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A vote for Wagner is a vote for the Matt's of the future


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Old 28-11-2010, 00:19
Lydian
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We all agree the format of XFactor needs to change as its long in the tooth and has become complacent/manipulative/smug - delete as appropriate!

The show needs to embrace talent again and divorce the vested interests of the judges. Consistent voting for Wagner resulting in a top 3 result (ideally a win) will force Cowell to sit up and take note that the public want a proper singing talent show not another Britain's Got Talent joke show. Cowell thinks the public will keep on lapping up whatever he keeps dishing out to them.

But no more. The rise of WagnerMania has shown him there's a huge appetite for change. So, a vote for Wagner is actually a vote for Matt - or rather the Matt's of the future. If Wagner goes now, Cowell wins and the 'song remains the same'.

VOTE FOR WAGNER, VOTE for FUTURE TALENT.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:20
Psychosis
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So a vote for someone who can't sing and belongs on BGT is a vote for talent? Where is this logic coming from? Another solar system?
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:21
Lydian
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So a vote for someone who can't sing and belongs on BGT is a vote for talent? Where is this logic coming from? Another solar system?
Try looking beyond the end of your nose.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:22
BlondeB
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Ha-ha..nice spin. You should be in politics.

The way I see it is the more popular you all make Wagner, the more money you put in Simon's pockets by voting for him, the more LIKELY you are to have more Wagner types in the future....not less.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:23
bridgerton
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We all agree the format of XFactor needs to change as its long in the tooth and has become complacent/manipulative/smug - delete as appropriate!

The show needs to embrace talent again and divorce the vested interests of the judges. Consistent voting for Wagner resulting in a top 3 result (ideally a win) will force Cowell to sit up and take note that the public want a proper singing talent show not another Britain's Got Talent joke show. Cowell thinks the public will keep on lapping up whatever he keeps dishing out to them.

But no more. The rise of WagnerMania has shown him there's a huge appetite for change. So, a vote for Wagner is actually a vote for Matt - or rather the Matt's of the future. If Wagner goes now, Cowell wins and the 'song remains the same'.

VOTE FOR WAGNER, VOTE for FUTURE TALENT.
So what do you reckon the format should be?
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:26
GaryBuseyTeeth
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the more LIKELY you are to have more Wagner types in the future....not less.
and why is that a problem?
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:27
donbon
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Consistent voting for Wagner resulting in a top 3 result (ideally a win) will force Cowell to sit up and take note that the public want a proper singing talent show not another Britain's Got Talent joke show.
Actually it's quite the opposite, The X Factor is seeing huge ratings this year. All that voting for Wagner will achieve is the show will become less and less about talent.

If you want a credible talent show, Vote for talent. If joke acts got no votes and went out week 1. Simon wouldn't bother putting them in the show.

Why do Wagner supporters cling to this idea that they will upset Cowell by doing exactly what he wants them to do.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:29
Lydian
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So what do you reckon the format should be?
er, the clue was in my next sentence. Divorce judges from being mentors and the ridiculous vested interests the programme creates. This is the root of the main problem and why American Idol still works really well, ie talent is showcased - you dont get Wagner's on American Idol live finals. Enough changes could be made to divorce this but still keep away from Fuller's Idol patent. I would also allow the acts to play instruments more (again as Idol is doing). I would also bring back the hotel auditions, not the large live auditions that dont syphon out the bad acts as well as they now have backing tracks and the audience behind just cheers on character acts as they do on BGT.

Answered your question? Vote for Wagner and vote for the desperate changes needed.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:30
LadyHonestswag
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We all agree the format of XFactor needs to change as its long in the tooth and has become complacent/manipulative/smug - delete as appropriate!

The show needs to embrace talent again and divorce the vested interests of the judges. Consistent voting for Wagner resulting in a top 3 result (ideally a win) will force Cowell to sit up and take note that the public want a proper singing talent show not another Britain's Got Talent joke show. Cowell thinks the public will keep on lapping up whatever he keeps dishing out to them.

But no more. The rise of WagnerMania has shown him there's a huge appetite for change. So, a vote for Wagner is actually a vote for Matt - or rather the Matt's of the future. If Wagner goes now, Cowell wins and the 'song remains the same'.

