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Is Craig being fair to Gavin? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,648
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Is Craig being fair to Gavin?
Not a regular poster on these forums but something annoyed me on Saturday and I just wanted to know what people on this forum thought.
Gavin has not yet danced well in the the last couple of weeks. Having said that the routine contained moments where he is really good but he has not been able to maintain the level throughout the dance and his not showed enough in the performance to sell the routine In his comments Craig has not offered any constructive comments or pointed out good things Gavin has done. In short he has been plain rude and nasty. His marks of 3 and 4 were just being vindictive rather than providing a fair assessment of the dance. As it happens the slight overmarking of other judges has meant his overall mark and placing are about right. This is not an Ann situation of a joke contestant but someone who does try to produce a decent effort but is maybe not destined to be great dancer. Craig is making no effort to help him and just seems to want to destroy his confidence totally. Do you think Craig has been fair with Gavin? |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,289
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He fancies him - but can't have him?
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#3 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
He fancies him - but can't have him?
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#4 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,394
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While I must admit I do usually love Craig, when it comes to poorer contestants he isn't as good at giving constructive criticism as to those who usually score higher. Possibly because if he started on things to improve, he'd never stop!
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 876
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I don't think Gavin's jive was as awful as Craig made out. It wasn't wonderful, but some sections were very good. It didn't flow very well, and breaking up the dance to run to the judges and do the bum shake then run back again just seemed silly (I have nothing against guys shaking their bums in general, but it broke up the dance and made it look worse than it was). Gavin did a reasonable job with a dance he hated.
Of course, it's possible that Craig was deliberately being nasty in an attempt to get Gavin the sympathy vote? |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,922
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I am a Gavin fan and accept he isnt all that good BUT I agreed with Katya about her comment to Craig that he was writing when Gavin was dancing .....I noticed it myself.....and Craig was rather rude to her I thought.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 28,896
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Craig is the only judge that marks Gavin (or anyone for that matter) properly.
I've felt in the past especially, that other judges have had a separate mark scheme for Gavin where he gets extra points for improvement or cracking a smile! Craig is more objective and marks Gavin relative to the others. And on occasions where he's been a little harsh, one of the other judges has usually compensated by being overly generous (e.g. Quickstep and Cha Cha). |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,920
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I do think that he does mark gavin very harshly compared to say Patsy who often looked clumsy in her dancing to me
Gavin is by no means a natrurall dancer but at times does roduce sme goo d steps he needs to learn to do these all through the dance , Katya to my mind would be beter off tryign to choreograph a simle routine that he can repeat ell done steps in ans so shine more If he does this perhaps Craig may be more impressed |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 21,643
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Quote:
I am a Gavin fan and accept he isnt all that good BUT I agreed with Katya about her comment to Craig that he was writing when Gavin was dancing .....I noticed it myself.....and Craig was rather rude to her I thought.
![]() I was annoyed for a few reasons regarding Gavin on saturday - firstly Craig saying he would give Ann a run for her money - now i know Gavin is not the best dancer in the world but to make any comparison with Ann and any of the other celebrities is just insulting. At least Gavin is really trying to improve Ann is just surviving off her comic routine. Then on the results show watching the judges slagging off Gavin and even Matt backstage while having only sympathy for Scott was out of order. And lastly i just wish Katya would do a simple routine with Gavin and stop with all the props and silly stuff - he was dressed like he was going to do a lindy hop rather than a jive on saturday. He is doing the foxtrot on sat - i'm hopeful for a good routine and even if he goes well it will be on a high
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,920
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Quote:
How did i miss that comment - i may look at it again
![]() I was annoyed for a few reasons regarding Gavin on saturday - firstly Craig saying he would give Ann a run for her money - now i know Gavin is not the best dancer in the world but to make any comparison with Ann and any of the other celebrities is just insulting. At least Gavin is really trying to improve Ann is just surviving off her comic routine. Then on the results show watching the judges slagging off Gavin and even Matt backstage while having only sympathy for Scott was out of order. And lastly i just wish Katya would do a simple routine with Gavin and stop with all the props and silly stuff - he was dressed like he was going to do a lindy hop rather than a jive on saturday. He is doing the foxtrot on sat - i'm hopeful for a good routine and even if he goes well it will be on a high ![]() |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,792
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Craig has consistently been very unpleasant to and about,Gavin. He doesn't give any, constructive criticism. That makes it look personal - which it probably is. There's no excuse for writing notes when someone is dancing if a judge is looking down at the desk for quite some time.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,259
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Quote:
While I must admit I do usually love Craig, when it comes to poorer contestants he isn't as good at giving constructive criticism as to those who usually score higher. Possibly because if he started on things to improve, he'd never stop!
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#13 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Craig does however have enough time to be deliberately and pointlessly insulting .
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#14 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,179
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I think Craig fails to give constructive criticism only when he knows there is no hope. So he does so with Ann and Gavin.
