Artem has been excellent this year. I look forward to watching his routines.
Natalie has been very clever this year & I love her ballroom choregraphy.
Natalie has been very clever this year & I love her ballroom choregraphy.
Which pro has produced the best choreography this year?
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Artem. He's just a great choreographer. I like that he does go for a clarity and the true feeling of each dance type (AT, Charleston etc. all sublime) and brings out the best in Kara. I think this is the weakness in Aliona's choreography which, as a non-dancing viewer, I'm not sure I'd be able to guess what dance she's dancing a lot of the time - if this makes sense.
I think this is where Natalie gets my vote for the second best choreographer because she shows off Scott's skills - most of the time
- and really nails the actual dance so that even an dance-dummy like me can tell what she's dancing. It makes relaxing viewing.
I think this is where Natalie gets my vote for the second best choreographer because she shows off Scott's skills - most of the time
- and really nails the actual dance so that even an dance-dummy like me can tell what she's dancing. It makes relaxing viewing.
Natalie and Artem, without question, for me.
I do have to give special mention to Anton though, because whether you like Ann being in the competition or not (and I don't) - if indeed by this morning she still IS in it - he has choreographed some very imaginative stuff for her, and I think most pros would have had difficulty in choreographing for Ann - but I think he deserves credit for providing such clever choreography, even if she can't do it!
I do have to give special mention to Anton though, because whether you like Ann being in the competition or not (and I don't) - if indeed by this morning she still IS in it - he has choreographed some very imaginative stuff for her, and I think most pros would have had difficulty in choreographing for Ann - but I think he deserves credit for providing such clever choreography, even if she can't do it!
I just love Aliona's choreography. I love someone who dares to be differant and takes a bit of a risk. Last night was fabulous again, and the reaction of the audience is all you need to know about that one.
Artem has also been great with Kara.
I don't get the 'wonderful Natalie' comments, and how on other threads we get comments that Matt would have done better with Natalie. What? Scott has been one of the best since week one, but seemed to peak about three weeks ago, if anything he has gone backwards with Natalie since. Last night was woeful and well overmarked IMO.
Artem has also been great with Kara.
I don't get the 'wonderful Natalie' comments, and how on other threads we get comments that Matt would have done better with Natalie. What? Scott has been one of the best since week one, but seemed to peak about three weeks ago, if anything he has gone backwards with Natalie since. Last night was woeful and well overmarked IMO.
Artem in latin, Natalie in ballroom for me.
I used to like some of James' choreo, but this year he has done one too many 'start off dressed as a doctor/teacher etc and then rip off the costume' routines for me.
Aliona I think is an excellent choreographer, but not for Strictly. If she choreographed routines for pros, she could do her more quirky stuff and know that most of them would pull it off. But Matt is clearly struggling to achieve some of her ideas (in particular last night's acting), and she should realise that and start choreographing to his strengths.
I kind of disagree with that. There's no denying it's appealing to viewers, but at the same time I think a lot of the other pros have done a much better job of choreographing for older celebs. They might not get the comedy vote, but at least the celebs get to leave the competition feeling as though they've accomplished something.
I used to like some of James' choreo, but this year he has done one too many 'start off dressed as a doctor/teacher etc and then rip off the costume' routines for me.
Aliona I think is an excellent choreographer, but not for Strictly. If she choreographed routines for pros, she could do her more quirky stuff and know that most of them would pull it off. But Matt is clearly struggling to achieve some of her ideas (in particular last night's acting), and she should realise that and start choreographing to his strengths.
Originally Posted by tangoqueen:
“I do have to give special mention to Anton though, because whether you like Ann being in the competition or not (and I don't) - if indeed by this morning she still IS in it - he has choreographed some very imaginative stuff for her, and I think most pros would have had difficulty in choreographing for Ann - but I think he deserves credit for providing such clever choreography, even if she can't do it!”
