I think her jive was mediocre, even for a second dance. It wasn't terrible, but it certainly didn't deserve a high score of 36. Her kicks and flicks were weak and it just looked a bit awkward. In Strictly terms it was decent, but only because most jives have been pretty horrendous! The jive she did in the final wasn't really any better. At least her jive was better than Gethin's, which was severely overmarked.

Agree about Kelly. I saw her on the live tour and she was superb, pity she had to withdraw in 2007, maybe she should be given a second chance on Strictly to finish what she started.

I was the original poster on this subject. I've read through the comments and find it quite hard to draw too many definite conclusions. I think one could perhaps substitute the word "mothering" for "fancying" when it comes to trying to understand when less able male celebs do better than female ones due to the female vote. Also, it seems that women, on their own admission, can be hyper-critical towards their own sex and can tolerate shortcomings in men than they wouldn't accept in their "sisters". There could also be something in one poster’s suggestion that women are just indifferent to their own sex, as most men are to other men.

As a male I have to admit being biased towards women to a certain extent but I can also say that most of my favourites have been pretty good dancers. Over the years I have supported Jill Halfpenny, Zoe Ball, Gabby Logan, Rachel Stevens, Ali Bastian, Kara Tointon and Felicity Kendal, (the latter for entirely the wrong reasons !) but Felicity could actually dance a bit and I was determined to make myself vote for a better dancer had she reached the semi-finals.

In fairness to myself I can also say that in my eyes Ramps and Tom Chambers were worthy winners, and that I would have been pleased if Colin Jackson and Ricky Whittle had also won in their respective years.

It's nonsense to suggest that there's some inherent reason why a woman should not win SCD.

Last week, Jennifer Gray won DWTS!

What's the difference?

Oh absolutely although paradoxally I don't think she was liked enough to have made the final even under optimum conditions - although her AT made well have been awesome enough to be high enough on the judges' leaderboard for her public support not to have mattered.

Actually I think that the win rate for women on DWTS is even worse than that for SCD which actually enhances your arguement - I think Kara could do it this year. I think Pam is too marmite and I can't bear to think of the other female 'contestant' still in it.

I argee actually - I prefered Matt DA's and Gaby's at the time.

DWTS has 11 seasons, with 6 women winners (Kelly, Kristi, Brooke, Shawn, Nicole and Jennifer) and 5 men (Drew, Emit, Apolo, Helio and Donny) although the first 4 men were consecutive wins.

You could, and there's no reason why you shouldn't if that's what you think

Not having watched Alesha's series I only have posts on here to go by and it was an example of one of the many criteria people use for voting for a female celeb other than their dancing ability.

Matthew Cutler was always the DS leading favourite pro dancer by a street. Only Kristina in her honeymoon season came anywhere close. Matthew was not however the golden partner who always ensured safe passage for his celebs. Fans who voted for him in forum polls did not always vote on the phone, possibly because Matthew was so self-effacing. The likeable Martina Hingis was unceremoniously dumped in week 1. Even Matthew's pro partner and ex wife Nicole was let go, and now Matthew himself let go.

No Alesha did not win because of Matthew. She won after parading on ITT her grandmas on both sides of the family, her dog on the father's side, her cat on the mother's side. Oh was there a budgie, a goldfish, a rabbit?

Facetious or wot!

Next you'll tell me the dog's litter of pups made it to a vt!

I know we've concentrated on previous series of Strictly and, to a certain extent, the track record for DWTS, but earlier this year Hayley Tamaddon won Dancing on Ice by a landslide (ITV publish their voting figures eventually and she got something like 85% of the final vote). She was the best skater, of course, but that doesn't guarantee anything in this kind of competition, where people vote for all kinds of reasons.

I guess my point is that, by and large, talent will out. I'm sorry to see the Alesha-bashing in this thread because she was a worthy winner, IMO, and proof that a talented woman can win Strictly.

BTW, I'm a woman and voting for Kara, as are most of the contributers to her appreciation thread.

Yes, I always thought Matt's extreme popularity would carry his celeb but the last two years he was on that was not the case. The female celeb has to be a good dancer or it just doesn't work. I think of how many women love Vincent and it didn't work for him this year and even he wondered why women weren't voting. And Brian went down like fire in his first year and it still did not get Heather to even the quarter finals.

[quote=Lili27;46130395] I think of how many women love Vincent

Seriously? I know Vincent loves Vincent but I've never met another woman who admits to it. I couldn't fancy anyone who's not even as tall as my little girl! Are you sure you're not just believing his hype?

Are you sure you're not and allowing it to put you off?

