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Wagner got 4 yes's


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Old 27-11-2010, 09:09
Paace
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From the 4 judges on his audition, so Cowell and his gang have no one to blame but themselves if he is still there .
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:11
Bananafish
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He deserved at least 5.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:12
LolWtf
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I don't think they've wanted him gone yet.

He always has a late slot, big productions etc

Be interesting to see what happens now there's only a few weeks to go.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:18
willywonker
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He deserved at least 5.
4 judges and he should have got 5 votes.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:20
Bananafish
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4 judges and he should have got 5 votes.
Whoosh.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:23
Verence
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I don't think they've wanted him gone yet.

He always has a late slot, big productions etc

Be interesting to see what happens now there's only a few weeks to go.
The return of the double elimination means they want Wagner in the bottom 3. There's a chance he might not have the least votes but as soon as he's in the sing-off then he's toast. They'd even save Katie AGAIN if she was against Wagner
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:29
spkx
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You'll know when they want him to go because the coments will suddenly get positive. Simon and Cheryl aren't thick, they know by saying somthing negative it'll encourage votes and saying something positive will stop them.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:34
Bananafish
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You'll know when they want him to go because the coments will suddenly get positive. Simon and Cheryl aren't thick, they know by saying somthing negative it'll encourage votes and saying something positive will stop them.
Usually that would work, but Simon has been trying that spin to a degree already and so much negative stuff has been thrown against him for so many weeks now that positive comments could actually galvanise support.

As it would be a reward for for the beaten down underdog. And the British love their underdogs.

Jedward was undone not by the positive comments, but by sacrificing Lucie to create a backlash against them the following week. As Wagner has never been in the bottom 2/3 they haven't been able to play the controversial decision + backlash card for maximum interest and then the result they wanted shortly afterwards.

He's basically dangerously close to the final in their eyes for there to be any right or wrong way to play it, either could backfire.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:35
vidalia
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If they don't want the novelty acts to win they shouldn't put them in the competitions.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:38
vidalia
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Usually that would work, but Simon has been trying that spin to a degree already and so much negative stuff has been thrown against him for so many weeks now that positive comments could actually galvanise support.

As it would be a reward for for the beaten down underdog. And the British love their underdogs.

Jedward was undone not by the positive comments, but by sacrificing Lucie to create a backlash against them the following week. As Wagner has never been in the bottom 2/3 they haven't been able to play the controversial decision + backlash card for maximum interest and then the result they wanted shortly afterwards.

He's basically dangerously close to the final in their eyes for there to be any right or wrong way to play it, either could backfire.
Wagner should remember that - if he wins he will no longer be an underdog he will be a winner and the British like nothing more than building someone up only to knock them down again, or worse, forget about them altogether.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:41
Bananafish
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Wagner should remember that - if he wins he will no longer be an underdog he will be a winner and the British like nothing more than building someone up only to knock them down again, or worse, forget about them altogether.
Not really the same sort of situation, because they've tried to knock him down to the floor already. He can only go up. The British like knocking down over-hyped stuff, not being told what to do or who to like.

If he won, he'd be an Anti-Hero, a cult figure, and as such pretty immune to everything. Controversy powers those sort of characters, not destroy them. Which is why nothing in the press has stuck to him.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:52
Paace
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If they don't want the novelty acts to win they shouldn't put them in the competitions.
But Cowell is on a winner no matter what happens. He pretends he does but he doesn't care who wins once the Xfactor show tops the ratings, gets loads of advertising for ITV, and more millions to add to his multi million bank balance.

Cowell and his team deliberately pick the novelty/dud acts to audition in the first place.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:58
Bananafish
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But Cowell is on a winner no matter what happens. He pretends he does but he doesn't care who wins once the Xfactor show tops the ratings, gets loads of advertising for ITV, and more millions to add to his multi million bank balance.

Cowell and his team deliberately pick the novelty/dud acts to audition in the first place.
Yes, but there is still a narrative for the show which he wants followed. It has to keep up the pretence of talent show, even though it's really Big Brother with karaoke, with the 'best' person winning.