“I do have to give special mention to Anton though, because whether you like Ann being in the competition or not (and I don't) - if indeed by this morning she still IS in it - he has choreographed some very imaginative stuff for her, and I think most pros would have had difficulty in choreographing for Ann - but I think he deserves credit for providing such clever choreography, even if she can't do it!”
I kind of disagree with that. There's no denying it's appealing to viewers, but at the same time I think a lot of the other pros have done a much better job of choreographing for older celebs. They might not get the comedy vote, but at least the celebs get to leave the competition feeling as though they've accomplished something.
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“I kind of disagree with that. There's no denying it's appealing to viewers, but at the same time I think a lot of the other pros have done a much better job of choreographing for older celebs. They might not get the comedy vote, but at least the celebs get to leave the competition feeling as though they've accomplished something.”
“I kind of disagree with that. There's no denying it's appealing to viewers, but at the same time I think a lot of the other pros have done a much better job of choreographing for older celebs. They might not get the comedy vote, but at least the celebs get to leave the competition feeling as though they've accomplished something.”
Yeah, it's insulting that we're meant to believe that even despite three months of one to one training Ann literally can't do (or even learn the names of) any proper dance steps. They're pulling a fast one.
Artem - his choreography has been out of this world so far; he's definitely my new favourite pro. His Paso Doble, Argentine Tango, and American Smooth (even though arguably not an American Smooth) were fantastic.
I don't even know if I want to pick one pro, because they've mostly had moments of brilliance coupled with some pretty dire offerings as well.
Overall I think Artem just edges it on consistency. All his ballroom routines have been fantastic, but I think he picked the wrong song for their jive and the choreography suffered in execution as a result. I think James has done some lovely ballroom routines but disliked the jive and Aliona deserves credit for her ingenuity (although I know not many on here see it that way). Natalie has done some lovely ballroom but her Latin choreography hasn't matched it.
I don't think Anton deserves any credit at all to be honest. Yes, he's not got much to work with, but there's basic steps and there's dragging on the floor. One is just about acceptable, the other definitely not in my opinion.
As for Katya and Robin, to round off all the pros who are still in, I'm indifferent to both of their choreography to be honest, I've seen nothing I've really liked apart from Gavin's waltz, but they haven't generally been awful either - Patsy's jive and Gavin's quickstep excepted.
Overall I think Artem just edges it on consistency. All his ballroom routines have been fantastic, but I think he picked the wrong song for their jive and the choreography suffered in execution as a result. I think James has done some lovely ballroom routines but disliked the jive and Aliona deserves credit for her ingenuity (although I know not many on here see it that way). Natalie has done some lovely ballroom but her Latin choreography hasn't matched it.
I don't think Anton deserves any credit at all to be honest. Yes, he's not got much to work with, but there's basic steps and there's dragging on the floor. One is just about acceptable, the other definitely not in my opinion.
As for Katya and Robin, to round off all the pros who are still in, I'm indifferent to both of their choreography to be honest, I've seen nothing I've really liked apart from Gavin's waltz, but they haven't generally been awful either - Patsy's jive and Gavin's quickstep excepted.
Another vote for Artem.
Always manages to bring something fresh and exciting to a routine without needing to be OTT (take note Aliona). He is totally delivering on the promise he made pre-launch, I just hope he agrees to come back next year.
Honourable mentions for Natalie and Anton.
Always manages to bring something fresh and exciting to a routine without needing to be OTT (take note Aliona). He is totally delivering on the promise he made pre-launch, I just hope he agrees to come back next year.
Honourable mentions for Natalie and Anton.
Artem and Natalie are racing for award in my book. I adore and love and admire both of them for their choreography,teaching abilities, sticking up for partner and letting them to have appreciations. Well done both of you.
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“I kind of disagree with that. There's no denying it's appealing to viewers, but at the same time I think a lot of the other pros have done a much better job of choreographing for older celebs. They might not get the comedy vote, but at least the celebs get to leave the competition feeling as though they've accomplished something.”
