FW= Frank Warren.

Hand picked opponents to make him more £££.

Yes, FW takes some of the blame but not all of it!
Imo, JC showed a terrible lack of ambition to try and prove himself the best at his weight.
All non American fighters at sometime go to America to take on the best when they are at their best. JC came up with BS story about having a fear of flying. FW claimed they made an offer to Roy Jones to come over here but he turned it down. They made that offer knowing full well Jones said he'd never fight abroad after being robbed of Olympic Gold.

Though i'd rate JC higher than the likes of Froch or Hatton, i still respect them more because they both wanted to beat the very best at their best.
It's why the Pacman will go down as a great, even though he's lost several fights. Unfortunately, there will always be big question mark against the record of JC.

The thing I don't agree with is the insinuation that Calzaghe was ducking all these better fighters. Apart from Roy Jones, who else was there at his weight that he "avoided" at the time? (genuine question as I can't remember).

Will have to check but pretty sure that it wasn't until the better fighters left FW that they had big fights.

Ottke, Michalczewski, younger Glen Johnson, younger Hopkins.

Calzaghe is a small town lad, he was never truly comfortable outside of it during his boxing career or after it really. I'd have him to beat Ward and take the piss out of Froch, but it's fair to say that he lacked confidence and was happy to sit on the title for a fair chunk of his career. In his prime he was fighting such superstars as Tocker Pudwill and Will McIntyre. Heck, It took his dad and Frank Warren to convince him not to pull out of the Lacy fight with a spurious "hand injury".

Warren isn't a fool, he'll match his fighters tough if they're good enough and not if they're not. Prince Naz was never protected, for example (apart from against a young JMM - like I say, he isn't a fool), whereas Nathan Cleverly was. Hatton had his WBU reign of terror for about a year too long, but it was Warren who got him his shot at Tszyu, who was high in a lot of people's P4P list at the time.

I've heard some nonsense in my time but your nonsense opinion of JC has to be the best. Froch is not fit to lace his gloves and is one very lucky man that JC never got into the ring with him. froch is a one dimensional fighter that leads with his chin, calzaghes speed would have destroyed him.

When you say never fought the best I an assuming you thought that the Jeff lacy fight would go just like it did yes? Or that Kessler wasn't twice the fighter when he fought JC as the one that fought froch. That Kessler would have knocked froch out. So would have lacy, whose career was all but ended by JC such was the beating.

If you had watched the recent ringside with JC and Jones you would understand the reasons it never came to be.

I can only tell you that froch will never ever beat ward nor I suspect does he want too try again. However could you say that same thing if JC was to fight ward, I think not.

The Ottke who never left Germany (of course it's Calzaghe's fault for not travelling to Germany, it's not Ottke's fault ), the Michalczewski who never left Germany and fought at Light Heavyweight his whole career. Hopkins probably had no intention of moving up in weight when in his prime earlier in his career and Johnson was dangerous but wasn't all that great.

You're probably right about Calzaghe's attitude to some extent but I still think it's wrong to say there were all these great fights out there for him and it was all his fault they didn't happen.

I'm no fan of Ottke, the Reid and Johnson fights were nothing short of criminal, and Calzaghe would've handled him easily, but the point stands that there was never any serious attempt by either side to make it happen. Michalczewski was a light heavy you're right, but I recall Calzaghe talking of moving up around 2002, and regardless, it's not exactly a huge jump. That's what ambitious fighters do. Certainly with Johnson he had no intention of fighting him, it was a done deal and he pulled out of it numerous times.

I'm probably sounding like I dislike Calzaghe, which couldn't be further from the truth, but it's true that he just wasn't very ambitious. I think he retired too early too, and I suspect he does as well. When he beat Hopkins the Yanks' next big thing was supposed to be Kelly Pavlik, and we all saw what Hopkins ended up doing to him. If Calzaghe had done that (and he would've done) then his legacy would look a lot better.

In previous post i said i rated JC higher than Froch. It's just that i much preferred to watch Froch as a fighter and respected him more.
At 'world level' I'd rate JC above Eubanks, Benn, Collins, and Hatton as well!

However, my opinion of him as a true great will never change!

Imho, he never beat a single great fighter at their peak, during his entire career!
Kessler was nothing more than a good European level style of fighter. Good, strong, but very predictable, robotic, slow, easy to hit and really just the kind of fighter the really class Americans used to eat for breakfast.

Lacey was massively overrated and was nothing more than a crude, slow, square on, easy to hit slugger, Yet another fighter who beat up a few moderate fighters and landed a world championship belt due to there being so many belts to fight for.

Where was Joe when Jones, Hopkins, Tarver, Toney were at their peaks? Back home fighting 4th rate WBO fighters and often looking rather average in doing so. Some of his fights and performances were frankly quite dreadful and he looked nowhere near good enough to tackle the real top fighters.

Even when JC fought a totally shot Jones, who's speed, reflexes, punch resistance had completely gone, he threw 1000 punches and still couldn't KO him. Even journeymen fighters have been KO Jones.
The significant thing for me in that fight was the knockdown, for which JC said he didn't see coming. If you take a look at that punch you'll see Jones hit him more with his wrist, rather than a full fist.
Had JC fought a peaktime Jones, he'd have needed to deal with dozens and dozens of punches coming at him much, much faster, much, much harder and coming at him in combinations from all kinds of angles.
It is my honest belief he'd have been completely embarrassed, outclassed and stopped within a few rounds.