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,751
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Yes, Gavin did have a good section in the middle of that jive, but the rest of it was pretty bloody awful, IMO. The trouble is that we are nine weeks into the competition and Gavin is going backwards where other contestants (bar one) are improving. I don't know what Craig could have said that would be constructive, since nothing said so far has made a blind bit of difference. Going for the comedy angle and wiggling his bum in the judges' faces does rather smack of desperation, hence the comparison with Widdy. Katya does way too much 'faffing abaht' in the choreography, which may be appealing to the public, but doesn't endear the routine to the judges. Well, that's how I see it, anyway. Craig is, erm, direct in his remarks, but that's his role and he is by a long way the most consistent of the panel.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Westish
Posts: 3,157
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Quote:
Yes, Gavin did have a good section in the middle of that jive, but the rest of it was pretty bloody awful, IMO. The trouble is that we are nine weeks into the competition and Gavin is going backwards where other contestants (bar one) are improving. I don't know what Craig could have said that would be constructive, since nothing said so far has made a blind bit of difference. Going for the comedy angle and wiggling his bum in the judges' faces does rather smack of desperation, hence the comparison with Widdy. Katya does way too much 'faffing abaht' in the choreography, which may be appealing to the public, but doesn't endear the routine to the judges. Well, that's how I see it, anyway. Craig is, erm, direct in his remarks, but that's his role and he is by a long way the most consistent of the panel.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,792
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I agree that some of that choreography didn't help at all but I still maintain that Craig has consistently been unecessarily unpleasant, rude and dismissive.
His categorising Gavin as being akin to Ann has caught on as an opinion probably just as his ' floorboards' jibe did. I find it rather sad that Craig is valued partly for his ability to belittle, other people. I think the correct term for that would be ' cheap jibes'. However bad at dancing someone is or isn't, if they are making a tremendous effort, honesty is fine. Bullying, isn't. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,442
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If anything he overmarked him Gavin is just out of his depth. On the otherhand he was better than Scott.
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 660
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Quote:
If anything he overmarked him Gavin is just out of his depth. On the otherhand he was better than Scott.
But Len's comment of "I hated it, WE all hated it" is the one that irked me most. That was a rotten thing to say, and untrue. He sounded nothing like a Head Judge, more like a stroppy kid. And he was the one laughing at Gavin's bum wiggling in front of him. So he hated it a lot then Anyway, they are wanting Gavin out by the looks of things. And if Katya doesn't give Gavin a solid routine - and proper dance steps throughout - he's a gonner ![]() She must'nt crave the attention so. She must let the dancing wow us, not the extras she puts in. It's not enough. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Katya is the choreographer (presumably) and Gavin does what Katya teaches him (presumably). Hope Katya pulls together a good routine for her pupil on Saturday.
when Gavin said that Katya had been ill in the week and he'd had to train with her partner?Nothing had been said about that at all, either on ITT or on the VT's to the best of my knowledge? ![]() Surely, that would have to affect the training/teaching/performance. Not saying any allowances should be made, but it would have been interesting to have known rather than just the 'I don't like the jive' stuff that we had. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Away with the faries
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I've though a couple of times that Craig marks for Gavin were too low. None of his routines have been disasters of the kind that would normally attract a mark like a 3 or a 4. Each dance has had at the very least, one good section. Gavin did say early on when Tess was doing her bit after their performance that he though Craig had a problem with him.
I do wonder if Craig is punishing Gavin for his dancing, rather than making him and I agree that to say Gavin could give Ann a run for her money was insulting. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 660
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Quote:
I've though a couple of times that Craig marks for Gavin were too low. None of his routines have been disasters of the kind that would normally attract a mark like a 3 or a 4. Each dance has had at the very least, one good section. Gavin did say early on when Tess was doing her bit after their performance that he though Craig had a problem with him.
I do wonder if Craig is punishing Gavin for his dancing, rather than making him and I agree that to say Gavin could give Ann a run for her money was insulting. ![]() You see on ITT the way Craig groans when viewing Gavin - not in a good way btw lol. It's like he has no time for him. He's very dismissive. Thinking about it, Craig even re-enacted his 'favourite' dance step of Gavin Jive's, backstage That's so wrong! They attack him for not giving his all, but they seem to delight in mocking him when he tries. Bruno did it with Patsy's AT too. Complete p!sstake. What are the judges playing at this year
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#23 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Was I the only one to be
when Gavin said that Katya had been ill in the week and he'd had to train with her partner?Nothing had been said about that at all, either on ITT or on the VT's to the best of my knowledge? ![]() Surely, that would have to affect the training/teaching/performance. Not saying any allowances should be made, but it would have been interesting to have known rather than just the 'I don't like the jive' stuff that we had. Why they hadn't, if I remember correctly, was because they were both busy. What they were busy doing I don't know because no other explanation was given.
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#24 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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I think a score of 3 was fair for Gavin's jive. It had one good section, but the rest of it was truly awful.
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#25 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I think a score of 3 was fair for Gavin's jive. It had one good section, but the rest of it was truly awful.
I'm no dancer but even I thought about Scott's trippie steps and his partner grabbing him around the neck to get him into position (don't know the official terms) as Scott's pretty much always on the ball.If the judges don't have a clear and unimpeded view of the dancers it's no surprise that they are unable to mark appropriately. I'm surprised none of the judges have recommended the desk should be moved if that's the case. |
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when Gavin said that Katya had been ill in the week and he'd had to train with her partner?