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Digital SLR's - A few questions
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subversive
23-11-2010
Hi,

I want to get a Digital SLR Camera, but have no clue whatsoever about this category of cameras.

I am used to the "point and shoot" cameras, the normal £200 ones, like Canon IXUS range.

The one I like the look of is the Canon EOS 550D.

How does it compare to the older 500D.

My budget is around £500 to £600 (I think the 550D is abit more than that).

What I would like to know is:

1. Would I have to upgrade the lens?
2. Should I get it with or without a lens? Which lens is good if buying just the body
3. Do I need a flash
4. Extra battery - how long does the existing battery which comes with the camera last
5. Memory Card, what would be a good size? 16GB, 32GB?

6. any alternative for this camera?
7. Any sound advice would be appreciated.

oh and for those experienced users, what cameras have you got?


Thanks

ps. what about this camera? its not a DSLR

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lu...481142&sr=1-21
nathanbrazil
23-11-2010
The problems with going down the pro route are;

1) It's a money pit. You will be wanting other lenses, etc.

2) By the time you've changed a lens the moment has gone.

3) It's a steep learning curve.

FWIW, I looked into this, and came to the conclusion that I don't want to be a professional photographer. But I do want something that helps me to take better pictures, in and of itself. In other words, a superior all-in-one point and click camera, that also lets me fiddle with settings if and when I have the time and interest.

What I am going to buy, is this -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lu...088203&sr=8-13
clonmult
23-11-2010
Originally Posted by nathanbrazil:
“The problems with going down the pro route are;

1) It's a money pit. You will be wanting other lenses, etc.

2) By the time you've changed a lens the moment has gone.

3) It's a steep learning curve.”

1) Yes, it does have the potential to be a money pit
2) Thats why you buy the right lenses (the kit lenses are normally good), I've got a 28-300 on my DSLR that covers virtually every possible situtation
3) Not really - you can use it as a point and shoot in auto mode, and then start to experiement. Photography isn't really that difficult.

But in response to the OPs questions :
1) No, you don't have to - a kit lens, in the 17-55 range is a good starting point
2) Get it with a lens - you're learning, in time you'll work out what lenses you may need (or want)
3) Flash - not initially. The built in flash is generally okay, an external flash will tend to be needed for different occasions (ie. low light photography in a darker room)
4) Unless you use live view a lot, a DSLR will last considerably longer on a charge - I could easily get close on a thousand shots out of mine
5) I've got a 16gb in mine, but even in RAW that allows me around 800 pictures. In JPEG it'll store something like 3500 images - more than enough.

Best advice - call into a Jessops, have a play. See which ones you like the feel of, which is fairly crucial.
TheBigM
23-11-2010
Originally Posted by subversive:
“Hi,

I want to get a Digital SLR Camera, but have no clue whatsoever about this category of cameras.

I am used to the "point and shoot" cameras, the normal £200 ones, like Canon IXUS range.

The one I like the look of is the Canon EOS 550D.

How does it compare to the older 500D.

My budget is around £500 to £600 (I think the 550D is abit more than that).

What I would like to know is:

1. Would I have to upgrade the lens?
2. Should I get it with or without a lens? Which lens is good if buying just the body
3. Do I need a flash
4. Extra battery - how long does the existing battery which comes with the camera last
5. Memory Card, what would be a good size? 16GB, 32GB?

6. any alternative for this camera?
7. Any sound advice would be appreciated.

oh and for those experienced users, what cameras have you got?


Thanks

ps. what about this camera? its not a DSLR

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lu...481142&sr=1-21”

I bought the 550D and am very happy with it. However, without high quality glass the extra 3MP won't really resolve more detail than a 500D and 15MP.

The 18-55mm kit lens adds barely any cost to the camera so "you may as well get it" however it is considered not good quality compared to other SLR lenses. 550D has two kit options - 18-55mm which I just mentioned and the 17-85mm which is a decent lens and obviously covers a larger zoom range. I got this second lens instead. I also bought a 50mm f/1.8 prime lens which is very good relative to what you pay for it.