He played with a fire a bit this year to maximise ratings and controversy (which worked) but also misjudged the appeal of most of the contestants and underestimated the likeability of Wagner. He also couldn't foresee how well Wagner would actually play the show at it's own game, "embracing the madness" and knowing exactly how to respond to things like the boo'ing crowd and Cheryl etc.

The signs things weren't going to plan were made clear as soon as they dumped the double-eliminations after 2 weeks. The expected favourites weren't being received as well as he thought they would, and basically everyone has underperformed to varying degrees and the theme weeks have shown up their ability.

So into this vacuum of talent and likeability has stepped Wagner, and all these weeks on he's still there when according to the script he should have been toast by now.

If he makes the final, he will most likely win it.
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:59
vidalia
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Not really the same sort of situation, because they've tried to knock him down to the floor already. He can only go up. The British like knocking down over-hyped stuff, not being told what to do or who to like.

If he won, he'd be an Anti-Hero, a cult figure, and as such pretty immune to everything. Controversy powers those sort of characters, not destroy them. Which is why nothing in the press has stuck to him.
That never works for more than three weeks when it is a Simon Cowell related, reality talent contest induced anti-hero. He is just cannon fodder for Mr Cowell and his organisation.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:02
Bananafish
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That never works for more than three weeks when it is a Simon Cowell related, reality talent contest induced anti-hero. He is just cannon fodder for Mr Cowell and his organisation.
Doesn't matter what Cowell wants to do with him, he will be remembered LONG after the others have faded. And will probably be bought a drink in every pub he walks into for the rest of his life.

And Cowell being the money-man he is would actually make a small fortune off corporate events booking Wagner. Unlike say Leon would would struggle to be booked at even the opening of a school fete.

Wagner will do very well out of all this no matter how Cowell chooses to play it. He said all he wanted from this was "to be in showbusiness", well he's got that and played the game like a master so far.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:05
RupertPupkin
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From the 4 judges on his audition, so Cowell and his gang have no one to blame but themselves if he is still there .
Thought that read 'Wagner's got 4 years' then. Wouldn't have surprised me one bit.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:09
GARETH197901
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has anyone not thought that they might even want him to win,yes i know it sounds mental,but last years RATM campaign showed that a portion of the people in the country don't want the singer singing a identikit cover every year,so perhaps they are hoping Wagner wins,releases a novelty single at Christmas,it either goes well or tanks(if it tanks,Simon then says,i gave the British people a choice and they screwed up" ,if it goes well Simon takes the credit

Its a mad theory but its possible
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:10
vidalia
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Doesn't matter what Cowell wants to do with him, he will be remembered LONG after the others have faded. And will probably be bought a drink in every pub he walks into for the rest of his life.

And Cowell being the money-man he is would actually make a small fortune off corporate events booking Wagner. Unlike say Leon would would struggle to be booked at even the opening of a school fete.

Wagner will do very well out of all this no matter how Cowell chooses to play it. He said all he wanted from this was "to be in showbusiness", well he's got that and played the game like a master so far.
I suspect it will not last to the next series when he will be temporarily remembered before the next 'cult' is paraded before the public to be worshipped.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:13
Bananafish
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has anyone not thought that they might even want him to win,yes i know it sounds mental,but last years RATM campaign showed that people don't want the singer singing a identikit cover every year,so perhaps they are hoping Wagner wins,releases a novelty single at Christmas,it either goes well or tanks(if it tanks,Simon then says,i gave the British people a choice and they screwed up" ,if it goes well Simon takes the credit

Its a mad theory but its possible
They definitely didn't want it at the beginning, as I said the whole show has not run to script this year (pesky voters!). But as I've said this before, if he makes the final I think they might actually concede defeat. If it looks like they are trying to run against the tide.

And the 'big surprise' will the final will be Wagner being finally allowed to perform a song suited to him. With the judges falling out of their chairs in shock at how good it is.

