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Old 09-12-2012, 22:11
ritch
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Pac got over confident because he was starting to drill Marquez in the 6th in a similar way to his previous victims, the problem for Pac was Marquez stayed focused and was waiting to unload his best counter punch ever. Its as simple as that I think, Pac was on his way to victory but his carelessness was his undoing. JMM did something amazing and this fight was a classic,

It will be very interesting to see what happens from here. Pac didnt look his best but he looked better than he has in a few years so he is clearly not finished unless that KO did more damage than we realise. If anything Marquez looked the spent force, I wonder if he will give a return fight, it seemed like a last hurrah to me, what a great way to go out.
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Old 09-12-2012, 22:48
Mr Applebee
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I am still in shock. Marquez is my favorite fighter of all time and pacquaio is definatly in my top ten. They are true warriors of the sport. That first knock down in round three was so mad, to see pac look so vulnerable. Shows what a beast he is though, I saw a look of the old pacquaio after that knockdown. He had actually made some great adjustments for this fight with the head movement and feints. I really thought the momentum had shifted and pac was gonna get Marquez out of there up until that overhand right from hell.

Truly was a historic moment that we got to witness, also a disturbing one for me. Just seemed surreal. I still think if there's a fifth fight it'll be a toss up, pac seemed to accept his defeat well and being the warrior he is will come back strong. Might be his last hurrah. I definatly have no interest in seeing the mayweather fight now, that should have happened 3 years ago. Gotta give credit to pacquaio, he could have avoided that fight last night but even knowing how many problems Marquez could cause him he still took it.
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Old 09-12-2012, 22:53
Mr Applebee
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No disrespect intended, but I don't put any stock in amateur body language analysis or intangible nonsense like hunger, desire, or anything else. How he fought is the only thing that matters and he actually did a lot of things better in this fight than he did in the last one against Marquez, he just walked on to a big shot.

We'll hear a lot about how he should retire simply because he lost, but he wasn't far away from losing any of the other three fights either. Marquez is simply a bad match up for him.
I agree, people seem to forget he was fighting a fellow ATG. Definatly a styles thing between the two of them. Marquez did look a tad slower, I think alot of emphasis was put into power for thisnfight at the expense of speed. He seemed to be throwing heavier one punch counters as opposed to his 2 or 3 shot combos. He also attacked pacs body with ALOT more sucess than the commentators gave him credit for.
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Old 09-12-2012, 23:06
Mr Applebee
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Apart from it being his worst ever fight and looking like he no longer had the hunger for it? I've seen every Pacquiao fight since he got with Roach, the way he was acting last night I had never seen before.

He looked both uncomfortable, unhappy and impatient.

Maybe he needed to get KOd to bring out the old Pacquiao, the one of the bast few fights has been too sanitised and was given it easy by Arum.

Marquez and his wonder 'protein' shakes had other ideas.
I thought pac actually looked very good, he had made some good adjustments that were definatly troubling Marquez. He was having alot more success with the straight left by baiting Marquez with some clever head feints. He has slipped though physically so I see where you are coming from but he is still better than 99.9% of the fighters in his division which speaks volumes about how great he really is.

I didn't realise there was a boxing forum on here, glad there is because I haven't been this affected by a fight since tarver stiffed Jones. Lol. I needed to vent somewhere.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:10
Dixon
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I haven't been this affected by a fight since tarver stiffed Jones. Lol.

If you saw their first fight then that KO would not have been a surprise.
Jones looked like a shell of a fighter in the first fight and it was an outrage that he got the verdict when he lost it by at least 6 rounds.
Jones was so shot that he was nearly knocked out by a jab in the closing rounds.
Going up to heavy then coming back down again so quickly quite clearlt finished him as a figher, and he should have quit after that first Tarver fight.
The same with the Pacman. Time to quit now!
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:11
Boxfresh
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I agree, people seem to forget he was fighting a fellow ATG. Definatly a styles thing between the two of them. Marquez did look a tad slower, I think alot of emphasis was put into power for thisnfight at the expense of speed. He seemed to be throwing heavier one punch counters as opposed to his 2 or 3 shot combos. He also attacked pacs body with ALOT more sucess than the commentators gave him credit for.
Marquez is a very good fighter, but he'll only go down as an ATG (in the eyes of some) because he knocked out Manny yesterday. The way Marquez got completely dominated and shut-out by Mayweather (after a long lay-off by Floyd) sort of made Marquez's claims to "greatness" look hollow. Mayweather treated him like a tune-up fight and toyed with him for 12 rounds. Marquez did not win a single round. ATG's do not get treated like that in 12 round fights.