Try to get image stabilising lenses where you can. The main advantages of the 550D include: expansion of the movie options, new iFCL metering system, goes upto ISO6400 as standard now, more autofocus points.

The lenses that you need depend on what kind of photographs you want to take. Lenses are expensive. You will quickly find your body cost becomes nothing in comparison to cost of lenses and other accessories. Once you've bought in to the Canon ecosystem, you won't want to change given the expense (i.e. your future camera bodies will also be Canons).

An SLR gives you more control over your photos, if you plan to just leave it on auto then I question the wisdom of buying such a camera. I would say only buy such a camera if you are willing to learn what it can do and learn something about photographical basics.

Nathanbrazil talked about being a professional photographer. Owning an SLR doesn't make you a professional photographer. just have a better camera than the other tourists. The 550D is considered in their consumer range anyway. Professional cameras cost thousands of pounds like the Canon 1DS or much much higher once you start looking at Hasselblads and the like.
nathanbrazil
23-11-2010
Originally Posted by TheBigM:
“Nathanbrazil talked about being a professional photographer. Owning an SLR doesn't make you a professional photographer. just have a better camera than the other tourists.”

Sure, the sensor on a DSLR is always going to be superior to that on a point-and-click camera. However, I believe that the latest super-zoom cameras, especially the Panasonic Lumix FZ100, may be the way for the OP to go. The FZ100 has 14.1MP, 3.0 inch TFT LCD Display, LEICA DC Lens with 24x Optical Zoom and Full HD Movie mode. This is quite a lot on offer, and all of it usable in auto mode.
Darthchaffinch
23-11-2010
read here: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Ca...-12948#verdict

It's a damn good camera. If you want to get into photgraphy (in a non-pro way) then you could choode worse.

Use camerapricebuster.co.uk to get best prices
Biffo the Bear
23-11-2010
I'd say you benefit mostly from using a dSLR if you want to play around with aperture and shutter settings. If you're planning on whapping it on full auto all the time, then perhaps consider a bridge camera or four thirds system, like the above Lumices
TheBigM
23-11-2010
Originally Posted by nathanbrazil:
“Sure, the sensor on a DSLR is always going to be superior to that on a point-and-click camera. However, I believe that the latest super-zoom cameras, especially the Panasonic Lumix FZ100, may be the way for the OP to go. The FZ100 has 14.1MP, 3.0 inch TFT LCD Display, LEICA DC Lens with 24x Optical Zoom and Full HD Movie mode. This is quite a lot on offer, and all of it usable in auto mode.”

I agree that if you are going to be a full auto snapper then don't waste time buying an SLR and said as much.

I was an early buyer of a Panasonic super-zoom camera. I note that it does allow for things like shutter priority, aperture priority etc but couldn't really get small DOF effects, probably due to the small sensor size.

Am loving my 550D, don't have many opportunities to use it right now due to work but Africa in December should see me filling up that memory card!
subversive
23-11-2010
hmmmm. interesting replies, which have spawned more questions in my mind..

Like some members have said, if its going to be on Auto, then that camera's potential is wasted, which I agree, it will be a waste.

I don't know anything about lenses, to camera bodies, etc, what is a wide angle lense, etc.

I just want a extremely good camera, with which I can take clear, crisp, colourful, detail pictures.

Of course that depends on what I am shooting.

no I am not planning on becoming a pro photographer, I am a amateur and will stay that way until I develop a creative flare, which isn't happening anytime soon.

The camera will be used for family occasions (parties, weddings, etc), holidays, odd photo here and there of a tree or something. lol.... but I hope you get the picture.


although the 550D does look damn good, but I want to know how to use it to its full potential and not just have a fancy camera and know nothing about it....
kyussmondo
24-11-2010
Firstly, I would recommend Nikon or Canon. Personally I prefer Nikon. Nikon is generally easier to use, but you can't go wrong with either. At first it is fine to use Auto and Scene modes. However, I would recommend reading through the manual and understanding all the functions. Also get to grips with the fundamentals like aperture, ISO, depth of field, shutter speed etc. For example, if I am shooting a band I know I am working in low light and won't be able to use a flash. So I know I need a fast lens with a high aperture and an ISO of 800-1600. I also need spot metering and single point focus so I focus on the musician rather than the camera focusing on the lights, which it would do in auto etc. It is all about learning by reading and practicing.