VOTE FOR WAGNER, VOTE for FUTURE TALENT.
totally agree with you 110%, vote Wagner to win , keep voting.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:33
Lydian
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Actually it's quite the opposite, The X Factor is seeing huge ratings this year. All that voting for Wagner will achieve is the show will become less and less about talent.

If you want a credible talent show, Vote for talent. If joke acts got no votes and went out week 1. Simon wouldn't bother putting them in the show.

Why do Wagner supporters cling to this idea that they will upset Cowell by doing exactly what he wants them to do.
Because to be quite frank with you, I'm sick of Cowell running these shows. Its time for a change. A big change. I wish someone like Gary Barlow would launch a rival show that showcased talent. Many of us supporting Wagner are sick to the back teeth of being manipulated and spoonfed hackneyed formats from Cowell. A vote for talent in the current format ensures that Cowell remains in the driving seat nonetheless. At least someone like Wagner doing well might persuade Cowell to move over and focus on the US only...giving us someone new to take over. Thats my hope anyway, had enough of the Cowell years now.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:35
mitacond
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Actually it's quite the opposite, The X Factor is seeing huge ratings this year. All that voting for Wagner will achieve is the show will become less and less about talent.

If you want a credible talent show, Vote for talent. If joke acts got no votes and went out week 1. Simon wouldn't bother putting them in the show.

Why do Wagner supporters cling to this idea that they will upset Cowell by doing exactly what he wants them to do.
Whilst I can fully understand where the 'Wagner' campaigners are coming from I don't like the fact that it hurts other contestants along the way. These contestants are people and its not somethng that is credible. Still one cannot change a mind that has been set on a straight and narrow road one can just let those follow and find out for themselves that nothing is b&w
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:36
LadyHonestswag
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Actually it's quite the opposite, The X Factor is seeing huge ratings this year. All that voting for Wagner will achieve is the show will become less and less about talent.

If you want a credible talent show, Vote for talent. If joke acts got no votes and went out week 1. Simon wouldn't bother putting them in the show.

Why do Wagner supporters cling to this idea that they will upset Cowell by doing exactly what he wants them to do.
you obviously don't get it,so why even try to explain it to you
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:39
Lydian
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While I can fully understand where the 'Wagner' campaigners are coming from I don't like the fact that it hurts other contestants along the way. These contestants are people and its not somethng that is credible. Still one cannot change a mind that has been set on a straight and narrow road one can just let those follow and find out for themselves that nothing is b&w
Thats not right Mitacond at all. The best acts of this year outside Wagner will get to the final 3-4 regardless and the ones the public like will buy their records in the future. After all Wagner is unlikely to affect Matt and 1D - they will get record deals come what may. Rebecca may get one anyway but she's frankly getting more boring as the weeks go on. Look at Diana Vickers, she came 4th and doing well. So dont assume Wagner is hurting the others because he isnt - this is what Cowell wants you to believe. It always mind games with him.

Whats meant for the contestants wont get by them...as they say.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:41
duffsdad
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Whilst I can fully understand where the 'Wagner' campaigners are coming from I don't like the fact that it hurts other contestants along the way. These contestants are people and its not somethng that is credible. Still one cannot change a mind that has been set on a straight and narrow road one can just let those follow and find out for themselves that nothing is b&w
If they are good enough they will have a career whether Wagner wins or not. They ahve been given an amazing platform. It's only those that fear they cant cut it without the winners title that are annoyed he's still there.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:44
donbon
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you obviously don't get it,so why even try to explain it to you
don't worry "I get it" - I just happen to think it's idiotic
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:44
mitacond
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Because to be quite frank with you, I'm sick of Cowell running these shows. Its time for a change. A big change. I wish someone like Gary Barlow would launch a rival show that showcased talent. Many of us supporting Wagner are sick to the back teeth of being manipulated and spoonfed hackneyed formats from Cowell. A vote for talent in the current format ensures that Cowell remains in the driving seat nonetheless. At least someone like Wagner doing well might persuade Cowell to move over and focus on the US only...giving us someone new to take over. Thats my hope anyway, had enough of the Cowell years now.
I am not a ~SC lover by any means and think your idea of another talent show would be fantastic. I however won't put the talent of others on the line just to satisfy my needs to have things the way I want them.I cannot stand the katie situation that annoys me no end. However what right have I to throw the other contestants to the wolves? I would feel dreadful knowing I had done that.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:50
Generalissimo
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So what do you reckon the format should be?
For a start lets have them singing some original songs instead of endless boring ones we have heard a thousand times. That would make it more interesting.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:50
sheff71
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The best change they could make to the show (apart from removing the judges from being mentors too), would be to switch how the voting is done.

