I havent watched it myself, have got it recorded, so will watch it this evening.”

I saw it. It really hits home how deaths in F1 in the 50s and 60s were 'normal' occurrences, and it also hits home how shocking amateurish safety standards were in F1 at the time (i.e. I think one of the journalists in the show mentioned that at one race which I believe was Spa, the medical support drivers expected to receive came in the form of nuns...) The shot of Jim Clark's wrecked car at Hockenheim meanwhile was shocking. Jochen Rindt - another great driver killed and the first posthumous world champion. And though safety improved in the 70s and 80s, the air of complacency over safety that reigned over F1 in the early 90's set the horrific precedent of Imola 1994. It wasn't until then that F1 took further, more stringent strides to drastically improve driver safety.
Baccattack
23-08-2011
The FIA have banned the use of DRS through Eu Rouge in pratice and qualifing What a joke, as I saw another poster put it over on the Autosport forums
Quote:
“They might aswell just ban it for every corner and have designated zones for qualifying/practice if they're going to start doing this. "We're worried drivers might push too hard and have an accident" for **** sake, I mean for seriously ****s sake.”

How is this any different from the V12/V10 era when cars didn't have downforce levels that glued them to track at all times. Back then it was up to the driver to build up speed through out the weekend in time for that magical qualy lap and the race. Some drivers pushed a litle to hard and got it wrong, see Villeneuve's crashes, while others got it right. The drivers have a brain, let them use it.
Mark F
23-08-2011
Shocking in someways that the drivers were allowed to go out and perform in such circumstances with little safety for them or the fans and they must have been pretty fearful inside one mistake/slight wrong movement could end their life.
allthingsuk
23-08-2011
Originally Posted by Baccattack:
“The FIA have banned the use of DRS through Eu Rouge in pratice and qualifing What a joke, as I saw another poster put it over on the Autosport forums

How is this any different from the V12/V10 era when cars didn't have downforce levels that glued them to track at all times. Back then it was up to the driver to build up speed through out the weekend in time for that magical qualy lap and the race. Some drivers pushed a litle to hard and got it wrong, see Villeneuve's crashes, while others got it right. The drivers have a brain, let them use it.”

I agree with you but Villeneuve's accident in 1999 was shocking, as was Zanardi's in 1993. But let us not forget this is not the first time the FIA have had a kneejerk reaction to safety - remember that god-awful chicane they installed temporarily in 1994.
Assa2
24-08-2011
Where is the DRS zone for the race?

I would have thought most teams would be running relatively low down force anyway so not having DRS through Eu Rouge shouldn't make a huge difference.
ACU
24-08-2011
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“I saw it. It really hits home how deaths in F1 in the 50s and 60s were 'normal' occurrences, and it also hits home how shocking amateurish safety standards were in F1 at the time (i.e. I think one of the journalists in the show mentioned that at one race which I believe was Spa, the medical support drivers expected to receive came in the form of nuns...) The shot of Jim Clark's wrecked car at Hockenheim meanwhile was shocking. Jochen Rindt - another great driver killed and the first posthumous world champion. And though safety improved in the 70s and 80s, the air of complacency over safety that reigned over F1 in the early 90's set the horrific precedent of Imola 1994. It wasn't until then that F1 took further, more stringent strides to drastically improve driver safety.”

I have seen the program now. It was shocking the number of drivers and spectators that were getting killed...and no one gave adamn. I dont think Colin Chapman came out of the program to well. It seemed as though it didnt matter if someone died in his car, as long as it was the fastest car. Although Fittipaldi, did say otherwise at the end.

Also some of the drivers couldnt care attitude towards changes, when the likes of Jackie were pushing for changes was somewhat unbelievable...its like they werent bothered.

One thing that will stay with me from the program was David Purley stopping during the race, and trying to help Williamson out of a burning car. He tried to right the overturned car, but was unable to do so. He begged other drivers to stop the race and help as well as the marshalls. Yet no one really cared. A couple of marshalls came over yet didnt want to get to close to the burning car. At one point you could see him grabbing the fire extinguisher trying to put the fire out in vain. Seeing him walk away dejected, I can only imagine how he felt. What a man.