I have the Nikon D5000. It has the same quality as the D300 which is more expensive. The D3100 also gets good reviews. Only pros need full frame cameras like the D700 and D3X/S. Then invest in good lens over time. The Nikon 35mm lens is nice for low light, portraits. A wide angle for landscapes or buildings and a 200-300 telephoto for sports, wildlife, portraits etc. Good lens will last forever, so get nice lens. If you need a lens that you only need for a special occasion then hire it.

Also shoot in RAW. Yes the camera can give great results. But by just changing a few levels in Lightroom or Aperture then you can really bring a picture alive.
Assa2
24-11-2010
I took the plunge and got a 500D in April - and haven't looked back. I am by no means even an enthusiastic amateur but having something as sophisticated as a reasonable DSLR makes a world of difference to any shots you take. I have found myself taking 'arty' photos where I'd never have thought of doing so before and they're so good they've ended up framed on the wall! And trust me, it's not down to any latent talent on my part!

You can find 'cheaper' lenses if you're happy to compromise over things like image stability. I bought a refurbished 75-300. Still has the same Canon garuntee as a new lense but was under £100. I think for most people a long lense like this, a good macro lense (next on my list) and the standard lense should be enough. I want a proper telescopic lense so I can do some astronomical photography.

By far the best investement though would be a large SD card. 16GB gives plenty of room. At the Royal International Air Tatoo this year I took 1250 photos on one day using the continuous shoot facility and although afterwards I cut it down to around 200 good shots in amongs that are some truely stunning photos that I'd never have got using a p&s camera.

Not needed an extra battery so far but if i was going on a holiday like a safari I might get one.

My advice... if you have the money, take the plunge.
TheBigM
24-11-2010
What you could do is buy a lower end Canon like the 400D as these are quite a bit cheaper. You don't need to be creative but you should learn about all the controls you have - aperture, shutter speed, ISO etc

If you like it, then you can always upgrade the body in the future. Within a couple of years the 550D will be the price that the 450D is now. (It commands a bit of a premium as the 550D is currently the newest xxxD from Canon). And if you don't like it, you've spent less money.

As I mentioned the 50mm f/1.8 is a great lens and cheap - currently about £80. Good for portraiture like at weddings and family events. Also my kit lens is 18-135mm not 17-85mm so gets into the mid telephoto area.
nathanbrazil
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by TheBigM:
“Am loving my 550D, don't have many opportunities to use it right now due to work but Africa in December should see me filling up that memory card!”

From the sound of it, having a camera a versatile and of such good quality as a true SLR is very much to your benefit. If the OP really wants to have a camera that can be expanded via other lenses, etc, then SLR is what he needs.

But if the OP just wants to take stunning shots with the minimum of fuss, and only occasionally dabble in the world of manual settings, then one of the latest super-zooms or bridge cameras could be just the job.

Panasonic FZ100 and main rivals
http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...review/rivals/
Biffo the Bear
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by TheBigM:
“As I mentioned the 50mm f/1.8 is a great lens and cheap - currently about £80. Good for portraiture like at weddings and family events. Also my kit lens is 18-135mm not 17-85mm so gets into the mid telephoto area.”

Oh yeah, the 50mm is, for me, the best lens there is vs price.

At 2.8 it outdoes my 24-70 for clarity - in fact, I've found that I'm using it more than my L lenses, which is quite ironic given the cost differences between them!
tony13579
24-11-2010
Spare battery- yes.. my battery does about 1000 non flash photos but the canon one died and I was greatfull for my cheepo 7day shop spare on my trip to greenland

Flash. the built in flash is fantastic. it does most people. However If you are trying to do professional portrait pgotography, or streaching the bounderies a remote flash (or two!) and reflectors are going to extend your results to a different level

you will need/want a longer lens. the standard lens s fantastic within its range.