I love Vincent. Not because he says so, but because he is always a gentleman to his student celeb, ultra patient and he choreograph's wonderful routines to suit his partner's strengths.

I wouldnt want to date the guy or anything, but if I was going on Strictly, I would be crossing my fingers in hope I would be paired with him. (If I were younger it would be Artem, older then Anton ).

Back on topic, I would like to think that Kara can win this year. In my eyes, she is the most worthy.

[quote=tinyangel;46134716]
You haven't visited Vincent's appreciation board. They adore him.

Hayley though doesn't have male opposition that fits into any of the winning types from Biggins to Chris to Darren Gough and she is clearly (far) better than anyone else in her series. Suzanne Shaw can win too by coming from second to first and doing more daring routines . There's a lot of similarities between those two both in terms of ability to perform, origins and CV. Strictly doesn't tend to end in such clear differences and there's not many girls with journey stories or clear leads and no way to win as Suzanne did. Most top SCD females also come from the south rather than the north.

There's also something about audiences. The BBC SCD audience may to be akin to the one watching things like the One Show in the same timeslots (possibly hence support for Matt) or the shows on before or after - but its notable that the same One Show crew fall flat when put on ITV in the morning. Its just not clear how the SCD voting audience relates to those on DOI or X factor or any other. DWTS also has a problem getting its top 3 into the final, but it usually manages to get its top 2 to the last 2 and DOI has a pretty good record of getting its best two to the end too. SCD seems to me to have more of a problem in that it has repeatedly failed to get its top 2 dancers to actually compete against each other at the end - arguably in series 1.3.4.5.6 and 7. Even allowing for years when people were close (series 5 and 6) thats pretty remarkable, and in recent years things have progressed so its been the weaker dancer, who might not have made it on dancing merit, who actually wins.

Judging by this thread why have a competition at all just select the best 3 for the final regardless of whether the public like them. Oh that's what the judges try to do anyway which makes a mockery of a public vote.

The purpose of the show is to find the top 3 dancers for a final, The format means the top 3 need to be consistent, and lucky, to get to the end and one or two places are always open to an improver. The choice is there at the end - which of the best dancers people like most. The final is there for them to showcase what they can now do.

The alternative show has no improvers to challenge because they go early .There are no journey stories as the joke candidates knock out those who are trying and capable of improving. There's less point in voting because good dancer's votes are swamped by the block negative vote, and no point in following journeys because they can end randomly at any time. There's also no point in celebs working hard and concentrating on the dancing because neither wins votes. The result is more part time dancers and everyone concentrating on trying to entertain and match the hopeless cases by adding gimicks - and the result of that is total confusion in the judges as to what they are marking. It all produces a defective, sometimes pointless, competition because the best four don't even make the SF and the best 2 or 3 are not there to compete at the end. The resulting finals are also increasingly ridiculous mismatches - as you end up with a dancer against a clown or hunk - two people doing different things in one competition.

Ultimately the alternative show is pointless because, while there's potential for change and achievement in a show that focuses on ability, you could simply resolve the alternative show on night one. As the comics perform the same act throughout, the hunks are as hunky on day one and the hopeless never improve meaningfully, it would be perfectly possible to pick the winner between them on show one.

So you're admitting that the show is just light entertainment on a Saturday evening with another filler on Sunday. As a dancing competition it is indeed bogus.

Alesha bashing? Some people don't rate her dancing, but that doesn't make them "haters".

Is it not fair to say that a man and a woman win each series?
It's the couple that get named the winners with a glitterball each to keep.

She was good at dancing however at judging she is useless

I'm not sure how you have managed to extrapolate 'haters' from 'Alesha-bashing'. Did I say 'haters'? I was referring to posts like this one, which don't even mention her dancing:


Of course there are plenty of people who don't rate her dancing, or we wouldn't have had a competition. And, of course, everybody is entitled to their opinion. But this thread posed the question 'Can a woman ever win Strictly again?', so it's valid to mention those women who have managed to do so. I don't think it's entirely necessary in that context to re-hash an argument about whether or not they deserved to win - there are already threads to discuss the best and worst winners.

As I recall, Alesha was most popular with the judges and with the voting public, so in that context was a worthy winner. It is therefore valid to compare her to somebody like Rachel Stevens, who was a favourite with the judges but not with the public, so didn't win. And now the question is - can Kara or Pamela, who have both been popular with the judges, win over the public sufficiently to win?

I think Kara or Pam could easily win this year. Not forgetting Ann. Why on earth could a woman not win this?

According to footygirl the girls except for Gavin are not popular on the public vote. Anne is third.