[threecheeses]

If the parallel universes already exist then why were the exact same people on the train each time, one might have been sick or dead in one universe? Unless that is the exact point of change where they become different universes as he exists in one and not the other.

If they created a new Universe each time then they killed off millions in all but about 2 of them each time and how do the people just suddenly exist in those universes at that stage in their life?

I like the theory that the Universe ceased to exist each time after the 8 minutes until the final one where he joined an already existing alt universe.

Every explanation just leads to more questions.


Just to add: I didn't know the cast apart from Jake and thought Goodwin was played by his sister Maggie at first.

[Jack_Burton]

Originally Posted by brangdon

Yes, I think that's more likely than that the SC device is creating them; the latter would be more of a stretch. You seemed to disagree.

QM was specifically cited (Rutledge's quote) and the branch point is the start of the last 8 mins of Fentress' consciousness. SC presents a fairly mainstream interpretation (not universally agreed) of QM which throws up the kind of fanciful notions that make good sci-fi.

If the universes were already existing they would be markedly different (as 3cheeses alludes to above) since they would have emerged from earlier branch points, and it would be nigh impossible to identify what those points were. SC would have to somehow locate appropriate universes and open a window at the exact same time in those universes, at a later time each time in the primary reality - a massive computational stretch.

[Virgil Tracy]

Originally Posted by wiseguy100

i thought Jakes acted brilliantly in this film. and in most reviews they mention how great he is.

your opinion would be more valid if you could actually spell the name of the actor you are dissing lol.

well with grammar like that ^ I'd have to call "pot>kettle>black " lol

[brangdon]

Originally Posted by Jack_Burton

QM was specifically cited (Rutledge's quote)

Yes, we agree QM is involved.

and the branch point is the start of the last 8 mins of Fentress' consciousness.

In the many worlds interpretation, every moment is a branch point. Rutledge was claiming that something extra was happing when they used the SC.

If the universes were already existing they would be markedly different (as 3cheeses alludes to above) since they would have emerged from earlier branch points,

Universes branch off continuously, so there are a great many of them. Some would be very different, some would be almost the same, depending on how long ago their nearest common ancestor was. Some universes would be identical except with one quantum bit flipped - eg one radioactive atom that's decayed in one universe and not in the other, that being the cause of the branch.

and it would be nigh impossible to identify what those points were.

That would be why they needed the dead guy. His consciousness had existed on the train as it was, and provides a link to all those moments. They picked the earliest moment they could, but presumably could have gone back to any point in the eight minutes. Whichever point they went to, would have been congruent to Fentress's experiences because it is his conciousness which identifies and indexes the universe.

It's a different interpretation, but I think consistent with what happens in the movie, especially if we accept Rutledge either doesn't understand his machine or else is being deceptive about it.

SC would have to somehow locate appropriate universes and open a window at the exact same time in those universes, at a later time each time in the primary reality - a massive computational stretch.

It's not so much a matter of computation as what consciousness is and does.

What is a stretch is for the Source Code device to somehow undo all the branches that have happened since 8 minutes before Fentress died, and create a new universe in that reversed state. It needs to reverse time. That's not what happens with the usual many world interpretation.

[Jack_Burton]

Hi brangdon. The first 3/4 of your post doesn't contradict anything I said (it's just phrased in a more convoluted way ). SC located and used the same branch point to create a new alternate reality every time it was run. You cite the dead guy's consciousness as the locator for this - yep, that was my point. Re: your final paragraph, where we actually diverge, it was my interpretation there was no "reversing of time" - turned out every one of these alternate realities ran their course beyond the 8mins (my post #54). Looks like we'll have to agree to occupy opposite quantum states on this one.

A fun film, anyway

[mintchocchip]

I saw this today and loved it.

[kyri]

I usually hate time travelling(ish) films and Jake Gyllenhaal but...

I loved it.

Thought it was nicely paced and lot's of fun.

[NorfolkBoy1]

been meaning to say since Wednesday: OMMFG how f****ng awesome was THAT???