“I kind of disagree with that. There's no denying it's appealing to viewers, but at the same time I think a lot of the other pros have done a much better job of choreographing for older celebs. They might not get the comedy vote, but at least the celebs get to leave the competition feeling as though they've accomplished something.”
Re the first BIB, that is exactly what I meant.
And the second: and it is only my opinion! other pros have done good jobs in choreographing for older celebs, yes, BUT those other older celebs have actually been willing, and tried without exception (and yes even JS) to do the dances properly, so the pros were able to actually choreograph each dance as it should be.
Why I think Anton deserves credit is because it must be rather soul-destroying to be faced with a "celeb" (and I use that word loosely) who refuses to do most of what each dance is supposed to be.
The fact that he has managed get her to do anything at all is worthy of credit by itself.
Really liking James' choreoraphy this year; loved his waltz especially.
Also liking Natalie, she definately strikes me as being a good choreographer.
Don't really get the whole Artem thing, I actually disliked the AS and salsa.
Not really liking Katya's either.
Also liking Natalie, she definately strikes me as being a good choreographer.
Don't really get the whole Artem thing, I actually disliked the AS and salsa.
Not really liking Katya's either.
Originally Posted by Mistress:
“Yeah, it's insulting that we're meant to believe that even despite three months of one to one training Ann literally can't do (or even learn the names of) any proper dance steps. They're pulling a fast one.”
“Yeah, it's insulting that we're meant to believe that even despite three months of one to one training Ann literally can't do (or even learn the names of) any proper dance steps. They're pulling a fast one.”
Agree it is insulting to other contestants - I don't think that it's because she can't though, rather that she WON'T.
I am not in favour of her being in the competition by any means, but I do think Anton has dealt with her with good humour and done a good job with the limited situation he is in.
Originally Posted by tangoqueen:
“Re the first BIB, that is exactly what I meant.
And the second: and it is only my opinion! other pros have done good jobs in choreographing for older celebs, yes, BUT those other older celebs have actually tried without exception (and yes even JS) to do the dances properly, so the pros were able to actually choreograph each dance as it should be.
Why I think Anton deserves credit is because it must be rather soul-destroying to be faced with a "celeb" (and I use that word loosely) who refuses to do most of what each dance is supposed to be.
The fact that he has managed get her to do anything at all is worthy of credit by itself.”
“Re the first BIB, that is exactly what I meant.
And the second: and it is only my opinion! other pros have done good jobs in choreographing for older celebs, yes, BUT those other older celebs have actually tried without exception (and yes even JS) to do the dances properly, so the pros were able to actually choreograph each dance as it should be.
Why I think Anton deserves credit is because it must be rather soul-destroying to be faced with a "celeb" (and I use that word loosely) who refuses to do most of what each dance is supposed to be.
The fact that he has managed get her to do anything at all is worthy of credit by itself.”
Oh ok, well I still don't entirely agree. I don't think she has refused to do ballroom steps and some of their ballroom- the flying Tango in particular- has been gimmicky rather than any attempt to do some sort of basic routine. I also don't really like the fact that he gurns about her weight and lack of talent during the routine. I don't like Ann, but I still think that is disrespectful.
However I take your point on the latin routines. At least he's getting something together out of that mess.
Artem......brings out the best in Kara, she is always the star of the routine and the one you focus on. He has given her Class. James's ballroom is lovely and the latin comedy routines suite Pamela's personality.
Robin has eased Patsy into more confidend routines but she hasn't the guts of Kara/Pamela so hopefully Robin will prove himself next season. If you have a dancer with potential, you can put great thought and ideas into your choreography however Anton has needed to do the opposite.
One person who works hard is Olga, regardless of her partners ability she is memorable.
Robin has eased Patsy into more confidend routines but she hasn't the guts of Kara/Pamela so hopefully Robin will prove himself next season. If you have a dancer with potential, you can put great thought and ideas into your choreography however Anton has needed to do the opposite.
One person who works hard is Olga, regardless of her partners ability she is memorable.
