Anne should not retire. It would be very bad for SCD if she did because it would mean it's happened twice, and that competitors who are getting the public vote that don't think they should be there for whatever reason should bow out. It would also mean those that have already voted for her would have wasted their money. No, that would not be fair.

She also shouldn't be blamed for what's happening in my view. The blame lies 100% with which ever idiot in the production team decided it would be a good idea to invite her. Doubtless they thought it would raise viewing figures and be a good laugh which it has been (for me and many others). If it now backfires and she goes on to win then they to blame - not Anne.

Matt may also be popular because children know him from Blue Peter, and children are a significant audience for Strictly, especially now it starts at 6pm and doesn't clash with XFactor. When children watch, the parents watch too.

Matt has very good recognition, with Countryfile, The One Show AND Strictly, never mind from his time on Blue Peter

Of course, for the tabloids, "Good News is No News"

JJ

Yes - even a dahnce purist like myself finds him boring; but I love watching him dance.

I agree.

She should, like the other competitors, be part of the process.

However:


She can most certainly be blamed for her dismissive lack-of-attempt to even pretend to learn the majority of the dances, and for treating the competition in a different way to the other competitors. It's dishonest, it shows no respect for the dances, and it's unfair to the contestants who are working hard to perform those dances to the best of their ability.


If she wins, it'd put me off, but then I really don't think she'll win.

I think she's being built up as John Sargeant Mark II, but I also think she's getting far less votes than Sargeant did.

I also think that once Patsy (and possibly Gavin) go, there's a very good chance she'll find herself in the bottom 2, and I'll be surprised to see her get to the semis, let alone the finals.

Disagree with that, did you miss his samba? I loved it, Len really is in decline with his judging and bbc should revoke his contract for next year. Rather than moaning about Matt/Aliona of which I've noticed a lot of people have done and thinking that they don't have any chemistry is untrue. The berks at the bbc are trying to manipulate it all by showing that bust up in training.

Wonder whether bbc are customer fit for purpose or they put in Ann to hike up revenue? god only knows. Anyway I hope people use their votes practically now because Ann is getting boring now, hasn't really got a personality, just the vote from tory party voters. Moira Ross and Mark Linsey should have a dramatic rethink who they put in next year and should consult with us more.

About time Anns caller fanbase dropped like a stone as we want to see who is remembering their choreography and stuff like that. Ann clearly isn't and looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to have spotted the two most recent and outrageously transparent attempts at hyping Ann further. Susanna Reid's question to Julian was 'Are you watching Strictly with Ann and Anton?' - so the other contestants aren't even worth mentioning! It was nearly as bad earlier in the week: when Felicity and Vincent appeared to discuss their exit, half the item was them beng forced to talk about Ann.

The BBC has very obviously issued instructions to promote Ann over all other contestants, at the same time as gagging them so everyone is forced to say 'nice' things about her (she's 'entertaining', she's been 'on a journey', she's 'popular' ... :yawn. These platitudes are sounding ever more hollow and forced and the more we are subject to them, the more false they sound. Nobody I know - spanning all age groups - likes her and the more we are force-fed stories about her 'success', the greater the anti-Ann feeling, especially if one of the frontrunners goes before she does (and Kara could be vulnerable if she has an off week).

DJ (welcome back! ): I totally agree about Ann's cynicism and lack of respect. Pretty much everything about her involvement is unfair and the BBC is making it worse, not better. Thank you for starting this thread. I wonder what Terry will have to say about it ...

This is really my issue with AW. There are a few Strictly faultlines, that can throw the programme off. One is the whole entertainment/dance issue, which the celebs can't really do anything about, except pull out (which I also have a problem with). The other is the celeb's personal engagement in the programme. Ann has the least engagement I can remember, prepared to make virtually no concessions with regard to her own agenda, openly dismissing half the dances. She should never have been signed up, once all her conditions were made clear. Actors just looking for a paying gig till panto, are bastions of integrity in comparison.

Yes, I saw that. Although, to be fair, the subtext was clear - "shouldn't rubbish dancers be gone before you two?"