A film like that probably deserves a more eloquent and considered review, but hell, it's early, suffice it to say my girlfreind (fairly resistant to sci-fi) and I loved it.

[brangdon]

Originally Posted by Jack_Burton

Hi brangdon. The first 3/4 of your post doesn't contradict anything I said (it's just phrased in a more convoluted way ). SC located and used the same branch point to create a new alternate reality every time it was run.

I'm suggesting it found existing alternate universes rather than created new ones.

Re: your final paragraph, where we actually diverge, it was my interpretation there was no "reversing of time" -

If those universes were created, they were created in the state they were in 8 minutes before the bomb went off. That's very different to the normal universe branching in many-worlds QM, where each branching produces universes which are very similar to the stem.

If the alternates universes are being created rather than found, then at the point the SC machine is invoked, the state they are in doesn't exist and has to be recovered or created somehow by the SC machine. That's what I mean by reversing time. Not just creating a new universe, but creating one in a past state.

turned out every one of these alternate realities ran their course beyond the 8mins (my post #54).

Well, we don't see that, and if you believe the universes were created by SC, then it's logical that they ceased to exist when Colter's consciousness returned back to the base reality; that they needed his presence to sustain them, and only existed while he observed them. Where-as if they pre-existed, then they would have continued to exist without Colter.

It's a shame that Colter either dies in the alternate (and then comes back to the base), or else dies in the base (and then continues in the alternate). You have to wonder, had he just got off the train and walked away and never died in the alternate, whether Goodwin et al could have done anything about it. I suspect not - they couldn't do much when he lost contact from them in his cell. All they could do was switch off his life support, which is what happened at the end anyway.

If they did have a way to force him back, maybe Sean would have got his body back.

Looks like we'll have to agree to occupy opposite quantum states on this one.

A fun film, anyway

Yes; this isn't an angry debate, it's just fun thinking about the film and bouncing around possible interpretations of it.

[UltraViolet]

I really hope Jones turns down directing Wolverine 2... do more original stuff!

[welwynrose]

Looking at Box Office Mojo it's already broken even

[grimtales1]

I just got back from seeing Source Code.
Very good film , 4/5 Groundhog Day meets Total Recall/Inception
Very intriguing idea with themes about fate, and the theory of multiple universes.
I felt it was even too short in some ways with a lot to pack into 90 minutes.

Spoiler

How come everyone on the train was the same? I would like to have learned more about the bomber - he was almost incidental? He was just a geek and that was it

Plot Hole?

Spoiler

Why didnt Jake Gyllenhaal search out "himself" (ie another person called Sean, with his name? Didnt the female officer say something like that?

[Froggie72]

Saw it at the week-end. Thought it was good but not that good... And whatever happened to Sean???

Spoiler

if they are all saved at the end... how can Stevens take over from Sean?? - People mention "Sean's death" in other spoilers, but if Stevens can inhabit him ahead of the blast, how did Sean die??? and if he's already dead, how come he's on the train???

[grimtales1]

That's what I was wondering... why didnt Jake Gyllenhaal look for him in the Source Code?

[grimtales1]

Also IMO this was a plot hole -

Spoiler

the bomber got OFF the train, why do we see Coulter always questioning those ON the train? I thought there would be a HUUUGE mindf*ck twist like Coulter himself was the bomber, or Jeffery Wright was the bomber.. etc.
At the end was Coulter alive but he lived in a different reality?

Still a very good film though.

[grimtales1]

IMO,

Spoiler

I didnt mind the happy ending but it would have been better if it had stopped on the freeze frame.
What if Sean is not living a new life but the ending is actually him dying (but stretched out incredibly so it feels like a whole life to him), if we go with a Life on Mars type ending.

[welwynrose]

Originally Posted by grimtales1

Also IMO this was a plot hole -

Spoiler

the bomber got OFF the train, why do we see Coulter always questioning those ON the train? I thought there would be a HUUUGE mindf*ck twist like Coulter himself was the bomber, or Jeffery Wright was the bomber.. etc.
At the end was Coulter alive but he lived in a different reality?

Still a very good film though.

