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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 6)
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Si_Crewe
17-11-2011
I see the Yanks are as good at producing F1 races as they've proven to be at providing drivers.

Clicky!
Si_Crewe
17-11-2011
Originally Posted by Liamforking:
“No, a change in gear ratios does not equate to a new gearbox. Teams alter the gear ratios during free practice and these ratios only have to be 'locked-in' before qualifying starts and parc ferme rules take effect.”

Worth mentioning, as well, that apparently all teams decide on what gear ratios they plan to use at each race BEFORE the start of the season.

They can't just bring a box of gears and put it all together however they like during the race weekend.

That was, apparently, the reason why Lewis Hamilton's car was so horribly under-geared at Spa. Somebody got the sums wrong.

TBH, I dunno what effect this has on the whole "gearbox rule" though.
I dunno if, for example, the teams put together gear-trains that are, somehow, sealed by the FIA or whether the individual gears have serial numbers which're checked.

Given that the gear ratios ARE pre-assigned at the start of the season, I guess they take gearboxes with THOSE ratios in to each race and that's their lot.

I suppose there's always the worry that teams might replace worn internal parts between races but I guess that'd be easy enough to police by putting the gearboxes in crates with an FIA seal on them so they can't be tampered with except at races, where they're under FIA scrutiny.
welwynrose
17-11-2011
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I see the Yanks are as good at producing F1 races as they've proven to be at providing drivers.

Clicky!”

Not surprised really
bingoman
17-11-2011
Are F1 and Berne really going to walk away from the US GP again, is the Contract not being signed the real case
welwynrose
17-11-2011
Originally Posted by bingoman:
“Are F1 and Berne really going to walk away from the US GP again, is the Contract not being signed the real case”

Isn't the New Jersey street race still going ahead
Si_Crewe
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by welwynrose:
“Isn't the New Jersey street race still going ahead”

There's nothing to say it won't.

Course, investors might get cold feet if Austin collapses and, frankly, I think F1 needs another half-assed street race like a hole in the head.

There seems to be this idea that a street race is glamorous, just like Monaco is, so it's the thing to do.
That's wrong.
Monaco is glamorous so F1 puts up with racing in the streets there.
If the Monaco circuit could be replicated in Bradford (no offence to Bradford) does anybody think that F1 would go to Bradford to race?

The Oz race is (IIRC) the only "street" circuit on the calender that actually provides decent racing and that's cos it goes through a honking great park rather that through actual streets.

F1 needs more races like Spa and Suzuka and less like bloody Singapore and Valencia.
Assa2
18-11-2011
The Austin race has suffered from the usual powrful bargaining of BE. As soon as the New Jersey race was announced this race was in trouble. There really isn't room for 2 US races at this point and there's no competition between a race in Texas and a race on New York's doorstep. The original negotiation should have included an exclusivity clause although at the time this was first being negotiated I doubt anyone suspected a second US race would be on the cards. It does sound a bit like BE has done things in bad faith IMO. He knows with the NJ race it would mean empty stands at Austin which would look very bad for F1 so it's easier to drop the Austin race. I won't be surprised if the track developers issue legal proceedings against BE now. It's a shame because the circuit looked good. Presumably this also solves the busy end of next season problem the teams were complaining about. Everyone wins... except for the poor people building a new F1 track which will not get to host an F1 race. Austin and Donnington should be twinned!
Assa2
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by charter:
“...and Schumacher deliberately turned in on Damon Hill at Adelaide in 1994..

The race was won by Nigel Mansell - it was his 31st & final victory and his only win on a street circuit.”

Originally Posted by Liamforking:
“His only street circuit win, didn't know that, thanks.”

In F1 at least. His next race was his first in Indy racing, also in Australia (Surfers Paradise), also on a street circuit and he went out and won. He won the Championship that year and as at the time no-one had clinched the 1993 F1 DC he was technically the F1 & Indy champion at the same time, the only driver ever to hold both championships.

Mansell was an amazing driver and I think is slightly underated because of only winning one F1 title.
Devon Miles
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“In F1 at least. His next race was his first in Indy racing, also in Australia (Surfers Paradise), also on a street circuit and he went out and won. He won the Championship that year and as at the time no-one had clinched the 1993 F1 DC he was technically the F1 & Indy champion at the same time, the only driver ever to hold both championships.

Mansell was an amazing driver and I think is slightly underated because of only winning one F1 title.”

Yeah, I've always thought Mansell was underated, wouldn't surprise me if in a good few years to come if Vettel doesn't try and equal that record as well!
Si_Crewe
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by Devon Miles:
“Yeah, I've always thought Mansell was underated, wouldn't surprise me if in a good few years to come if Vettel doesn't try and equal that record as well!”

