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Can a woman ever win Strictly again ?


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Old 29-11-2010, 22:46
Tall Paul
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Men have to lead, women get twice, sometimes three times as many steps which are much harder than the men's steps. As someone who has danced both the male and female steps in classes with different partners at different levels of skill, I think it falls as harder for the women actually, especially in latin. And women go on as much of a 'journey' as the men do, I think to imply otherwise is nonsensical.

In my opinion, the reason men get more votes is because females generally make up most of the audience and tend to vote for who they fancy or they vote for the men because they, like you, labour under the misapprehension that it's harder for the men.
Chuffed you've told me this Tangerine_82. Otherwise I wouldn't have known. However I agree with you 110% on this one.
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:47
Tangerine_82
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Chuffed you've told me this Tangerine_82. Otherwise I wouldn't have known. However I agree with you 110% on this one.
Thank you
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:49
jill1812
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I think it is possible, just incredibly difficult.

To be perfectly honest out of all four male winners we have had, only one of them (Mark) would ever be considered the best dancer in my eyes.
I preferred Mark to Emma, but she and possibly even Louisa were better dancers than Mark.
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:50
dancefever
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It just annoys me that some people choose the prime reason for voting for someone is because they think they're cute or fit, or funny when they are not dancing. I don't mind people voting for people because the dance was entertaining (anne being the big exception because she does not dance at all) because they are voting based upon the dance. But in my personal opinion i would support the best dancer, which this year i think is kara.
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:51
bobajot
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AW to win solves this thread
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:52
Tangerine_82
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I preferred Mark to Emma, but she and possibly even Louisa were better dancers than Mark.
Yes, they were both better than Mark.
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:53
Tall Paul
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AW to win solves this thread
^^^^^ That would be outrageously stupid if she were to win. ^^^^^
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Old 29-11-2010, 22:54
Tall Paul
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Yes, they were both better than Mark.
I actually voted for Mark that series, also I'm a bit of a cricket fan myself.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:00
soulmate61
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Women, like men, due to evolutionary preconditioning, pay more attention to the opposite sex. If more time is lavished on a subject, naturally there will be a better chance to discover something likeable.

Apart from same-sex rivalry, could there be same-sex indifference?
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:00
Tangerine_82
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I actually voted for Mark that series, also I'm a bit of a cricket fan myself.
To be honest, I didn't hotly contest the fact that Mark won that year. I contested that Matt made the final over Emma but eh, what can you do? The reason I didn't mind that Mark and Tom won their respective series was because they at least were very good (especially Tom) and the distance between the best technical dancers and Tom and Mark in their years wasn't very far. In all fairness, Emma and Rachel should have won but I could always understand why they didn't. What I always object to though is when not the first, not the second, not even the third best dancer wins a series - Darren Gough, Chris Hollins - because that is very unfair and goes against the point of Strictly, in my opinion.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:02
Tangerine_82
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Women, like men, due to evolutionary preconditioning, pay more attention to the opposite sex. If more time is lavished on a subject, naturally there will be a better chance to discover something likeable.

Apart from same-sex rivalry, could there be same-sex indifference?
I think because I don't see the world that way, I find it very difficult to understand it when others do. It's not intolerance so much as just not understanding how or why people let themselves be so biased But it could play a part, unfortunately.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:04
Tall Paul
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To be honest, I didn't hotly contest the fact that Mark won that year. I contested that Matt made the final over Emma but eh, what can you do? The reason I didn't mind that Mark and Tom won their respective series was because they at least were very good (especially Tom) and the distance between the best technical dancers and Tom and Mark in their years wasn't very far. In all fairness, Emma and Rachel should have won but I could always understand why they didn't. What I always object to though is when not the first, not the second, not even the third best dancer wins a series - Darren Gough, Chris Hollins - because that is very unfair and goes against the point of Strictly, in my opinion.
At the end of the day mate it's down to whom is the most popular and whom is pulling the most votes in. Mark obviously had the most votes from the 'ockey of the tournament.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:09
jill1812
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Yes, they were both better than Mark.
I actually voted for Mark that series, also I'm a bit of a cricket fan myself.
I was delighted when Mark won, although I never voted for him. I actually expected to loathe him given he's a cricketer.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:16
Tangerine_82
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At the end of the day mate it's down to whom is the most popular and whom is pulling the most votes in. Mark obviously had the most votes from the 'ockey of the tournament.
Of course but winning the public vote doesn't make him the best dancer, which is what I really value.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:17
Tall Paul
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I was delighted when Mark won, although I never voted for him. I actually expected to loathe him given he's a cricketer.
I loved Mark's dancing, you can tell he had the journey and in the end looked like a professional. The showdance he did was amazing and you could tell he had strength in his arms in abundance.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:18
Tall Paul
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Of course but winning the public vote doesn't make him the best dancer, which is what I really value.
Value it too mate.
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Old 29-11-2010, 23:49
soulmate61
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Of course but winning the public vote doesn't make him the best dancer, which is what I really value.
Truly objective benchmarking can only take place in the laboratory holding all conditions constant for all candidates. In a law court elaborate rules of evidence ensure that nobody enjoys unfair presentation.