A Youtube clip of the incident.
Heavenly
24-08-2011
Originally Posted by ACU:
“One thing that will stay with me from the program was David Purley stopping during the race, and trying to help Williamson out of a burning car. He tried to right the overturned car, but was unable to do so. He begged other drivers to stop the race and help as well as the marshalls. Yet no one really cared. A couple of marshalls came over yet didnt want to get to close to the burning car. At one point you could see him grabbing the fire extinguisher trying to put the fire out in vain. Seeing him walk away dejected, I can only imagine how he felt. What a man.

A Youtube clip of the incident.”

That was the bit that stayed with me as well. He received a medal for bravery. He looked absolutely distraught when he had to leave the car.
allthingsuk
24-08-2011
Originally Posted by ACU:
“I have seen the program now. It was shocking the number of drivers and spectators that were getting killed...and no one gave adamn. I dont think Colin Chapman came out of the program to well. It seemed as though it didnt matter if someone died in his car, as long as it was the fastest car. Although Fittipaldi, did say otherwise at the end.

Also some of the drivers couldnt care attitude towards changes, when the likes of Jackie were pushing for changes was somewhat unbelievable...its like they werent bothered.

One thing that will stay with me from the program was David Purley stopping during the race, and trying to help Williamson out of a burning car. He tried to right the overturned car, but was unable to do so. He begged other drivers to stop the race and help as well as the marshalls. Yet no one really cared. A couple of marshalls came over yet didnt want to get to close to the burning car. At one point you could see him grabbing the fire extinguisher trying to put the fire out in vain. Seeing him walk away dejected, I can only imagine how he felt. What a man.

A Youtube clip of the incident.”

Absolutely appaling and really heartwrenching as well. It was as if it was left to the fellow drivers (or one brave driver) to take safety into their own hands, not the marshals. I agree that the programme did not show Colin Chapman in a good light - it seemed like he was craving for every once of performance, no matter the consequence. Possibly this is reflected in Jochen Rindt's accident in 1970 at Monza - they wanted as minimal downforce as possible to get as much gain on the straights, and unfortunately, a car failure caused him to crash. Needless to say, Chapman was under manslaughter charges in Italy, not in Britain though. But then the attitude that Colin Chapman had is reflected in every top designer today, wanting to push the limits of performance, even if, every so often, it goes wrong.
ACU
24-08-2011
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Absolutely appaling and really heartwrenching as well. It was as if it was left to the fellow drivers (or one brave driver) to take safety into their own hands, not the marshals. I agree that the programme did not show Colin Chapman in a good light - it seemed like he was craving for every once of performance, no matter the consequence. Possibly this is reflected in Jochen Rindt's accident in 1970 at Monza - they wanted as minimal downforce as possible to get as much gain on the straights, and unfortunately, a car failure caused him to crash. Needless to say, Chapman was under manslaughter charges in Italy, not in Britain though. But then the attitude that Colin Chapman had is reflected in every top designer today, wanting to push the limits of performance, even if, every so often, it goes wrong.”

The big difference today is that they have testing, simulations, computers crunching numbers. Any new parts, are tested (stress/impact tests) before they even get onto the car. Also the safety and facilities at tracks is a lot higher than in those days. Thus pushing the limits is a safer thing to do.
allthingsuk
24-08-2011
Originally Posted by ACU:
“The big difference today is that they have testing, simulations, computers crunching numbers. Any new parts, are tested (stress/impact tests) before they even get onto the car. Also the safety and facilities at tracks is a lot higher than in those days. Thus pushing the limits is a safer thing to do.”

Yes you're absolutely right. They can still get it wrong on occasion (i.e. the Renault with their forward-facing exhausts, the possible cause of their two/three fires this season.)
Tadpole
24-08-2011
Tom Cruise drives a Red Bull F1 car:http://www.tomcruise.com/blog/2011/08/22/10471/
there does not appear to be any video of this available yet. Looks like it happened on Monday.
DC was in attendance at the race track in California.
DC:
Quote:
“"Tom’s the real deal. I was surprised that he picked it up so quickly and is such an accomplished driver. His recall was incredible considering how complicated driving an F1 car is. He’s a guy who really pushes the envelope in real life. This day was not green screened. And he thoroughly impressed me.””

Also reported on topgear.com, and the Red Bull Racing website.
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