You will want a camera bag and lens tube for and new lens or a sling shot camera rucksack

your lenses are more important than the camera body! spend money on the your lenses. do you want your camera to shoot video? if you zoom the sound of the zoom will be picked up on the video. for video you need to spend on a decent tripod £100+


I am still learning how to get the best from my 450d
however you can start with auto, macro portrait landscape settings and then slowly learn the mannual functions at your leasure. I would advide trying to learn a new manual function/skill a month.
Darthchaffinch
24-11-2010
Ignore the bloke harping on about his 'amazing' FZ100:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/digital...-fz100-review/

"Despite stellar specs, Panasonic’s Lumix DMC-FZ100 takes noisy still photos and poor-quality video."

My advice is to post on avforums or talkphotography where people tend to know what they're talking about...
cribology
24-11-2010
I knew nothing about photography when I bought my 550D. But I am glad that I bought it as you can increase your knowledge with it. Get it with the kit lens and the 50mm 1.8 (which is excellent). Leave the zoom lens for later.
I didn't get a flash gun (OTT IMHO). I bought bought a set of 3 extension tubes for £15 and a bundle containing a battery grip with two batteries and a remote control for £55 from Hong Kong.
My point and shoot has been gathering dust ever since.
550D video quality is superb albeit manual focus (Plenty of HQ samples on Vimeo).
Darthchaffinch
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by cribology:
“I knew nothing about photography when I bought my 550D. But I am glad that I bought it as you can increase your knowledge with it. Get it with the kit lens and the 50mm 1.8 (which is excellent). Leave the zoom lens for later.
I didn't get a flash gun (OTT IMHO). I bought bought a set of 3 extension tubes for £15 and a bundle containing a battery grip with two batteries and a remote control for £55 from Hong Kong.
My point and shoot has been gathering dust ever since.
550D video quality is superb albeit manual focus (Plenty of HQ samples on Vimeo).”

A colleague has the D550 and loves it.

Where did you get the tubes please mate?
cribology
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by Darthchaffinch:
“A colleague has the D550 and loves it.

Where did you get the tubes please mate?”

www.linkdelight.com

As extension tubes are hollow, I bought one of the cheapest ones as they all have no effect on image quality, however there are slightly more expensive ones from the same website if you want a more "expensive looking" tube.
kyussmondo
24-11-2010
You should also think about getting a tripod and remote shutter release. Even with VR built in, it is still better to have a sturdy tripod when taking pictures to avoid camera shake.
dodgygeeza
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“You should also think about getting a tripod and remote shutter release. Even with VR built in, it is still better to have a sturdy tripod when taking pictures to avoid camera shake.”

Depends what you're shooting, tripods are only really practical for stuff that stays still or when you really need to use a long exposure such as night photography. Also tripods can in some circumstances cause problems with resonance from the mirror movement actually causing worse camera shake than if you took the same shot handheld.
Assa2
24-11-2010
You can also use a computer i.e. laptop to control your camera (remote shutter release etc...) and to preview shots so buying a remote shutter release is not necessarily required.

One good investement would abe a good DSLR begginer's book, though.
brangdon
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by Biffo the Bear:
“I'd say you benefit mostly from using a dSLR if you want to play around with aperture and shutter settings. If you're planning on whapping it on full auto all the time, then perhaps consider a bridge camera or four thirds system, like the above Lumices ”

I had a bridge camera. I found it frustrating for its slow shot-to-shot time. Also the image quality wasn't really good enough. Nor was it particularly cheap. The lens was impressive, but you only get the one.

So I feel if someone wants to spend £400 for a DSLR used in auto, then they should go ahead. I got a Pentax K-x and it is a joy to use compared to the bridge camera.

I think pretty much all cameras at that level are good, so people will tend to recommend whatever they own.
Darthchaffinch
24-11-2010
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“You can also use a computer i.e. laptop to control your camera (remote shutter release etc...) and to preview shots so buying a remote shutter release is not necessarily required.

One good investement would abe a good DSLR begginer's book, though.”

Understanding exposure by Bryan Peterson is the photography book.
dmp
24-11-2010
Canon also have a club magazine, while not specific with the 450-550 range it does have some very good tips and hints on using the camera. It does cost, around £20 a year for a magazine every couple of months. Possibly worth thinking about.
Dave
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