They didn't know

Spoiler

The bomber had got off the train - he could have been killed in the explosion but had an accomplice that was going to detonate the 2nd bomb

[Yuffie]

Just back from seeing this and I liked it ..... but the end was missing something for me, I don't know what, maybe I would have been happier with the freeze frame, I don't know !! 8 /10.

I'm not going to get into the quantom dishwasher tablets physics of it all but the investigation seemed to just stop in the end and the nerdiness part of it took off.

I mean thats not how Jack Bauer would have ended things ...

Spoiler

He found the bomber and just left it at that. Fair enough the last time, he got the second phone but then that was that, crisis averted.

I think I might have expected a little bit more on that part but overall, very good !!

[OneTreeHillFan]

Saw this today, enjoyed it

[MrSuper]

Saw this and i have to say i really liked it. I know there are some people arguing over plot holes when it comes to the 'science' of the source code but take that all away and as a film i really enjoyed. It was equally clever and smart as it was entertaining and brilliantly acted. Jake Gyllenhaal seems to be going down the same path Leonardo DiCaprio went down and in a couple of years time could be huge. I like how he mixes films like this with smaller fare like Brothers for example. I also thought Vera Farmiga was excellent too.

The ending left me with questions and made it messy, don't think it needed to end that way but i understand why they chose to do it instead of the usual typical happy Hollywood ending (eg. freezeframe!). Looking forward to Duncan's next film whatever it may be!

Spoiler

And i loved the fact Scott Bakula aka Sam Beckett - Quantum Leap!!! - played Jake's dad in the film. Shame we only got to hear his voice and not see him. Still, happy days!

[Steve AWOL]

Saw this movie up Odeon last night and thought it was an enjoyable sci-fi thriller but, like many other people have mentioned in this thread already, the movie should've ended when the 8 minutes were up as the schmaltz at the end slightly spoiled it for me. 7/10

[starsailor]

Originally Posted by Steve AWOL

Saw this movie up Odeon last night and thought it was an enjoyable sci-fi thriller but, like many other people have mentioned in this thread already, the movie should've ended when the 8 minutes were up as the schmaltz at the end slightly spoiled it for me. 7/10

I agree..would have been happy with the freeze frame at the end when his 8mins was up.

I can only assume the studio, or whoever wanted a little more upbeat ending. But it then leaves the messy subject of what happened to the guy he replaced He's effectively stolen his body and killed him.

[grimtales1]

I agree with that - I wondered why he didnt try and search for "another" Sean, what on earth happened to him?

[Alli-F]

Originally Posted by starsailor

I agree..would have been happy with the freeze frame at the end when his 8mins was up.

I can only assume the studio, or whoever wanted a little more upbeat ending. But it then leaves the messy subject of what happened to the guy he replaced He's effectively stolen his body and killed him.

In my head, Sean dies in every other reality anyway, so the only way that Sean's "body" can live on is with Colter in it to save him if that makes any sense. I'm not a sci fi geek though, so I don't know if I'm missing some obvious point.

[boddism]

Originally Posted by IslandNiles

I suspect the freeze frame was the original ending, and someone meddled!

I too have noticed that this tendancy to over egg the endings of films (AI being a classic example) is endemic in Hollywood these days, & is a pain in the ass! So many film have neat, natural endings that just dont end up being the final scene... I suspect its the desire to leave the audience wanting more that adds these complex & unanswered endings we see so often. To me its a bit showy offy: Look how clever we are!

I loved this film, but for me I saw this ending differently. In fact,

Spoiler

I think a lot rested on the reaction of Goodwin at the end. is it me or does she seem not to remember the events of the previous day? And if she ruined the previous mission, why is she back at work the next day? Her shocked reaction to the email, & their conversation in the office " a day will come when the source code can be used", plus Coulters (non dead) body tells me that her memory has been wiped, and that SHE too (& possibly her colleagues??) are also in the source code, & that it goes much deeper than anyone imagines. (Foreshadoming in the "are you married?" conversation between her & Coulter earlier in the film). Perhaps only she & Coulter are aware of this??