On the Saturday night, after the final act has performed, the judges decide on the three poorest acts on the night, and put those three up for the public vote... then the public decide who to ditch from those deemed most worthy to be in trouble, but still with the power to save an eccentric act like Wagner or Jedward, if they wish.

The judges would've given marks out of 10 during the Saturday show, and those three with the lowest overall totals would be up for the chop.

This way, you wouldn't get as much of the moaning about supposedly talented acts going instead of a joke act, as if they were any good they'd have impressed the judges in the first place...
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:51
Coen
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The thought that voting for Wagner might be a vote for the Matts of the future might actually make me consider not voting for Wagner.

(But I will anyway, due to Wagner's awesomeness.)
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:52
Lydian
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I am not a ~SC lover by any means and think your idea of another talent show would be fantastic. I however won't put the talent of others on the line just to satisfy my needs to have things the way I want them.I cannot stand the katie situation that annoys me no end. However what right have I to throw the other contestants to the wolves? I would feel dreadful knowing I had done that.
Yes but we've just explained that the talented contestants arent going to be affected by someone like Wagner doing well. They'll get deals anyway. Even Aiden probably will.

Donbon - you dont seem to understand the depth of anti-manipulative vitriol against Cowell. Sounds like you want status-quo (not the band) and more of the same. I, for one, dont, and for me like many others, Wagner has become a symbol of change. Wagner winning wont create more Wagners because Cowell will be persuaded to change the format to focus on talent, and also importantly reduce the amount of perceived manipulation going on because this is the other huge issue. Its not just about the talent, but stopping the public being treated as mugs within the current format (sing-offs, vested interests, blatant choice of characters over talent at judges houses - eg, Gamu vs Katie).
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:53
mitacond
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If they are good enough they will have a career whether Wagner wins or not. They ahve been given an amazing platform. It's only those that fear they cant cut it without the winners title that are annoyed he's still there.
How do you know what each of those acts needs? Poor Wagner what about him, he will eventually find out the real reason that people voted for him and that is even more dangerous.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:54
bridgerton
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er, the clue was in my next sentence. Divorce judges from being mentors and the ridiculous vested interests the programme creates. This is the root of the main problem and why American Idol still works really well, ie talent is showcased - you dont get Wagner's on American Idol live finals. Enough changes could be made to divorce this but still keep away from Fuller's Idol patent. I would also allow the acts to play instruments more (again as Idol is doing). I would also bring back the hotel auditions, not the large live auditions that dont syphon out the bad acts as well as they now have backing tracks and the audience behind just cheers on character acts as they do on BGT.

Answered your question? Vote for Wagner and vote for the desperate changes needed.
Thanks for that answer. I don't know whether this is still the case but viewing figures for Idol dropped last year, so I think that perhaps that format is getting a little tired too.

I agree about going back to the hotel auditions rather than the big public ones - they are obviously more about the pure voice than the big showy public ones.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:55
mitacond
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The thought that voting for Wagner might be a vote for the Matts of the future might actually make me consider not voting for Wagner.

(But I will anyway, due to Wagner's awesomeness.)
I love this post and as a Matt fan its one of the best posts ever.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:55
Lydian
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The thought that voting for Wagner might be a vote for the Matts of the future might actually make me consider not voting for Wagner.

(But I will anyway, due to Wagner's awesomeness.)
Lol, good...he needs the votes regardless and this thread isnt just saying thats the only reason. 3 reasons for voting for him:

1. He's actually quite likeable and a character/performer - you wonder what he'll do each week (vs. Rebecca...zzzzzzzzz)
2. It'll make Cowell think about nurturing talent better in future
3. It'll make Cowell think twice about the show being so manipulative in the way it works

So, not just about Matts of the future but just wanted to highlight that here and you cant fit all that into the title...lol.
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Old 28-11-2010, 00:57
LadyHonestswag
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don't worry "I get it" - I just happen to think it's idiotic
in your opinion, but then your opinion don't count.
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