Like I said, I actually want Fury to win. Vlad has had his time and even though he is better boxer than people give him credit for, he is not the warrior his brother was. I would just rather Fury entertains in the ring because he really hasn't got the charisma to pull off his scripted lines and stunts outside it. David Haye (pre-toegate) could do it, but Fury is just cringe.

Every single decade of heavyweight boxing is seen as the worst at the time.

I remember everyone moaning in the 90's, it will have been the same in the 70's and right back until before John. L. Sullivan or even Tom Cribb.

Nostalgia in boxing plays a part more than in any other sport which is why you still get people seriously suggesting cruiserweights like Marciano or Dempsey would beat the crap out of today's behemoths.

Wlad is not a thug, a womaniser or an 'exciting' personality but he gets the job done.

He will only receive the credit he deserves when the next era begins - and is seen as the worst that there has ever been.

That will be UFC that has killed the heavyweight scene, it's what younger fans are now interested in, the older ones still cling to boxing. Fury isn't the one who is going to change that.

Nobody in posession of their own eyes could moan about the 70's. I can think of four megafights that actually lived up to their billing straight off the top of my head.

It wasn't too shabby living through the 80's either especially in the early years of Holmes career, when he still looked vulnerable. And he was quality.

90's had Tyson. Love him or hate him, you had to watch him. If anything, the 80's and the 90's only sufferred from a glut of absolutely outstanding boxers in the lower weights - especially welter - middle.

If the Klitchko brothers were yanks or brits or black they would be absolutely superstars regardless of their blandness or behind the scenes gamesmanship. I rate both as boxers, you can only beat what's in front of you - literally - I just rate Vitali a lot more. But this IS a poor era. Vlad is no Tyson, Ali or Holmes and he's probably not a Foreman, Lewis, Michael Spinks or Holyfield either.

The UFC was supposed to be the death of all boxing, but it can only dream of the figures that the Floyd/Paquiao fight generated. Fans will come back if the division gets the shot in the arm it needs.

And yes, Fury isn't going to change that.

I agree with this.

The US boxing press is notoriously jingoistic.

I would not rank Spinks in the top twenty - he got lucky against an old Holmes but then again he is a Light heavy and one of the best of all time there (I would pick Foster, possibly Moore and of course Charles to beat him though).

I was talking about perception - I have read a few articles from the 70's whining about how crap the division was, and also a lot from the '90s especially after Douglas kicked Tyson's arse.

It's hardly a golden era for the big blokes but not quite as bad a people make out in my opinion.

I don't remember anyone moaning during the 90s. It was a fantastic era for heavyweight boxing and is quite rightly remembered as such.

There's no denying that this era is dreadful. Wlad is a dull, average champion with no chin reigning over the worst heavyweight division in history. When was the last time America didn't have a single decent black heavyweight or any prospects on the horizon? Wilder is a joke and he's their only remotely credible heavyweight. It's been that way for a long time now.

There's a very serious problem with the heavyweight division.

Wlad will be remembered for exactly what he is: an instantly forgettable nobody who fought nobodies and bored everyone to death in the process.

I don't give a toss if the yanks cannot produce a top heavyweight - that is their problem and they whine about the division because they do not rule it anymore.

As for Wlad I think you are selling him incredibly short - how long did Tyson reign for?

Three years and his biggest win was over an old blown up light heavyweight.

A 'forgettable nobody' does not hold a world title for a decade at the top of the premier division of the sport.

Perhaps he makes his opposition look like shit - have you ever considered that?

Even his critics do not doubt he is a great heavyweight even if they think that the current era is bad.

Foster - only man to cut Ali i believe, Moore has an incredible record - do you mean Ezzard charles? Never knew he was a light-heavy. But we ALL forget don't we, what weight Evander Holyfield started out as

To the guy who said Vlad has no chin - one of the strangest developments in all the time I've watched boxing is that he didn't have a chin in his early career but he does now. I don't think I've ever seen another chinny bomber do that....

Yes.

He began as a middleweight (defeating the much avoided great Charley Burley twice) but after the war intervened became the best light heavy ever to lay on a glove but was never quite the same after killing Sam Baroudi in the ring.

Victories over Maxim, Bivins, Marshall and Moore several times each say it all in my opinion.

As for Wlad he is not as reckless as he was when young - perhaps that explains it?

But one thing I am absolutely certain off is that he is not just 'an instantly forgettable nobody' like that poster described Dr. Steelhammer.

Reports Klitschkos injured his calf in training, so the fights off.

Just broke on the BEEB.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/34359581

Not surprised, if it's a Wlad fight their is always a chance of postponement. Fury, Chisora, Pulev, Mormeck, Povetkin, Haye...

Damn, I was looking forward to Fury being shown what boxing is.

What happens to the brook fight, will that now be shown on sky. Surely they cant have that as a PPV?

I feel a bit sorry for Fury to be honest. He was really pumped for this and he has sufferred the anti-climax of postponed fights before.