To be fair to numbskull, I think it's a bit unfair the way they're saying Vettel has "beaten" his record of 13 poles in one season.

When Mansell set that record there were only 16 races on the calendar. There's 19 this year.
Mansell put the car on pole at 81% of the races.
Even if Vettel gets pole in Brazil, he'll still have only achieved pole 79% of the time.
Assa2
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“To be fair to numbskull, I think it's a bit unfair the way they're saying Vettel has "beaten" his record of 13 poles in one season.

When Mansell set that record there were only 16 races on the calendar. There's 19 this year.
Mansell put the car on pole at 81% of the races.
Even if Vettel gets pole in Brazil, he'll still have only achieved pole 79% of the time.”

Quite right. I never realised Mansell had that record. Which season was it? 1992 I presume. To manage that with Senna still racing is pretty awesome.
dsweetenham
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“1992 I presume. To manage that with Senna still racing is pretty awesome.”

It did help that the Newey-designed FW14B was ridiculously fast (spot the coincidence).

Take Silverstone qualifying as an example,

1.) N. Mansell (Williams) 1’18.965
2.) R. Patrese (Williams) 1’20.884
3.) A. Senna (McLaren) 1’21.706

(no one else within 3 seconds)

In the race he was 20 seconds clear after 10 laps! Of course making Patrese look that bad was an achievement in itself (a bit like Vettel vs Webber).
Si_Crewe
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by dsweetenham:
“It did help that the Newey-designed FW14B was ridiculously fast (spot the coincidence).”

Gotta love the FW14B

I found another video of it on YT where it's jumping around like a gang-banger's low-rider but I can't seem to find it now.
dsweetenham
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Gotta love the FW14B

I found another video of it on YT where it's jumping around like a gang-banger's low-rider but I can't seem to find it now.”

Just imagine if they had ever got the FW15C with CVT on track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto

Racing would of sounded a whole lot different for a start!
Legin
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“The Austin race has suffered from the usual powrful bargaining of BE. As soon as the New Jersey race was announced this race was in trouble. There really isn't room for 2 US races at this point and there's no competition between a race in Texas and a race on New York's doorstep. The original negotiation should have included an exclusivity clause although at the time this was first being negotiated I doubt anyone suspected a second US race would be on the cards. It does sound a bit like BE has done things in bad faith IMO. He knows with the NJ race it would mean empty stands at Austin which would look very bad for F1 so it's easier to drop the Austin race. I won't be surprised if the track developers issue legal proceedings against BE now. It's a shame because the circuit looked good. Presumably this also solves the busy end of next season problem the teams were complaining about. Everyone wins... except for the poor people building a new F1 track which will not get to host an F1 race. Austin and Donnington should be twinned!”

The Austin Race has been canned because there was no way on this earth that the circuit would be ready in time. The whole contract argument is just smoke and mirrors to cover the fact the project is way behind schedule. The race will be run from 2013 now. There is a massive interest in F1 in the US and it also makes a great place to visit for overseas fans with much less risk and much better infrastructure.

Donnington was never going to happen it was a dream that briefly came to life until somebody realised that they had to pay for it. The circuit has now ben returned to its former "glory" almost as if nothing had ever happened.
gomezz
18-11-2011
If only. The best viewing location has been bulldozed into oblivion.
Legin
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“If only. The best viewing location has been bulldozed into oblivion.”

Yeah, I said almost
Legin
18-11-2011
Originally Posted by dsweetenham:
“It did help that the Newey-designed FW14B was ridiculously fast (spot the coincidence).

Take Silverstone qualifying as an example,

1.) N. Mansell (Williams) 1’18.965
2.) R. Patrese (Williams) 1’20.884
3.) A. Senna (McLaren) 1’21.706

(no one else within 3 seconds)

In the race he was 20 seconds clear after 10 laps! Of course making Patrese look that bad was an achievement in itself (a bit like Vettel vs Webber).”

The FW14B was the only car with active suspension, that gave it a huge advantage over all its rivals. There were no rules restricting active suspension then so the car was essentially a different class to all the others.

McLaren had only introduced semi-automatic gearboxes for the 1992 season and just like everybody else that did it, they had teething troubles with theirs, just like Williams had the year before and Ferrari before that. McLaren actually took 6 cars to the Brazilian GP which was at the start (the second race I think) of the season. They took 3 of their '92 cars and 3 updated '91 cars as they were so nervous about reliability. They chose to run the '92 cars and the gearboxes played up causing Senna to retire quite early on.

