If Stuart isn't mauled during the interview week, he could be in the final. He is a trier.
Is Stuart Baggs the strongest man left?
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Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“All I know is I would have asked...”
“All I know is I would have asked...”
And, when the task was over and the pitches had already been done, what use would you have made of that information?
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“You don't really need evidence - the results speak for themselves and we saw Stella kicking Laura's @rse over her petulance. Thus she was a better manager - although she needed to be with an idiot child on her team.”
“You don't really need evidence - the results speak for themselves and we saw Stella kicking Laura's @rse over her petulance. Thus she was a better manager - although she needed to be with an idiot child on her team.”
Laura wasn't even in Germany on the first day, so that's not relevant. As I recall, we don't see Stella interacting with the German half-team except to ignore Joanna's feedback on flavours. There's no evidence that Stella's remote management is the reason they got 9 appointments rather than 6. Nor does anything Stella did have anything to do with them getting the 9am appointment - the 1pm had already been taken by the time they phone the client up.
Quote:
“Chris was told by the client himself that the other team had beaten them to it....”
“Chris was told by the client himself that the other team had beaten them to it....”
Yes. But that's not a reason to think his team made a mistake. The natural explanation is that the other team happened to phone the client first. It's only our superior viewers' viewpoint that makes it worth querying.
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“Laura wasn't even in Germany on the first day, so that's not relevant. As I recall, we don't see Stella interacting with the German half-team except to ignore Joanna's feedback on flavours, There's no evidence that Stella's remote management is the reason they got 9 appointments rather than 6. ...”
“Laura wasn't even in Germany on the first day, so that's not relevant. As I recall, we don't see Stella interacting with the German half-team except to ignore Joanna's feedback on flavours, There's no evidence that Stella's remote management is the reason they got 9 appointments rather than 6. ...”
Erm, you're the one who brought up the geographical difference, not me. Effective management is effective management - it matters not one iota whether team members are in the same room, down the road or over the other side of the world...
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“...Nor does anything Stella did have anything to do with them getting the 9am appointment - the 1pm had already been taken by the time they phone the client up.
Yes. But that's not a reason to think his team made a mistake. The natural explanation is that the other team happened to phone the client first. It's only our superior viewers' viewpoint that makes it worth querying.”
“...Nor does anything Stella did have anything to do with them getting the 9am appointment - the 1pm had already been taken by the time they phone the client up.
Yes. But that's not a reason to think his team made a mistake. The natural explanation is that the other team happened to phone the client first. It's only our superior viewers' viewpoint that makes it worth querying.”
Stella's management overall was better and more effective than Chris' because she had a better handle on things and we saw her influencing outcomes....on the 'phone. I repeat, I couldn't care less whether she was on the phone to them from a different country or not.
To be clear, I'm not criticising Chris for Jamie and Christopher stuffing up the 0900hrs appointment - of course he couldn't have done anyth that! - I criticise him for hearing about it for the first time in the boardroom! If I'd been on the losing team as often as he had, I would certainly have probed as to why (or how) the other team managed to get in first...in preparation for covering my @rse if need be. Not saying I would have got any answers but it was clear he hadn't even asked any questions!
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“And, when the task was over and the pitches had already been done, what use would you have made of that information?”
“And, when the task was over and the pitches had already been done, what use would you have made of that information?”
Conscious I'd been on the losing team more times than anyone else and that I couldn't afford any more howlers, @rse-covering and ammunition for the boardroom...
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“Stella's management overall was better and more effective than Chris' because she had a better handle on things and we saw her influencing outcomes....on the 'phone. I repeat, I couldn't care less whether she was on the phone to them from a different country or not.”
“Stella's management overall was better and more effective than Chris' because she had a better handle on things and we saw her influencing outcomes....on the 'phone. I repeat, I couldn't care less whether she was on the phone to them from a different country or not.”
And despite being well aware of the temperament of her team members, Stella made Laura and Stuart feel so undervalued that she antagonised Laura into having a shouting, swearing temper tantrum during which she happily stated that she would love to sabotage the team. Laura was at fault for reacting that way, but Stella was at fault too. She CAUSED that reaction through her poor management, knowing full well just what would happen when she called Laura to say that.
IMO Stu would've been a much better manager than Stella. Indeed, I think he was a better manager in that task than Stella, even if Stella was the one with the title.
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“And despite being well aware of the temperament of her team members, Stella made Laura and Stuart feel so undervalued that she antagonised Laura into having a shouting, swearing temper tantrum during which she happily stated that she would love to sabotage the team. Laura was at fault for reacting that way, but Stella was at fault too. She CAUSED that reaction through her poor management, knowing full well just what would happen when she called Laura to say that.