In Strictly it is suggested that genuinely inexperienced women have a headstart have their male counterparts because of their prior interest in dance and colourful display. If this were so, then men catching up in the later rounds impress viewers, because of their visible journey. If comparison were fair it would only be approximate, in spirit. There would have to be a grey area of personal preference.
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Old 30-11-2010, 00:11
Rikki65
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The only way a woman will win SCD again is if Alesha gets fired, sinks in to obscurity because of her laughably pathetic singing "career", has plastic surgery, changes her name, somehow gets famous again, then gets asked to do SCD.
ooooh, I can taste the bitterness.
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Old 30-11-2010, 02:43
thenetworkbabe
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Looking at the voting and the results for the last two years it seems to me that Strictly in the final stages is inherently biased against women competitors due to the higher proportion of female viewers, who vote for the blokes they fancy the most rather than the best dancers. Gavin Henson can’t have got through on his dancing or even his personality, just his “guns”. The same criticism applies to Chris Hollins, and Darren Gough and Matt Dawson in earlier series.

I’m sure there are women out there who put sexual preferences aside and vote for the best dancer but do you agree with me that women who, with some notable exceptions, are generally better dancers than men don’t get a fair deal in Strictly towards the end of each series.
Its probably a bit more complex. There are probably a variety of male types and stories that can win including the dynamic hunk, the journey towards something more gentle and artistic, the lethario, whatever the opposite of a lethario is called, the schoolboy and the comic.There's probably a few other biases in play too. Gavin to me seems charmless and hopeless as you say, but he's not in the same category as a Darren (who got near to the standard of the best in his year) or Chris who fits two or three of those categories or even Matt who could do at least some things well. The problem is that in recent years the need to be able to dance well on top of the story has declined and as it has the top girls have got fewer votes.

On the opposite side of the equation there's an awful lot of things that seem (pretty randomly) to turn female voters off female dancers and probably some similarities between the females who can win any reality show.

Not sure about this series. Matt seems to have support beyond his marks, but we don't know about Pamela or Kara - or how a 2 top male v 2 top female vote will play out and whether being the only female in the final would help a female win. Its probably going to produce a controversial final regardless as someone very good won't make the final anyway and that may be because of the bias in the vote or varied performances.

If Ann or Gavin knock Pamela Scott or Kara out before the final we will be into a different ballgame - Strictly Come Fooling About.
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Old 30-11-2010, 04:11
Bonnie96
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Looking at the voting and the results for the last two years it seems to me that Strictly in the final stages is inherently biased against women competitors due to the higher proportion of female viewers, who vote for the blokes they fancy the most rather than the best dancers. Gavin Henson can’t have got through on his dancing or even his personality, just his “guns”. The same criticism applies to Chris Hollins, and Darren Gough and Matt Dawson in earlier series.
I hope you are joking - 'fancy' in the same paragraph as Chris, Darren and Matt D?

Seriously though, from what I've seen posted, there is a strong possibility that those who voted for the likes of Zoe Ball and Alesha were in fact voting for Matt C and Ian.

In series 6, I started off wanting Cherie, Rachel and Jodie to do well until Tom and Austin took to the floor, although I still supported Jodie and Cherie until they went.
I didn't find Tom or Austin fanciable but I loved Austin's showmanship, and the 2 partnerships plus they could dance and draw me in with their performances, something that the 2 female finalists never did.

In series 7, I was in Jade's camp until she had to withdraw and then had the luxury of having no favourite (believe me it was bliss!! )

In the lead up to this series, I wanted Kara and Scott to do well and Scott has overtaken Kara but she is still my 2nd choice.
I do like both the pros in the partnerships for their talent as choreographers and Natalie's partnership with Scott.
As in series 6, these 2 couples have the ability to draw me in

So from my own inexperienced (in dance!) perspective, I would say that there is every chance of a female winner again.
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Old 30-11-2010, 07:27
Tangerine_82
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Seriously though, from what I've seen posted, there is a strong possibility that those who voted for the likes of Zoe Ball and Alesha were in fact voting for Matt C and Ian.
Not really. I was the biggest Alesha and Mattesha fan, still am and I can assure you that I don't need a hot or funny man to be in the picture to make me want to vote for a woman to win. I could say that from all I've seen from Austin fans, they all seemed to be fans of Erin that just leaped at the chance to get her in the final, couldn't I?
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Old 30-11-2010, 09:10
BruciesToupe
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See, I just dont think you can ever assume anything or generalise re sexes with SCD. Its about the whole package: personality, likeability, partnership, dances, costumues, 'journey' and skill.

If Jill competed again now even against Ramps, Jackson, Hollins, Chambers, Gethin etc etc, she'd still win...hands down. She just had everything going for her, nothing to do with gender.
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Old 30-11-2010, 09:27
TylerTango
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See, I just dont think you can ever assume anything or generalise re sexes with SCD. Its about the whole package: personality, likeability, partnership, dances, costumues, 'journey' and skill.

If Jill competed again now even against Ramps, Jackson, Hollins, Chambers, Gethin etc etc, she'd still win...hands down. She just had everything going for her, nothing to do with gender.
I don't think so, somehow.
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Old 30-11-2010, 09:29
j4Rose
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I don't think so, somehow.
I don't either.
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Old 30-11-2010, 11:09
Muinimula
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I rewatched Alesha's jive recently and it wasn't very good at all. I think people liked Alesha's outgoing personality, but she is overrated as a dancer. Even she ended up in the bottom two towards the end.
Alesha's jive was only her second dance, and for a second dance, it was pretty darn good. In the grand scheme of Strictly jives, it was decent.

She only ended up in the bottom two that week because they were down to 4 couples and Matt di Angelo forgot his dances and got mega sympathy votes. Otherwise it would have been a Matt/Letitia bottom two.

As we're guaranteed a three-couple final, and I can't believe Gavin will be there, we'll definitely have at least one female celeb left. Let's hope it isn't Ann...
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