The combination of the Active Williams and the unreliable McLaren made the '92 season a bit of a stroll for Mansell but he never admitted it. He always said it wasn't easy when pressed in post race interviews.

Senna's performances in '92 were much more impressive....

...and that V12 Honda sounded so nasty it made the hairs on my neck stand up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2pvMhF8BEI
Si_Crewe
19-11-2011
Originally Posted by Legin:
“The combination of the Active Williams and the unreliable McLaren made the '92 season a bit of a stroll for Mansell but he never admitted it. He always said it wasn't easy when pressed in post race interviews.”

Dunno about that.

I recall watching one interview with Mansell where he actually said "the car pretty-much does it all for you".

In context, he went on to talk about how all he had to do was point it at an apex and he didn't have to worry about the front or back end sliding if he went over kerbs, braked or accelerated but, at the time, when he said "the car does it all for you" I thought "Blimey, that's not the sort of thing you want to broadcast too loudly".
Legin
19-11-2011
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Dunno about that.

I recall watching one interview with Mansell where he actually said "the car pretty-much does it all for you".

In context, he went on to talk about how all he had to do was point it at an apex and he didn't have to worry about the front or back end sliding if he went over kerbs, braked or accelerated but, at the time, when he said "the car does it all for you" I thought "Blimey, that's not the sort of thing you want to broadcast too loudly". ”

In the post race interviews broadcast at the time the interviewer constantly pressured Mansell to admit it had been an easy win and he always said no it hadn't been easy. This was to me a particularly memorable part of the season.

I don't think it was that difficult for a talented charger like Mansell to win in that car, the difficulty would be the physical challenge as the car generated such large cornering forces compared to the ordinary cars, therefore the difficulty would arise from driving the car at its limits for a whole grand prix which would be more demanding than the regular design.
Si_Crewe
20-11-2011
Originally Posted by Legin:
“In the post race interviews broadcast at the time the interviewer constantly pressured Mansell to admit it had been an easy win and he always said no it hadn't been easy. This was to me a particularly memorable part of the season.

I don't think it was that difficult for a talented charger like Mansell to win in that car, the difficulty would be the physical challenge as the car generated such large cornering forces compared to the ordinary cars, therefore the difficulty would arise from driving the car at its limits for a whole grand prix which would be more demanding than the regular design.”

Indeed.

I know it's his own fault but in those days the drivers weren't as fit as they are now.
I suspect that a lot of Mansells "It's never easy to win" rhetoric stemmed from the physical exertion required rather than anything to do with how compliant the car was.

My over-riding memories over Mansell were the times when they had do drag him, semi-conscious, out of the car after the race.

I suppose when you're in that state after a race you probably don't feel like it was a particularly "easy" race, even if the car was 3 seconds a lap quicker than anybody elses.
North Downs
23-11-2011
You'd think that Santander would know better as they sponser McLaren, but they have that ad on the radio that goes on about the F1 race starting on the green light.

I wish someone would tell them.
gomezz
23-11-2011
As I was jogging in the park earlier past a pack of dogs I was keeping an watch on them to make sure they were not going to jump up at me using the "Look but never stare" method, as making eye contact is not a good idea.
Si_Crewe
25-11-2011
Kinda interesting...

It was noted that None of the team principals were around during FP1 today.
At first it was noted that Ross Brawn wasn't around cos, as well as being Team Principle he's Merc's Technical Director so he really should have been around for a track session but then it was realised that all the TPs were absent.

Seems that Bernie had scheduled a meeting earlier in the day and it'd over-run quite substantially.

Seems that they were discussing all sorts of thorny subjects such as budgets, royalties and the 2012 calendar and, obviously, it had created quite a lot of debate.

Wonder if anything will be said in public?
Legin
25-11-2011
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Kinda interesting...

It was noted that None of the team principals were around during FP1 today.
At first it was noted that Ross Brawn wasn't around cos, as well as being Team Principle he's Merc's Technical Director so he really should have been around for a track session but then it was realised that all the TPs were absent.

Seems that Bernie had scheduled a meeting earlier in the day and it'd over-run quite substantially.

Seems that they were discussing all sorts of thorny subjects such as budgets, royalties and the 2012 calendar and, obviously, it had created quite a lot of debate.

Wonder if anything will be said in public?”

I believe the Resource Restriction Agreement was being discussed in particular. Not sure there is unanimity amongst the teams on this issue. It is known that Ferrari would prefer a relaxation as they have a test track in their back garden that they are not allowed to use.
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