IMO Stu would've been a much better manager than Stella. Indeed, I think he was a better manager in that task than Stella, even if Stella was the one with the title.”
“And despite being well aware of the temperament of her team members, Stella made Laura and Stuart feel so undervalued that she antagonised Laura into having a shouting, swearing temper tantrum during which she happily stated that she would love to sabotage the team. Laura was at fault for reacting that way, but Stella was at fault too. She CAUSED that reaction through her poor management, knowing full well just what would happen when she called Laura to say that.
IMO Stu would've been a much better manager than Stella. Indeed, I think he was a better manager in that task than Stella, even if Stella was the one with the title.”
I agree Stella wasn't faultless but Laura's been either extremely obtuse or in sabotage mode on every team she's been in so Stella can hardly be blamed for her behaviour on this occasion...
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“I agree Stella wasn't faultless but Laura's been either extremely obtuse or in sabotage mode on every team she's been in so Stella can hardly be blamed for her behaviour on this occasion...”
“I agree Stella wasn't faultless but Laura's been either extremely obtuse or in sabotage mode on every team she's been in so Stella can hardly be blamed for her behaviour on this occasion...”
You're right.
Laura has been like that EVERY TIME.
So why did the manager encourage it? As a manager she should've been treating Laura with kid gloves, trying to make sure that she didn't give her cause to go off on her usual tantrum. She's a manager, it's her job to manage the people under her. She didn't.
I'm not a Stu fan (I'm not a fan of anyone, really) but I was impressed by the way he brought the best out in Joanna and managed to calm Laura after Stella royally annoyed her.
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“You're right.
Laura has been like that EVERY TIME.
So why did the manager encourage it? As a manager she should've been treating Laura with kid gloves, trying to make sure that she didn't give her cause to go off on her usual tantrum. She's a manager, it's her job to manage the people under her. She didn't.
I'm not a Stu fan (I'm not a fan of anyone, really) but I was impressed by the way he brought the best out in Joanna and managed to calm Laura after Stella royally annoyed her.”
“You're right.
Laura has been like that EVERY TIME.
So why did the manager encourage it? As a manager she should've been treating Laura with kid gloves, trying to make sure that she didn't give her cause to go off on her usual tantrum. She's a manager, it's her job to manage the people under her. She didn't.
I'm not a Stu fan (I'm not a fan of anyone, really) but I was impressed by the way he brought the best out in Joanna and managed to calm Laura after Stella royally annoyed her.”
Project Managing's one thing, babysitting is something else! Laura's applying for a job paying £100,000 so she shouldn't have to be babysat, nannied nor carried by the PM nor anyone else.
But I agree with you ref: Stuart who has a lot of strong points.
And isn't he younger than Laura?
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“Project Managing's one thing, babysitting is something else! Laura's applying for a job paying £100,000 so she shouldn't have to be babysat, nannied nor carried by the PM nor anyone else.
But I agree with you ref: Stuart who has a lot of strong points. And isn't he younger than Laura?”
“Project Managing's one thing, babysitting is something else! Laura's applying for a job paying £100,000 so she shouldn't have to be babysat, nannied nor carried by the PM nor anyone else.
But I agree with you ref: Stuart who has a lot of strong points.
And isn't he younger than Laura?”
Doesn't matter. You don't often get to choose who you work with. if you want to be a successful manager, you have to find a way of dealing with those people. It's not just poor management to deliberately and perhaps unfairly piss off your unpredictable team members. It's consciously counter-productive.
I'm not defending Laura. I agree with your assessment of her. I do think her unhappiness was justified, though.
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“Doesn't matter. You don't often get to choose who you work with. if you want to be a successful manager, you have to find a way of dealing with those people. It's not just poor management to deliberately and perhaps unfairly piss off your unpredictable team members. It's consciously counter-productive.
I'm not defending Laura. I agree with your assessment of her. I do think her unhappiness was justified, though.”
“Doesn't matter. You don't often get to choose who you work with. if you want to be a successful manager, you have to find a way of dealing with those people. It's not just poor management to deliberately and perhaps unfairly piss off your unpredictable team members. It's consciously counter-productive.
I'm not defending Laura. I agree with your assessment of her. I do think her unhappiness was justified, though.”
But Stella requesting that Laura and Stu move on to other things because it made sense logistically wasn't an ureasonable one so I don't see how you interpret it as 'deliberately pissing her off'.
Stuart couldn't see that there was a problem either. Laura's petulance seemed to stem from the incorrect notion that they had individual order books - which they didn't....