Yes, there's a party line, obviously.


Thank you. Good to be back.

I wouldn't know, and as I want to stay here, I couldn't possibly comment...

One difference though between Anne and John Sergeant is that the other competitors seem to like her, and say that she's working hard. Are they being told by the BBC to put on an act? I don't know, but when she's finished her dancing and joins the others they all seem to greet her efforts warmly, and that would be hard to fake for the non-actors among them.

Maybe she is working hard but just can't do it. Felicity and Pamela both seem to be ladies who have kept themselves fit, whereas Anne, judging by her appearance, hasn't. For a woman in her 60s it would take months just to arrive at the level of fitness needed to train properly, and that's assuming she has no medical problems at all. So maybe she's just doing the best she can with what she's got. I agree she appears not to care, and to contradict and put her foot down all the time, but we know how the VT footage is edited to give a certain impression. Could be the BBC just thinks it's funny and wants to give that impression of her.

I'm just playing devils advocate here. Somebody has to see that there's another side to everything. I also would like her to be voted out soon. But I'm not going to blame her for what may not be her fault.

I agree that I think people are getting tired of her and I think she is likely to go in the next couple of weeks. I do think that this sort of thing happens each year and the 'joke' contestant usually goes before the final (except for the man in the first series but he was funny). I think if John Sargent had stayed, he also would have been voted off before the final. In reality most people have ended up going just a week before they would have gone anyway. The exception was Jimi who I think could have lasted a few more weeks.

I suspect Ann's isn't near the top of the public vote, which is why the Beeb are still pandering to her, she brings in publicity, but is in no danger of winning it. I think she'll go this week or next*


*Or at least that's what I tell myself when I awaken in a cold sweat from dreams of Ann lifting the glitterball

That's probably a good thing. If everyone was seen to be laying into Ann (as was the case with John Sergeant), then I suspect there'd be a backlash and even greater support for the woman.

Possibly. Difficult to say whether this liking is:
- Part of the party line: She's having fun, it's all about fun, we're all fun people, did I mention fun, etc.
- Natural reaction to perceived popularity: no-one wants to be the first to mention that the emperor has no clothes.


She has explicitly stated that she'll try to do the ballroom dances but won't bother trying to learn the Latin ones. She's said that.


To be honest, fitness should not be a major issue. Rumba requires far less effort than - for example - quickstep. Plus, dance is a physical exercise. If she didn't feel fit enough to do it, then an honest person would have said so at the start.

Finally, it's not a question of fitness - it's a question of "morality" for Ann. Apparently the entire spectrum of Latin dances are Evil and Suggestive.


I don't believe that anyone gets to be both at the top level of UK politics, and a minister in a UK government, without knowing precisely how the media works, and without having a very good idea of how to manipulate such media.

But I'm glad you're putting up a reasoned defence, instead of the usual idiotic pro-Ann posts.

Practically there is no way Widders could do the 4 or 5 dances required in a final - it is a non starter to think she can win.

I think if she makes it far enough she may have to retire on health grounds. She's basically not fit enough.

I would guess these two are closely linked.

I don't think anyone has ever tried boycotting a whole class of standard danced on the grounds they're improper. It's a good "unique selling point". Everyone else is competing on being good; she's competing on quite the opposite and is thus ideally placed to hoover up votes from the early Saturday night crowd who just want a laugh. Or followers of the Catholic Church, who might agree that Latin dancing is improper, even if they are progressives with regards to homosexuals.

I agree that the Beeb is over promoting her relative to the opposition but they cynically churn out utter sh*te to entertain the masses every other day of the week, promote it blatantly untruthfully - "Eastenders: Everyone's talking about it" Err... no we're not - so why would we expect Saturday night to be any different?

In addition to agreeing with pretty much all the points DJ has made, I'd add the following ...