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“Oh ok, well I still don't entirely agree. I don't think she has refused to do ballroom steps and some of their ballroom- the flying Tango in particular- has been gimmicky rather than any attempt to do some sort of basic routine. I also don't really like the fact that he gurns about her weight and lack of talent during the routine. I don't like Ann, but I still think that is disrespectful.
However I take your point on the latin routines. At least he's getting something together out of that mess.”
“Oh ok, well I still don't entirely agree. I don't think she has refused to do ballroom steps and some of their ballroom- the flying Tango in particular- has been gimmicky rather than any attempt to do some sort of basic routine. I also don't really like the fact that he gurns about her weight and lack of talent during the routine. I don't like Ann, but I still think that is disrespectful.
However I take your point on the latin routines. At least he's getting something together out of that mess.”
I think much of the content of their routines have been gimmicky through necessity - that is the point I am getting at - that it's a surprise he has managed to choreograph anything at all to gain the public's vote with her.
For me, they have been assigned this "idiot" role in the competition, and their popularity only works when they do it i.e. the gimmicky things - when they try to do the dances properly, it is too painful to watch, and doesn't seem as popular with the viewing public.
That's why I gave him commendation because I think it must be quite hard to do that, week after week.
Originally Posted by tangoqueen:
“I think much of the content of their routines have been gimmicky through necessity - that is the point I am getting at - that it's a surprise he has managed to choreograph anything at all to gain the public's vote with her.
For me, they have been assigned this "idiot" role in the competition, and their popularity only works when they do it i.e. the gimmicky things - when they try to do the dances properly, it is too painful to watch, and doesn't seem as popular with the viewing public.
That's why I gave him commendation because I think it must be quite hard to do that, week after week.”
“I think much of the content of their routines have been gimmicky through necessity - that is the point I am getting at - that it's a surprise he has managed to choreograph anything at all to gain the public's vote with her.
For me, they have been assigned this "idiot" role in the competition, and their popularity only works when they do it i.e. the gimmicky things - when they try to do the dances properly, it is too painful to watch, and doesn't seem as popular with the viewing public.
That's why I gave him commendation because I think it must be quite hard to do that, week after week.”
I guess I don't really think it should be about getting the vote at any cost. I'm one of these naive people who still think people sign up to the show because they want to learn a bit of dancing! Though... Ann clearly didn't want to learn any latin, so obviously that's not the case here!
It's not that I don't think Anton has been imaginative, because I do. I also think he's been very patient with Ann, when she has been rude and stubbornly unreceptive to learning. But I don't really like the approach they've used, whatever the reasons for it. So I'd find it hard to put Anton in the 'best choreographer' box for that reason.
Sorry, I guess I'm being a bit of a dahhnce purist today!
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“I guess I don't really think it should be about getting the vote at any cost. I'm one of these naive people who still think people sign up to the show because they want to learn a bit of dancing! Though... Ann clearly didn't want to learn any latin, so obviously that's not the case here!
It's not that I don't think Anton has been imaginative, because I do. I also think he's been very patient with Ann, when she has been rude and stubbornly unreceptive to learning. But I don't really like the approach they've used, whatever the reasons for it. So I'd find it hard to put Anton in the 'best choreographer' box for that reason.
Sorry, I guess I'm being a bit of a dahhnce purist today!”
“I guess I don't really think it should be about getting the vote at any cost. I'm one of these naive people who still think people sign up to the show because they want to learn a bit of dancing! Though... Ann clearly didn't want to learn any latin, so obviously that's not the case here!
It's not that I don't think Anton has been imaginative, because I do. I also think he's been very patient with Ann, when she has been rude and stubbornly unreceptive to learning. But I don't really like the approach they've used, whatever the reasons for it. So I'd find it hard to put Anton in the 'best choreographer' box for that reason.