Still, it does give him a chance to show up as Wonder Woman at the next press conference.....

[quote=Makosi's pants;79793323]I feel a bit sorry for Fury to be honest. He was really pumped for this and he has sufferred the anti-climax of postponed fights before.

Still, it does give him a chance to show up as Wonder Woman at the next press conference.....]/QUOTE]



I actually like Fury - he is a prat but a likable one who is at least entertaining with his antics.

Ok folks fantasy match up time.

Monzon v Hagler over 15 rounds?

I have it pick 'em with a slight edge to Monzon - close points win?

Feel free to suggest your own.

Anyone who thinks this is a decent era is in denial or just doesn't know anything about boxing.

Wlad has beaten absolutely no one. No one at all and he's been flattened by several journeymen. He can't take a punch, he's a plodding, boring and ordinary fighter who is just fortunate to be the best of a bad bunch during what is by far the worst era in heavyweight boxing history.

No one who gets knocked out by the likes of Corrie Sanders is going to last very long with someone like Tyson, Lewis, Bowe or Holyfield. In fact, I doubt he'd have got past the likes of Bruno or any of the other contenders of other eras.

I can't believe you have the front to question the record of someone like Tyson who is a genuine ATG at the same time as championing someone like Wlad. Tyson's best years were brief because he is two sandwiches short of a picnic and couldn't dedicate himself, but anyone who denies his greatness or supreme talent at his best is just an irrational hater who really can't see past that.

Who has Wlad beaten? David Haye is probably his biggest win. Big deal. And you question Tyson's opponents?

Like it or not, American heavyweights have dominated the division since it began and the fact that Wlad is even champion is entirely due to the fact that America hasn't had a single decent big man for well over a decade. In any other era, Wlad makes European champion at best.

America is not special and they do not have a divine right to rule the heavyweights - so they cannot produce a great big man any more - that's their problem.

You are so biased against Wlad it is laughable.

Bruno?

He has been unbeaten for a decade

I do not have any 'front' I am merely expressing my opinion and I am not 'irrational' either.

This era is nowhere near as bad as people believe. But it is certainly average with the exception of the brothers.

I never said it was the '70's or '90's.

Tyson was an all time great heavyweight for a short period of time and he belongs in the top ten head to head no doubt about that. I do not let the fact that he is a rapist 'gangsta' scumbag blind me to his talents as fighter.

But Holyfield would always have his number as he had a rock solid chin, so would '73-4 Foreman, '78-83 Holmes and of course '64-67 Ali.

The late '50's version of Liston would be a nightmare for him as well.

By the way Vitali would have beaten Tyson - there is no way he is knocking him out and anyone who stood up to him kicked his arse - that 'all time great' Buster Douglas for example.

Put Wlad against any all time great heavyweight and he'd lose every time, by disqualification for excessive clinching (if he hadn't been knocked out already).

I see I am alone in my opinions on Wlad.

Never mind that's what a forum is about - discussion.

Some all time matchups.

I will give my opinions on these when I have a bit more time.

Hagler v Hopkins.

GGG v Zale.

Hearns v Mayweather (welter).

Leonard v Robinson (welter).

Foster v Spinks.

Holmes v Frazier.

Lewis v Louis.

Vlad has all the tools to beat Tyson however do I think a prime Tyson wouldn't be able to crack him. Not a chance. A prime Tyson would get to him and glad wouldn't take those shots.

That is a fair opinion.

Tyson could get to Wlad early but if he didn't it would be a very long night for him.

It reminds me of FOTC Frazier v Tyson (with totally different styles of course) most people pick Tyson to blast Joe out like Foreman did but I am not so sure - if Joe got past round five and started smoking I could see him brutally outpointing Mike - the '71 version of Frazier was a machine.

I was hoping I might see some confirmation here on the rumour I heard today that amir Khan is definitely going to fight Manny pac next year? Anyone.....? Can only find talk of negoitiations on Google...


Not quite alone. He's the best around and has been for some time. Not his fault he's in a dire era. However, I don't think he belongs in the top twenty all-time. And any of those top twenty would have bombed him out. Meanwhile, I think his brother just get's in there. Probably as high as fifteen because he had all Vlad's skills plus a Mount Rushmore chin.

Good match ups you've got there. I go:

Hagler
GGG (I don't actually know who Zale is but I'd take GGG over almost anyone!)
Mayweather
Robinson
Spinks
Holmes
Louis

One thing that makes me shake my head; when people talk about great boxers, how come Roy Jones Junior doesn't readily make the lists? At his peak, he was probably the best I've seen. Guy had it all. Went on (is going on ) too long probably?

Tony Zale the 'Man of Steel'.

Hagler and Hopkins is pick 'em for me - cannot separate them.

GGG in a early to mid rounds KO over Zale.

Hearns blows away Mayweather in three or if he does a Usain Bolt comfortably on points.

Robinson over Leonard split decision - very, very close.

Foster late KO on Spinks.

Lewis just far to big for Joe - at some stage a KO.