I've yet to hit the 3 gig limit on my TMobile account and I would consider myself a heavy user.

The data required by Google Maps isn't actually that large and your average user, even on a small data limit, will find it makes little difference to their plan in most situations.

We added the variable of going abroad, so I made a comment about how I'd rely on something a little more than a freebie if I went abroad. To back that up, I also have Ovi Maps on my Nokia handset and yet I'd still choose to take my Android handset and use Navigon rather than take the Nokia one and use the free Ovi maps.

If we're talking about day to day use I would assume that doesn't include travelling abroad every day.


I like the ability to download maps before needing them too, but I find that the Google Maps meets my needs sufficiently to warrant not missing this and like I say, I use Navigon nowadays anyway.

It all comes down to preference.

However, the one main thing to come out of this is that it's just not true that Ovi is the only true free decent satnav app out there as was previously incorrectly stated in the thread.

Considering what you say, it seems odd that my Navigon is more accurate and up to date that Ovi from recent use


But Navigon appears more accurate and up to date and while maps are obviously rather important the extra features chucked in to Navigon stand it far ahead.

Interestingly, the only mapping service I've found thats truly up to date is that from Open Streetmaps.

But regardless of that, it'll depend on how often the companies refresh their maps, but so far I've not had any issues with accuracy from either Google Maps or Ovi. Neither has my partners estate listed though .....

From a technical point of veiw that happens with every os unless it has a dual core processor .

Symbian does actually does do full multiasking where as android and ios does limited multitasking.

Also one thing that most forget is that, Symbian has more apps outside of ovi than probably in it . You can install apps via the pc, memory card or via ovi on a Symbian device. You can also choose where the app will be installed.

Android runs as a java app running on linux, thus will always be slower, more memory and battery hungry than it could have been . Plus it was targeting the iphone and given that target isn't too high android itself isn't that great.

User interface, both ios and android have no "previous chains to hang onto". What do I mean by this, basically the programmers weren't tied to existing routines etc .

Symbian on the other hand had no such luck so it had to go from non touch to touch and also keep existing spec and routines. The N97/5800 was doomed to be at best ok and at worst a dog's dinner. Add in lack of memory it turned into dog's poo .

So... hold on.

Are you saying "multi-tasking" didn't exist until dual- and multi-core processors existed? And, are you saying all Symbian phones are dual-core?!

We read on here reasonably often about how iOS has "better" multitasking than Android, and every time I push for facts/reasons to back that up (other than Steve Jobs' opinion) I get ignored; now we read that Symbian multitasking is "better" than Android too, and again I push for facts/reasons and don't get any, other than Symbian is "full" and Android is "limited". Seriously, I'm curious rather than being deliberately argumentative - how do they differ? Why are they better?

It depends on your definition of "task".

Essentially a single-core processor can only process one thread at a time. What they do is "time-slicing" i.e. a given time frame is sliced into many portions. The processor allocates a portion each to all the threads and therefore has done some work on each thread within the entire time frame.

Numerical example, in one second a CPU might work on a hundred different threads, working on each one for 0.01s
So across the entire 1 second, all threads have had some work done. This gives the illusion of multi-tasking. Clearly with two or more cores, a CPU can work on multiple threads simultaneously (one per core in an indivisible unit of time).

This is how Windows PCs work and symbian works the same way. No phone is dual-core yet but some dual-core phones are imminent in 2011. I'm not a computer science engineer so someone can better explain why Android's multi-tasking is limited. But the way it seems to work is that apps can carry on working in the background until their resources are needed then they will just be killed.

Rather than proper resource management going on.

I think that is a gross over-simplification to be honest. Android does kill applications that are 'open' if it needs the resources BUT this only happens to ones that are dormant and not being used. Google use this to demonstrate why there is no need to install a specific 'task killer' application because the system is more than able to maintain itself without user 'interference'.

Android itself is perfectly capable of 'multi tasking' when it has a number of applications running together using exactly the method of 'time slicing' you describe. No essential or active process is going to be simply closed because Android needs the resources elsewhere.

pi r squared is exactly right when he says that the concept of Android being in some way flawed when it comes to the subject of multi tasking is entirely without any basis or evidence.