Sorry, I guess I'm being a bit of a dahhnce purist today!”
that's ok because I am very fiercely one too!Ann for me was taken on solely to provide the "entertainment factor" and is the main reason why Strictly is now just an entertainment show, and no longer a dance competition with entertainment thrown in. It would be nice for the BIB to be the case, but clearly it isn't, this year, sadly.
I don't know if you are the same, but re choreo etc, I am finding it really hard to know HOW to watch the show this year - because I love the traditional way of doing all the dances and over time, I have learned to know what to look for, and what is and is not allowed within each dance.
This year, it seems there are new rules and you can do anything in almost any dance, and under the veil of "entertainment" it seems the judges are overlooking things in dances which in previous years they would have (and actually have) come down on heavily and been extremely critical of e.g. the props, cartwheels (from my own favourite!), backflips etc.........and I have to ask myself now whether I view it as a dance purist, in which case I will be very disappointed in the choreography (this is why I do not enjoy Aliona in particular because for me she represents everything I do not like about the new Strictly in terms of the dances and their content because it's not the "dance purist" way LOL! but that is simply purely my own taste and is no less valid than someone who prefers the current way) or whether I give in and just watch it as a dance - trouble is, this way, I can't always decide what dance it is I am supposed to be watching! Hence the dichotomy.
Originally Posted by tangoqueen:
“Agree it is insulting to other contestants - I don't think that it's because she can't though, rather that she WON'T.
I am not in favour of her being in the competition by any means, but I do think Anton has dealt with her with good humour and done a good job with the limited situation he is in.”
“Agree it is insulting to other contestants - I don't think that it's because she can't though, rather that she WON'T.
I am not in favour of her being in the competition by any means, but I do think Anton has dealt with her with good humour and done a good job with the limited situation he is in.
”
Nah, she can do the basic steps and she has on occasion. Even the latin basics don't have to be raunchy.
They just know that if all they do is genuinely try to dance that no-one will vote, so they pretend it's down to Ann's strict "morals" in order to justify all the titting about. An easy way to court votes, but it's all a story.
Re. tangoqueen and katie_p
I think you're both right on Anton. Assuming she's still in, Anton has done a sterling job. He has obviously choreographed routines that have kept her in. But my feeling is that they are playing the "so bad it's good card" - it is as if they are constantly trying to beat the lowest score for a dance. It really suits them to be bad. And for lots of their Latin in particular, there is very little difference. Most of them can only be told apart by the colour of her costume. So he has either singularly failed to teach her new Latin steps or convince her to do them.
Or, I agree with you both!
I think you're both right on Anton. Assuming she's still in, Anton has done a sterling job. He has obviously choreographed routines that have kept her in. But my feeling is that they are playing the "so bad it's good card" - it is as if they are constantly trying to beat the lowest score for a dance. It really suits them to be bad. And for lots of their Latin in particular, there is very little difference. Most of them can only be told apart by the colour of her costume. So he has either singularly failed to teach her new Latin steps or convince her to do them.
Or, I agree with you both!
Originally Posted by tangoqueen:
“ that's ok because I am very fiercely one too! I don't know if you are the same, but re choreo etc, I am finding it really hard to know HOW to watch the show this year - because I love the traditional way of doing all the dances and over time, I have learned to know what to look for, and what is and is not allowed within each dance.
This year, it seems there are new rules and you can do anything in almost any dance, and under the veil of "entertainment" it seems the judges are overlooking things in dances which in previous years they would have (and actually have) come down on heavily and been extremely critical of e.g. the props, cartwheels (from my own favourite!), backflips etc.........and I have to ask myself now whether I view it as a dance purist, in which case I will be very disappointed in the choreography (this is why I do not enjoy Aliona in particular because for me she represents everything I do not like about the new Strictly in terms of the dances and their content because it's not the "dance purist" way LOL! but that is simply purely my own taste and is no less valid than someone who prefers the current way) or whether I give in and just watch it as a dance - trouble is, this way, I can't always decide what dance it is I am supposed to be watching! Hence the dichotomy.”