He gives Pacciquo a tough time, but Pac has always been severely overrated compared to Mayweather. There's not really a fighter in this generation in Mayweather's class.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:03
Mr Applebee
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Marquez is a very good fighter, but he'll only go down as an ATG (in the eyes of some) because he knocked out Manny yesterday. The way Marquez got completely dominated and shut-out by Mayweather (after a long lay-off by Floyd) sort of made Marquez's claims to "greatness" look hollow. Mayweather treated him like a tune-up fight and toyed with him for 12 rounds. Marquez did not win a single round. ATG's do not get treated like that in 12 round fights.

He gives Pacciquo a tough time, but Pac has always been severely overrated compared to Mayweather. There's not really a fighter in this generation in Mayweather's class.
I see mayweathers victory in that as hollow more than anything. That fight was a farce, the weight disparity in the ring on the night was laughable and jmm was not carrying the weight very well at all. Floyd would still beat Marquez in a rematch don't get me wrong, but again its a styles thing. A rematch would be more competitive though imo.

Marquez is definatly going down as an atg in my book, when it comes down to ring smarts and skills only mayweather tops him in this day and age. I actually prefer marquez' more aggressive counterpunching style to mayweathers counterpunching style. I still think pacs workrate and the angles he would create would have seriously troubled mayweather.

we'll never know I suppose but people seem to have forgotten just how relentless pacquaio was in his prime. It's a Damn shame that Floyd retired when the 147 division was hot, we could have seen some amazing fights. Instead he came out of retirement and and fought someone who had fought as a super featherweight 12 months previous and he couldn't even stick to the agreed catchweight. He actually weighed in at 147 in that fight. Marquez came in at 142.

Do you think there's any chance that the may-pac fight still happens?
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:11
Mr Applebee
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If you saw their first fight then that KO would not have been a surprise.
Jones looked like a shell of a fighter in the first fight and it was an outrage that he got the verdict when he lost it by at least 6 rounds.
Jones was so shot that he was nearly knocked out by a jab in the closing rounds.
Going up to heavy then coming back down again so quickly quite clearlt finished him as a figher, and he should have quit after that first Tarver fight.
The same with the Pacman. Time to quit now!
I know what u mean but just seeing Jones like that was weird.

I think pacs still beats anyone not named mayweather, would love to see him fight rios, he would have a field day in that one. Or rematch bradley...he'd win but wouldn't be the most exciting of fights.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:43
Boxfresh
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I see mayweathers victory in that as hollow more than anything. That fight was a farce, the weight disparity in the ring on the night was laughable and jmm was not carrying the weight very well at all. Floyd would still beat Marquez in a rematch don't get me wrong, but again its a styles thing. A rematch would be more competitive though imo.

Marquez is definatly going down as an atg in my book, when it comes down to ring smarts and skills only mayweather tops him in this day and age. I actually prefer marquez' more aggressive counterpunching style to mayweathers counterpunching style. I still think pacs workrate and the angles he would create would have seriously troubled mayweather.

we'll never know I suppose but people seem to have forgotten just how relentless pacquaio was in his prime. It's a Damn shame that Floyd retired when the 147 division was hot, we could have seen some amazing fights. Instead he came out of retirement and and fought someone who had fought as a super featherweight 12 months previous and he couldn't even stick to the agreed catchweight. He actually weighed in at 147 in that fight. Marquez came in at 142.

Do you think there's any chance that the may-pac fight still happens?
Mayweather came in at 146 and marquez came in at 142. The catchweight was 144. Those two pounds did not make the difference (that excuse holds even less water considering for the latest fight against Pac, Marquez came in at 143 and Pac came in at 147). Mayweather didn't bully Marquez around the ring with a size/weight advantadge. It was a pure display of technical superiority by Mayweather. Marquez is a counter-puncher. The problem is, so is Mayweather. A far, far superior counter-puncher. Everything Marquez does, Mayweather does a lot better.

That's why nobody with sense seriously wants to see Mayweather-Marquez 2 (though sheer greed/money might actually make this pointless match-up happen again). No matter if they come in at the exact same weight, everybody knows the resullt wil be another embarrassing blowout for Marquez. Though Mayweather might give him a round this time.

And Pac has always been the catchweight-king. That's how he built his legacy. By weight-draining fighters.

May-Pac may still happen (if there's money to be made, never write off the chance of a fight hapening). But the lustre is gone. Paccquio is seen as being on the slide (he'd have to have a major comeback, and convincingly beat some P4P top 10 guys to restore belief that he can still hack it at the highest level), while May is still considered the best in the world. Mayweather has nothing to gain from this fight anymore (aside from multi-million pay-per view paydays, which he makes against any opponent). He beats Pac, people will say "Pac was shot, no longer at his best". Unless Pac starts dominating some great fighters again (and that could take another 2-3 fights), I don't see Mayweather bothring. He doesn't need this version of Pac for his legacy.
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Old 10-12-2012, 21:02
Mr Applebee
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Mayweather came in at 146 and marquez came in at 142. The catchweight was 144. Those two pounds did not make the difference (that excuse holds even less water considering for the latest fight against Pac, Marquez came in at 143 and Pac came in at 147). Mayweather didn't bully Marquez around the ring with a size/weight advantadge. It was a pure display of technical superiority by Mayweather. Marquez is a counter-puncher. The problem is, so is Mayweather. A far, far superior counter-puncher. Everything Marquez does, Mayweather does a lot better.