It would make great television, which at the end of the day is all that X-Factor is about.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:18
Bananafish
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I suspect it will not last to the next series when he will be temporarily remembered before the next 'cult' is paraded before the public to be worshipped.
Depends what rebranding is done to the show before then, because it's morphing into BGT and taking the illusion of a flagship show away from X-Factor. And that illusion is all part of Cowell's illusion as music maestro. At the end of the day, no matter how he spins it, he didn't find any one with enough talent and X-Factor to be able to steal the show this year. Wagner did.

Faced with the added blow to credibility that Must Be The Music has done in only it's first attempt, you'll either see a rebranded X-Factor (most likely) or it will just further implode in it's attempt to out-do this year.

This year's X-Factor is Big Brother 7, Wagner is your Nikki, and it was all downhill for the show from there when they tried and failed to catch lightning in a bottle again.

Wagner is very much a one-off, because he's captured exactly what the show has become while also being aware of it at the same time. He's played the people who were playing him. So you have a protest vote combo'd with a likeability vote combo'd with a 'none of the above' vote.

You won't get the same circumstances again, and as such he will be remembered for a long time.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:21
vidalia
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Depends what rebranding is done to the show before then, because it's morphing into BGT and taking the illusion of a flagship show away from X-Factor. And that illusion is all part of Cowell's illusion as music maestro. At the end of the day, no matter how he spins it, he didn't find any one with enough talent and X-Factor to be able to steal the show this year. Wagner did.

Faced with the added blow to credibility that Must Be The Music has done in only it's first attempt, you'll either see a rebranded X-Factor (most likely) or it will just further implode in it's attempt to out-do this year.

This year's X-Factor is Big Brother 7, Wagner is your Nikki, and it was all downhill for the show from there when they tried and failed to catch lightning in a bottle again.

Wagner is very much a one-off, because he's captured exactly what the show has become while also being aware of it at the same time. So you have a protest vote combo'd with a likeability vote combo'd with a 'none of the above' vote.

You won't get the same circumstances again, and as such he will be remembered for a long time.
You have obviously thought it through and analysed it far more than I have and so you could very well be right but I have my doubts.

I'll meet you back here in a year and we can compare notes!
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:26
Bananafish
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You have obviously thought it through and analysed it far more than I have and so you could very well be right but I have my doubts.

I'll meet you back here in a year and we can compare notes!
Haha, yeah I do find it interesting how shows change and people's perceptions and reactions to the shows change. After the first live show I posted a thread "The Bigbrotherisation of X-Factor is now complete" with the similarities between the 2 and how I thought it would play out. And as the weeks have gone on, it's played out just like Big Brother before it's fall. Both on the show itself, and the forum, and in the media and the press.

Cowell is much more protective of brands though than Endemol were, Endemol literally thrived on car-crash television until they drove it into a wall.

If Wagner does win, it will be interesting to see what happens after and what form X-Factor takes next year.

We can indeed compare notes =)
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:27
BBwoofie
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has anyone not thought that they might even want him to win,yes i know it sounds mental,but last years RATM campaign showed that a portion of the people in the country don't want the singer singing a identikit cover every year,so perhaps they are hoping Wagner wins,releases a novelty single at Christmas,it either goes well or tanks(if it tanks,Simon then says,i gave the British people a choice and they screwed up" ,if it goes well Simon takes the credit

Its a mad theory but its possible
I don't think they would want him to win.
Simon is launching the show in the states Wagner would not be a good 'advert' for the show. Particularly if the press take the protest vote angle for him winning. I think in the US he has to start on the premise it is a serious talent search.
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:49
GARETH197901
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I don't think they would want him to win.
Simon is launching the show in the states Wagner would not be a good 'advert' for the show. Particularly if the press take the protest vote angle for him winning. I think in the US he has to start on the premise it is a serious talent search.
To be fair,i dont think what happens over here,would have any bearing on the american show,Simon's star is already risen over there,hes a big enough comodity to launch in the US without the UK show even coming into play,thanks to American Idol
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Old 27-11-2010, 11:22
themaninblack
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He deserved at least 5.
LOL YES!!!!
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