Are the other contestants being told to put on an act? Absolutely. How on earth would you feel if you were putting in all the hours available, working through injuries and sickness, determined to put your heart and soul into your job, and you came into work and saw someone making the bare minimum of effort and even refusing to do some of the things you are obliged to? They would have to be inhuman not to feel frustrated, at the very least. The gagging order placed on the other celebrities is real and there is more and more gritting of teeth going on as each day passes. Felicity did quite a good job earlier this week on BBC Breakfast - but it was obviously forced.

Much as you might want to look for reasons for Ann to be underperforming, they don't exist. Like all contestants, Ann will have had to undergo a medical and have been certified fit to perform. If she had any ailments that might potentially prevent this, the doctor would have ruled her out of the game. She has explicitly stated her reasons for not doing some dances and they are nothing to do with health.

The Ann 'edited together' by the BBC is exactly the same Ann whose own words can be read in her columns in the Radio Times and in the Daily Express. What you see is exactly what you get. Ann expressly stated the terms by which she'd participate in Strictly so there is no way she cannot be blamed for this. But equally to blame are the BBC executives who agreed to those terms.

Of course the BBC is using her to generate publicity for the show. But Ann has an appetite for public attention - all politicians do - and an ego that needs feeding ... and, from where I'm sitting, that's a marriage made in hell.

So:
- Do you agree that the publicity is wearing thin? Yes

- Do you think that the tone of comments / stories is sounding more and more desperate? Yes

- Is 7/1 a good price for Ann? Only if she were the favourite in the Grand National out of 40 runners. With only 7 contestants left these are medium odds at best.

If you offset the frustration against being paid to dance on prime time TV then overall it's not bad.

Take Kara - I've nothing against the girl, but from what I've read, she'd not had a proper acting job for months and isn't pro standard as a dancer. Yet lo and behold, here she is on prime time telly getting paid to dance (and raise her profile dramatically) when most pros don't even get to dance on telly. How do they feel, do you wonder?

If the celebs feel so badly about Ann they can break rank. They repair any damage to their self-esteem at the cost of being sued for breach of contract and not working for the Beeb again. Life is full of choices. They chose to sign on the dotted line and they choose to play the game required by the Beeb for them to get their dosh.

Ann has more clout with the BBC than a TV actor (there aren't many 60 odd year old matronly virgin ex MPs available for hire, but there are any number of actors who would do SCD for a pittance) and a better lawyer.

No one ever said the real world was going to be like School Sports Day when everyone is a winner and everything is "fair".

Yep and to be honest, I've not heard any of them utter a bad word about her (and their comments seem genuine).

Jimi still says he enjoys watching Ann in his radio interviews and didn't Michelle say she wanted Ann & Anton to win? Brendan defended her too and Patsy and Ann have formed a very close albeit unlikely friendship.

I think many would like the other celebrities and the pros to be utterly fed up with Ann. But it's just not the case.

There may be a contractual clause to say that you have to remain "on message" until the series is finished or for some time afterwards, even when voted off. If I was a Beeb lawyer, I'd insist on that!

After SCD 2008, was there much comment from the contestants or departing pros about John Sargeant? Or was it a storm in a teacup, of interest only to the SCD fanatics that are drawn to Forums like this?

How do you know?

I don't think many of the comments are genuine. It is very clear there is a gagging order in place and only 'nice' comments about Ann are allowed. The pro's are worried about their job security after having seen what happened to Matthew, Ian, Darren and Lilya, and the celebs will have signed contracts with clauses preventing them from criticising either the show or other contestants. Plus the BBC is still a major employer and so speaking out could cost one of the celebrities a future job.

If you want to believe it, go ahead ... but not everyone does.

I don't know for sure anymore than you do that "It is very clear there is a gagging order in place and only 'nice' comments about Ann are allowed."

We're just speculating. But the vibes I'm getting from and the body language I'm seeing in the others, suggests Ann is well liked and is supported amongst the group. That's just my personal impression.

The only contestant so far who I think was getting a bit fed up of Ann was Felicity.

I'm sure most people don't. You only need to see friends turn on each other during pass the parcel at a kids' party to see what a bot of direct competition can do to people! The key thing is how many of those that don't believe it actually care? It's just a TV programme to the vast majority of viewers.