That's why nobody with sense seriously wants to see Mayweather-Marquez 2 (though sheer greed/money might actually make this pointless match-up happen again). No matter if they come in at the exact same weight, everybody knows the resullt wil be another embarrassing blowout for Marquez. Though Mayweather might give him a round this time.

And Pac has always been the catchweight-king. That's how he built his legacy. By weight-draining fighters.

May-Pac may still happen (if there's money to be made, never write off the chance of a fight hapening). But the lustre is gone. Paccquio is seen as being on the slide (he'd have to have a major comeback, and convincingly beat some P4P top 10 guys to restore belief that he can still hack it at the highest level), while May is still considered the best in the world. Mayweather has nothing to gain from this fight anymore (aside from multi-million pay-per view paydays, which he makes against any opponent). He beats Pac, people will say "Pac was shot, no longer at his best". Unless Pac starts dominating some great fighters again (and that could take another 2-3 fights), I don't see Mayweather bothring. He doesn't need this version of Pac for his legacy.
I dunno, mayweather did what mayweather does but I don't think marquez was carrying the weight well at all and was not able to do what he usually does as well as he usually does it. Mayweather did bully marquez in the sense that marquez could not win mayweathers respect, as he was essentially a fat lightweight. mayweathers overall length and style was mostly responsible for the outcome though. Pacquiaos resume is better than floyds and the only fighter I really feel he drained to the point of it having a major impact on the outcome is dela hoya. Hatton always struggled at 147 which he fought Floyd at, look at the collazo fight. Pac absolutely demolished him in the weight class where he was the main man. Clottey gave prime margarito and cotto all they could handle, pac shut him out. All in all, both have been pretty clever in their matchmaking. I still feel that Floyd should have fought the likes of margs and cotto. Not the version of cotto that he faced.

Pac did the same though by facing a well and truly shot mosley and margarito.

I'll always be biased towards pacquaio , I just prefer his warrior mentality. I defo see your points though and have endless arguments with my dad who pretty much shares your views. Lol
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:22
hume
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The disputes over the third fight seem a tad childish. It's as if people just wanted to see the underdog win and therefore called a close fight, a win for Marquez.

This fight was Herol Graham v Julian Jackson all over again. Herol has Jackson cut over one eye and the doctor's already had a look at it and reluctantly allowed the fight to continue.
Logic says stay back and exploit the damage already done and let nature take it's course. Overconfidence on the other hand says slug it out with one of the hardest hitting punchers in the history of the division.

Pacquiao's only fault was to jump on a perceived weakened opponent. I think Manny's feint and head movement took a little out of him earlier in the fight. The problem with too much head movement is that it eventually confuses the fighter using it. I think this in part contributed to the KD in round 3.

It seemed both fighters wanted to prove a point in this fight. JMM has at last made his point.
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Old 13-12-2012, 13:45
Dixon
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Marquez showed 1 punch KO power I have never seen from him before. Pretty spectacular, a 39 year old boxer KOing a fighter with one of the best chins around....

BALCO has competition.
Before the fight Roach was questioning the bulk of Marquez.

No fighter suddenly develops such massive, one punch power at the age of 39. Marquez was using the same guy who doped Marion Jones and others.

If i was in the Pac camp i'd want some serious enquiries looking into Marquez.
If that was a 'clean performance' then i'm a banana.
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Old 22-12-2012, 00:32
hume
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Before the fight Roach was questioning the bulk of Marquez.

No fighter suddenly develops such massive, one punch power at the age of 39. Marquez was using the same guy who doped Marion Jones and others.

If i was in the Pac camp i'd want some serious enquiries looking into Marquez.
If that was a 'clean performance' then i'm a banana.
true.
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Old 22-12-2012, 11:06
hume
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I wonder what it is about boxing that has Freddie Flintoff and 50 cents involved.

I can understand Freddie wanting a little expose after retirement, but with 50 it seems as though there's some real passion for the sport.

The following is a candid interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=836BUiC5JEA

another interview with De La Hoya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNHF4aOh65A
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Old 10-01-2013, 16:46
JasonWatkins
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Audley Harrison still won't take the hint ..