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“But Stella requesting that Laura and Stu move on to other things because it made sense logistically wasn't an ureasonable one so I don't see how you interpret it as 'deliberately pissing her off'. Stuart couldn't see that there was a problem either. Laura's petulance seemed to stem from the incorrect notion that they had individual order books - which they didn't....”
“But Stella requesting that Laura and Stu move on to other things because it made sense logistically wasn't an ureasonable one so I don't see how you interpret it as 'deliberately pissing her off'.
Stuart couldn't see that there was a problem either. Laura's petulance seemed to stem from the incorrect notion that they had individual order books - which they didn't....”
There has to be a balance struck between interpersonal relations, and logistics. There was nothing logistically WRONG with Stu and Laura going to the hotel. They were already on their way there and had prepared for it. They then had to turn around and travel across the city again to get to locations that they were neither practically nor mentally prepared to pitch at. And in the process, she then ensured that half of her team were unhappy with her leadership skills and would rip her apart in the boardroom if they lost.
The logistical benefit from them going there was nowhere near as large as the personal discontent she caused by "stealing" their pitch from them.
If you are arranged and scheduled to do something and you're looking forward to it, then someone tells you you can't, it's frustrating. There may be good reasons, but a PM has to understand that it will piss them off. In this case I think she made a massive error that would've come back to bite her if she had lost the task. Given Joanna's cold-selling skills, it was also reasonable to assume that she would've done a better job on the street than Stu and a furious Laura.
Stu did seem to be unhappy with it (agreed with Laura initially, before she exploded), but he was willing to register his unhappiness and get on with the task in spite of it.
Originally Posted by Psychosis:
“There has to be a balance struck between interpersonal relations, and logistics. There was nothing logistically WRONG with Stu and Laura going to the hotel. They were already on their way there and had prepared for it. They then had to turn around and travel across the city again to get to locations that they were neither practically nor mentally prepared to pitch at. And in the process, she then ensured that half of her team were unhappy with her leadership skills and would rip her apart in the boardroom if they lost.
The logistical benefit from them going there was nowhere near as large as the personal discontent she caused by "stealing" their pitch from them.
If you are arranged and scheduled to do something and you're looking forward to it, then someone tells you you can't, it's frustrating. There may be good reasons, but a PM has to understand that it will piss them off. In this case I think she made a massive error that would've come back to bite her if she had lost the task. Given Joanna's cold-selling skills, it was also reasonable to assume that she would've done a better job on the street than Stu and a furious Laura.
Stu did seem to be unhappy with it (agreed with Laura initially, before she exploded), but he was willing to register his unhappiness and get on with the task in spite of it.”
“There has to be a balance struck between interpersonal relations, and logistics. There was nothing logistically WRONG with Stu and Laura going to the hotel. They were already on their way there and had prepared for it. They then had to turn around and travel across the city again to get to locations that they were neither practically nor mentally prepared to pitch at. And in the process, she then ensured that half of her team were unhappy with her leadership skills and would rip her apart in the boardroom if they lost.
The logistical benefit from them going there was nowhere near as large as the personal discontent she caused by "stealing" their pitch from them.
If you are arranged and scheduled to do something and you're looking forward to it, then someone tells you you can't, it's frustrating. There may be good reasons, but a PM has to understand that it will piss them off. In this case I think she made a massive error that would've come back to bite her if she had lost the task. Given Joanna's cold-selling skills, it was also reasonable to assume that she would've done a better job on the street than Stu and a furious Laura.
Stu did seem to be unhappy with it (agreed with Laura initially, before she exploded), but he was willing to register his unhappiness and get on with the task in spite of it.”
When having the conversation, Stella and Joanne were already at the hotel. Furthermore when asked by LA in the boardroom, Laura beamed and said Stella had been a very good PM! Laura would have had a tantrum regardless of what she was asked to do or where she was asked to go - she always does...
Laura should have been grateful she wasn't on the other team. Chris & Liz hoovered up all the big appointments for themselves and left Jamie and Christopher with nothing.
I think Stubags handled Laura reasonably well in the car, but saying he "brought out the best in Joanna" is a stretch. Joanna's shown skill in both the things she did in this task (setting up appointments and sales) without any help from him.
I don't understand either how Stella is supposed to know about Laura's temperament issues. She's never seen them. She's worked with her on task 1 - sausages (no problems from Laura) and last week (again, no problems from Laura, and she was never on a subteam with Stella at any point). That's it.
I think Stubags handled Laura reasonably well in the car, but saying he "brought out the best in Joanna" is a stretch. Joanna's shown skill in both the things she did in this task (setting up appointments and sales) without any help from him.
I don't understand either how Stella is supposed to know about Laura's temperament issues. She's never seen them. She's worked with her on task 1 - sausages (no problems from Laura) and last week (again, no problems from Laura, and she was never on a subteam with Stella at any point). That's it.