Android, at least as of 2.1 wasn't that good at handling the task killing. The only way I could get Angry Birds to run semi acceptably on the ZTE Blade was to kill off virtually every non-essential task.

Symbian is the only one of the big 3 at the moment that handles full multi tasking rather than variants of task switching. And at the same time it tends to offer better power management as well.

But again you don't give us an example of WHY Symbian, or Apple, or anyone else has better multi tasking!

I don't doubt what you say about Angry Birds BUT it seems to me that this proves that Android DOES multi-task because the only way you could get it to run was to close non-essential tasks and thus reduce the load on the processor (thereby giving Angry Birds a greater share of its 'time'). Angry Birds is a very resource hungry game and its implementation on Android has been very hit and miss (more due to the fragmentation of the platform more than anything else). Play it on a phone with a powerful processor and it works fine.

You might have a point about how efficient the task resourcing is but the concept of even an underpowered windows desktop machine slowing down when you have too many programs open at the same time is known to everyone. What you experienced was exactly the same. If Symbian is better at this then unless the phone has unlimited resources (clearly not) then it must also shut down running processes at will.

On symbian you can actually start installing an app and then HIt the home key and switch ...

All programs on symbian are multitaskable, where as on android and ios this is not the case.

Symbian will swap programs in and out of memory as required. You can actually run out of memory :P .. Done it on my nokia e75.

Also if one app becomes non responsive it usually doesn't cause problems for the other running apps. Again sign of a mature OS.

Most of the issues with symbian are tied to the touch ui which will finally break from its old constraints next year and also people thinking the same icon set and font set makes it *old*.

I've had one out of memory error on the N8, had a few apps open and was playing a 720p video over HDMI to the 42" screen at home. The video shot on the N8 really did scale up extremely well on the big screen. Looked better than what I used to get out of a 1080p Toshiba camcorder.

Interesting on the non-responsive apps; most of the time what you say is true, but sadly I've had two apps that did bring down the whole phone - Opera Mobile and Opera Mini. Both also used to bring down the 5230 as well.

It'll be interesting to see what the next update brings - the updated browser does look very good from the previews I've seen, claims of much improved overall performance (which is already fine)

Look, guys, I dion't want to turn into this petulant child who just goes "why?", "why?", "why?" all the time, but just one specific example would be nice! Is that so difficult?

I understand this, but the commonly-perceived definition of "multi-tasking" falls under this 'time-slicing' definition - I appreciate we didn't have "true" multi-tasking until multi-core, but what we accept as multi-tasking has existed for quite some time.


What is your definition of multi-tasking that fits Symbian's application of it, but not Android's?


I can do that on Android too. I don't sit and watch every application install!


Again, what is your definition of multitaskable that fits Symbian and not Android?


I'm not sure you're making quite the convincing argument for Symbian's multitasking that you think you are


Ditto Android. Non-responsive apps generate a "Wait / Force Close" dialogue and the phone continues along as if nothing had happened. I'm not sure what you're basing your Android generalisations on, but they don't appear to be very grounded in reality...

pi r squared: Android is basiclaly linux and then a giant custom java app . That is Android for you. It has a limited situation multitasking. I've not played with my brother's android phone nor the android vm i have to see where it breaks down.

as I said, iOS had multitasking added to it so its even more limited than android.

As for the running out of memory I've only seen it happen on the web browser and Google maps otherwise it doesn't happen, plus the e75 wasn't given enough memory .. The e7 will have 7 times the memory that the e75 had ...

How? How is it limited? If you're experienced enough to brand it limited, why can you not - after numerous requests - provide an example?

For instance, I can see why iOS's application is limited. There are a few multitasking APIs which apps can hook into, and the rest is basic pause-and-resume task switching. Whether that's good or bad is not here nor there; fact is, there's an argument there for branding it limited. I am still waiting for a similar example for Android.

Let me put it another way: please provide me with a real-world example or situation where Symbian would multitask but Android wouldn't.