Former Prizefighter champs Audley Harrison and Martin Rogan are two of the first names in a star-studded line-up for the Betfair Prizefighter International Heavyweights III live on Sky Sports from the York Hall in Bethnal Green on February 23
.

http://www.prizefighter.co.uk/news/h..._walker_in.htm
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Old 11-01-2013, 13:07
TheSloth
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I'm not an avid boxing fan and Harrison personifies exactly why I won't be any time soon.

I used to think he was simply deluded but, analysing his, er, career and listening to the man it is 100% clear to me he's a very clever man who simply cheating a once great sport.

His recipe seems to be put as little in to get as much out and he does that by convincing promoters, the media and fans alike that he is a viable attraction.

He's a self confessed businessman and has a degree so is no fool. Until the punters stop paying to watch him, he'll continue to milk boxing for all he can. The guy behind Fight Night even admitted he'll increase viewing figures despite his evident deficiencies as a professional boxer.

He's nothing more than a cunning, self-promoting con artist.

Part of the reason boxing's dying on it's backside stateside - boxers spend most of their careers avoiding fair contests so they can keep the purses coming in and then have a handful of decent contests at the end of their careers to fund their retirement(s).

I didn't get that impression in the 70s and 80s, I really didn't - seemed a lot more transparent and fighters fought their equals and winner took all. Now, that's a sport, not a money making enterprise.

Was it the different bodies? WBF? WBA? WTF more like it. I don't know what's going on any more.

That's boxing sorted. Don't get me started on horse racing...
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:43
Syntax Error
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It doesn't surprise me one bit.

He'll either win Prizefighter to do well enough to continue deluding himself that he has a future in boxing, then the next step will be another big money fight; mark my words.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:45
Syntax Error
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I'm not an avid boxing fan and Harrison personifies exactly why I won't be any time soon.

I used to think he was simply deluded but, analysing his, er, career and listening to the man it is 100% clear to me he's a very clever man who simply cheating a once great sport.

His recipe seems to be put as little in to get as much out and he does that by convincing promoters, the media and fans alike that he is a viable attraction.

He's a self confessed businessman and has a degree so is no fool. Until the punters stop paying to watch him, he'll continue to milk boxing for all he can. The guy behind Fight Night even admitted he'll increase viewing figures despite his evident deficiencies as a professional boxer.

He's nothing more than a cunning, self-promoting con artist.

Part of the reason boxing's dying on it's backside stateside - boxers spend most of their careers avoiding fair contests so they can keep the purses coming in and then have a handful of decent contests at the end of their careers to fund their retirement(s).

I didn't get that impression in the 70s and 80s, I really didn't - seemed a lot more transparent and fighters fought their equals and winner took all. Now, that's a sport, not a money making enterprise.

Was it the different bodies? WBF? WBA? WTF more like it. I don't know what's going on any more.

That's boxing sorted. Don't get me started on horse racing...
100% correct.

Harrison is a complete con artist IMO.
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Old 19-01-2013, 11:25
Mr Applebee
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Salido vs garcia tonight......who ya got???

Real 50/50 for me on this one but I have a feeling that salidos pressure is gonna wear mikey down in the later rounds. I can't see rosado lasting past 5 rounds vs golovkin.
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Old 19-01-2013, 11:30
Jimbo83
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Salido vs garcia tonight......who ya got???

Real 50/50 for me on this one but I have a feeling that salidos pressure is gonna wear mikey down in the later rounds. I can't see rosado lasting past 5 rounds vs golovkin.
Yeah, tough one to call.

That's the thing...how will Garcia handle Salido's constant pressure. I have a feeling Garcia can land something well timed to stun Salido.

Golovkin TKO 5 I think. Mismatch and a half.
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Old 19-01-2013, 11:31
Jimbo83
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Frankie Gavin looked impressive last night, but his opponent (Welborn) is not the sternest of opposition.

Are any of you guys familiar with Bantamweight prospect, Kal Yafai?
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Old 19-01-2013, 11:52
Mr Applebee
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Yeah, tough one to call.

That's the thing...how will Garcia handle Salido's constant pressure. I have a feeling Garcia can land something well timed to stun Salido.

Golovkin TKO 5 I think. Mismatch and a half.
I know what u mean, I'm not really confident in my prediction. Both can punch and garcia counters well but it all depends on how he handles being taken out of his comfort zone, he likes to fight at his own pace usually and salido will not let that happen.

Gavin looked great, felt sorry for welborn, he couldn't land anything. I think welborn was perfect for Gavin to showcase his skills. Especially after that witter fight, my god that was painful to watch.
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Old 19-01-2013, 23:36
dazc
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what a great prizefighter great event
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Old 20-01-2013, 00:32
Flat Matt
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what a great prizefighter great event
I agree. Absolutely fantastic entertainment from start to finish.

A timely reminder of just how exciting boxing can be with some decent matchmaking.
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:34
Mr Applebee
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I know garcia was winning handily last night but does anyone else think him and his team saw an easy route out last night?
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