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“Erm, you're the one who brought up the geographical difference, not me.”
“Erm, you're the one who brought up the geographical difference, not me.”
Yes, I've been consistent. Chris wasn't looking over Jamie and Christopher's shoulder, so couldn't know what they were doing unless they told him, which they didn't. He could ask, but he could only ask about what he knew to ask about; about things he knew needed to be explained. Getting the afternoon appointment didn't need to be explained. He had no reason to think there was an interesting explanation.
Quote:
“If I'd been on the losing team as often as he had, I would certainly have probed as to why (or how) the other team managed to get in first...in preparation for covering my @rse if need be. Not saying I would have got any answers but it was clear he hadn't even asked any questions!”
“If I'd been on the losing team as often as he had, I would certainly have probed as to why (or how) the other team managed to get in first...in preparation for covering my @rse if need be. Not saying I would have got any answers but it was clear he hadn't even asked any questions!”
Actually we don't know what he asked. Jamie later said he'd forgotten the incident, so maybe he asked Jamie and Jamie didn't tell him. What we see is an edit. Mostly them moping in the cafe, edited to make them look like losers.
But really, there was no big reason to ask why the other team got in first. The order in which they phoned people would have been more or less random. Someone had to be first and it happened to be the other team. Without observing them directly - which he couldn't do because he wasn't in the same country - Chris had no reason to be suspicious.
Put it this way: there's no reason to think Stella would have been any different, had Jamie and Christopher been on her team. The idea that she won the task through her fantastic manager is a myth. Nor we have any idea whether she's better at analysing failure.
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“Yes, I've been consistent. Chris wasn't looking over Jamie and Christopher's shoulder, so couldn't know what they were doing unless they told him, which they didn't. He could ask, but he could only ask about what he knew to ask about; about things he knew needed to be explained. Getting the afternoon appointment didn't need to be explained. He had no reason to think there was an interesting explanation.
Actually we don't know what he asked. Jamie later said he'd forgotten the incident, so maybe he asked Jamie and Jamie didn't tell him. What we see is an edit. Mostly them moping in the cafe, edited to make them look like losers.
But really, there was no big reason to ask why the other team got in first. The order in which they phoned people would have been more or less random. Someone had to be first and it happened to be the other team. Without observing them directly - which he couldn't do because he wasn't in the same country - Chris had no reason to be suspicious.
Put it this way: there's no reason to think Stella would have been any different, had Jamie and Christopher been on her team. The idea that she won the task through her fantastic manager is a myth. Nor we have any idea whether she's better at analysing failure.”
“Yes, I've been consistent. Chris wasn't looking over Jamie and Christopher's shoulder, so couldn't know what they were doing unless they told him, which they didn't. He could ask, but he could only ask about what he knew to ask about; about things he knew needed to be explained. Getting the afternoon appointment didn't need to be explained. He had no reason to think there was an interesting explanation.
Actually we don't know what he asked. Jamie later said he'd forgotten the incident, so maybe he asked Jamie and Jamie didn't tell him. What we see is an edit. Mostly them moping in the cafe, edited to make them look like losers.
But really, there was no big reason to ask why the other team got in first. The order in which they phoned people would have been more or less random. Someone had to be first and it happened to be the other team. Without observing them directly - which he couldn't do because he wasn't in the same country - Chris had no reason to be suspicious.
Put it this way: there's no reason to think Stella would have been any different, had Jamie and Christopher been on her team. The idea that she won the task through her fantastic manager is a myth. Nor we have any idea whether she's better at analysing failure.”
Stella's management was more effective than Chris' and whilst it wasn't faultess nor was it the only factor, it contributed to why her team won the task as well as why she's had more wins than him overall - simple. You may not acknowledge that but that doesn't mean others can't.
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“Put it this way: there's no reason to think Stella would have been any different, had Jamie and Christopher been on her team. The idea that she won the task through her fantastic manager is a myth. Nor we have any idea whether she's better at analysing failure.”
“Put it this way: there's no reason to think Stella would have been any different, had Jamie and Christopher been on her team. The idea that she won the task through her fantastic manager is a myth. Nor we have any idea whether she's better at analysing failure.”
She wasn't especially good at keeping her team in the loop.
She made the choices of crisp flavour before the subteam fed back, ignoring the market research, and she didn't tell Stuart and Laura that they'd switched the pitches until it was already too late to do anything, while S&L were on their way.
Neither team communicated perfectly. 'Bout the same, I'd say. Not major flaws on either side, though. Both good team leaders.
Best contestant on the show by far simply because he is so cringeworthy you just wanna see what he does next.
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