Then we can go on to the Hopkins fight.
Again, decked, by a guy who was over 40 years old.
Losing, and frankly being made to look second rate until Hopkins ran out of steam in the closing few rounds, enabling JC to scrape home by the skin of his teeth.
A Hopkins in his 30's would have cantered to a very easy win imho.
I say that as someone who can't stand Hopkins, and find him very boring to watch.

I'm not sure about that. Most people would expect him to have beaten the likes of Pavlik and Ottke and people would be using them as other examples of him not beating the 'very best'. Like I said before, I do agree though that he wasn't the most ambitious of fighters.


I still think you need to take account of how Calzaghe changed during his career too. It seemed clear to me that later in his career he was looking to win on points more than knock out opponents (this is where all the claims of 'powder puff' punching come from). He was punching with a lot more venom and intent earlier in his career and I find it hard to believe this wasn't related to all his hand injuries (no I don't believe he was exaggerating them or saying he had broken bones when he didn't).

This is the kind of talk about JC that really fascinates me. Why are all the fights that did not happen JC's fault?

Kessler no good, lacey over rated, all with hindsight and made to look that way by a great fighter. I bet you were telling everyone how lacey would KO JC before the fight

Now over rated applies to say Hopkins, the very boring fighter you have accused JC of being. Hopkins the fighter who got beat by Taylor twice in exactly the same way. Taylor who himself was simply ordinary, but had Froch well beaten for all but 30 seconds.

Made to look second rate? (when you say these things clearly shows your bias) JC was a clear winner against Hopkins
In the end, judges Chuck Giampa (116-111) and Ted Gimza (115-112) scored the fight for Calzaghe, while judge Adalaide Byrd (114-113) scored the fight for Hopkins.
HBO's unofficial ringside judge Harold Lederman scored the bout 116-111 for Calzaghe.

Only one judge failed to see it as clearly as anyone else, however if your going to hold Hopkins up as some great then at least concede JC beat him right after he beat tarver and Wright and before he destroyed Pavlik, so hardly a shot fighter and the same result against Hopkins would have happened at any age.

The only case that has any merit is an in his prime Jones Jr but even he admits it would have been a very difficult fight to call.

This is my feeling too. For all the names people try to come up with, we all know it's basically about Roy Jones Jr.

Herbie Hide has been locked up for 22 months for selling cocaine

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-25157007

Surprised me that he's only 42. Seems ages ago that he was champion

How sad that a man who came from nothing, became a millionaire, yet ends up a criminal in prison.

I used to like Hide as a fighter.

I watched a lot of his early fights live, as I was a student living in Ilford in the early 90s & I have to say he is the hardest hitter I've seen live & I've watched Lennox Lewis & Mike Tyson (although Tyson was in abig arena) live.

For such a small guy, Hide could really bang with authority & he was blisteringly fast too.

He wasn't a world class fighter, even though he twice held the WBO trinket, but he was exciting to watch & he was certainly a loose cannon.

In the most unsurprising news ever, it kicked off between Bellew and Stevenson at the weigh in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBhHJrNfKG8

If Tony could fight as well as he talks he'd be a world champion no worries. Hope he wins though. Stevenson is a chilling Julian Jackson-esque puncher but he can be stopped if Bellew weathers the early storm and doesn't eat too many. Big if though.

I wish Bellew was a heavyweight, his pre-fight build up with Chisora would be the best ever

That's true, Stevenson is a killer.

Bellew's going to have to box like Herol Graham, but unlike Graham (versus Julian Jackson), he cannot leave his chin hanging out for a split second, or it will be *BOOM* & lights out for Tony.

I see that Froch is trying to duck the rematch with Groves, from what ive heard. I dont see what other fight is out there for him, Ward would beat him comfortably and Golovkin would finish him. Golovkins next fight is in monte carlo apparently and Froch wants to fight in vegas so i cant see them two fighting. And apparently Ward and Hopkins are trying to agree a deal to fight, its what i heard, hope theres at least some truth to it.

Good boxing on tonight. Kovalev and Stevenson. Tony the bell is getting knocked clean out.

Kovalev vs Stevenson would be good.

Really hope Bellew wins tonight. Has a chance if he can avoid the bombs, but honestly think he will come up short.

Hope I am wrong though.

As for Froch. Would not surprise me if he didn't fight Groves again. Knows he was very lucky.

Gutted for Bomber. Just couldn't live with the power and accuracy of Stevenson.

No harm in that though, plenty of people will struggle against that type of power.

Stevenson won every round IMO and showed that he is a class act.

Would love to see Stevenson against Kovlak. Looks like a genuine possibility too.

As for Bomber, he can come again. He is a good fighter with a great heart and I am sure that one day he can be a world champion.

Moving up to cruiser apparently. He's certainly got a better chance of winning a title there than light heavy.

Stevenson sounded like he didn't want much to do with Kovalev, but who would I suppose. It would be a good fight though, I wouldn't like to call a winner. Amazing that he was mandatory for Froch for ages and no one was really interested in seeing it. Froch might have had a lucky escape if their last fights are anything to go by.

He moved aside for the Kessler fight didn't he. Then got the shot at the LH belt and the rest is history.

Stevenson beats Froch on this form. No way will Froch move up to face him. Strange of Mcracken to query if Stevenson can make Super Middle. He is a SM who has been fighting at LH. Team Froch sound worried about facing him.

Can't blame Bellew for moving up. He is huge, see him running by mine and get shocked how big he is each time.

Also gives him a possible second crack at Clevely. Which would be a good fight again.

Kovalev has abnormal punching power. HBO will be wanting Stevenson to face the winner of Bute vs Pascal before feeding him to Kovalev.

Kovalev vs GGG one day would be a brilliant fight. Might not last long though.