“
that's ok because I am very fiercely one too! I don't know if you are the same, but re choreo etc, I am finding it really hard to know HOW to watch the show this year - because I love the traditional way of doing all the dances and over time, I have learned to know what to look for, and what is and is not allowed within each dance.This year, it seems there are new rules and you can do anything in almost any dance, and under the veil of "entertainment" it seems the judges are overlooking things in dances which in previous years they would have (and actually have) come down on heavily and been extremely critical of e.g. the props, cartwheels (from my own favourite!), backflips etc.........and I have to ask myself now whether I view it as a dance purist, in which case I will be very disappointed in the choreography (this is why I do not enjoy Aliona in particular because for me she represents everything I do not like about the new Strictly in terms of the dances and their content because it's not the "dance purist" way LOL! but that is simply purely my own taste and is no less valid than someone who prefers the current way) or whether I give in and just watch it as a dance - trouble is, this way, I can't always decide what dance it is I am supposed to be watching! Hence the dichotomy.”
I think we have the same favourite!
Yes, I agree it has been difficult this year. I'm not a dance purist in the sense that I always root for the best dancer to win- in fact out of seven series, I think I've only been rooting for the best dancer three times. However I am a bit purist in that I don't like the way the show has gone this year- I don't think the props have added much, and I dislike the fact that lifts and other rule breaks are inconsistently penalised. I thought it was nice when lifts were something special you could only do in a couple of dances.
Luckily I don't feel as involved in the show as I have in the past... I will be annoyed if Kara leaves this week (or any week before the final, or before Ann), but I'm not voting for her or watching her ITT interviews, just looking forward to her routines when the show starts.
I think I would say Artem and Natalie edge it for me. I thought Natalie was great last year too though - last year I remember thinking how recognisable a lot of the choreography in her routines were compared to what I'd seen danced in real comps. Actually Artem's jive last night had a lot of recognisable jive basic steps in it. It's refreshing to have a routine not based entirely on the kicks and flicks.
However I think that a lot of the pros have had moments of really good choreography and some really bad moments.
In my opinion, Aliona is one of the weakest choreographers because her dances are rather 'out there' and don't necessarily play to her celebrities strengths. If she was doing some of those dances for another type of dance show say SYTYCD I think they would be fine, but I'm not convinced that the fusion style dances are appropriate for SCD. The idea of the show was to learn ballroom and latin and it complicates the issue further to me to start having elements of contemporary in the routines. That is just my opinion though.
Anton is the one where I have to think about whether he's been a good or bad choreographer. In ballroom where Ann has at least been willing to learn a majority of steps he has managed to choreograph very basic routines, but in latin he has had to think outside the box in order to get any kind of routine together. Not entirely successful in my opinion but he needs credit for trying to do something!
However I think that a lot of the pros have had moments of really good choreography and some really bad moments.
In my opinion, Aliona is one of the weakest choreographers because her dances are rather 'out there' and don't necessarily play to her celebrities strengths. If she was doing some of those dances for another type of dance show say SYTYCD I think they would be fine, but I'm not convinced that the fusion style dances are appropriate for SCD. The idea of the show was to learn ballroom and latin and it complicates the issue further to me to start having elements of contemporary in the routines. That is just my opinion though.
Anton is the one where I have to think about whether he's been a good or bad choreographer. In ballroom where Ann has at least been willing to learn a majority of steps he has managed to choreograph very basic routines, but in latin he has had to think outside the box in order to get any kind of routine together. Not entirely successful in my opinion but he needs credit for trying to do something!
Best Male - Artum what a great addition to the show hope he is back. He and Kara are magic together.
Best Female: Natlie. Gorgous dancer and incredable teacher.
Cannot fault her - adored her and Ricky last year they were robbed.
Then this year she does it again with SCott - disregarding last night.
Best Female: Natlie. Gorgous dancer and incredable teacher.
Cannot fault her - adored her and Ricky last year they were robbed.
Then this year she does it again with SCott - disregarding last night.
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